Praying to the Holy Spirit

[Thaddaeus]

I have the Holy Spirit in me and don't you forget that Pastor Keith. When people start leaving the cross and begin to preach the Spirit and not Jesus Christ and Him crucified there is something very queer about that. When someone is in need of salvation through Christ and others try to persuade this person otherwise, there is something very strange about that also. There are those that would like to build a shrine of the Holy Spirit so they can have their own place of worship, that is very strange and off base.

If you want to be around that kind of religious spirit, go right ahead, but it's not for me. The word and the Spirit has taught me better than that and there is nothing edifying about it. Have fun with it Pastor Keith but their is absolutely not a single thing in it that reveals Christ nor the conviction that you have concerning our Lord. I suggest you reread all my posts on this thread and perhaps you will come to your senses and change your tone about blaspheming. If you are a man of God and you have the Spirit you will do the right thing in the grace of God.

Shad do you think that the prophecy of the Gospel was fulfilled at calvary or even on that glorious third day when he arose , or do you think that there is part of the prophecy that has yet to be fulfilled, such as that day that we get to go be with Him, so i am going to say that you are humble enough to admit that all the prophecy has to be done before the prophecy can be called fulfilled even two thirds of it can be done, but unless we get the Whole prophecy, we could not say that it has been fulfilled. so how do we say that the prophecy of Joel which Peter preached at pentecost in acts 2, was fulfilled at pentecost when Joel also prophecises that the sun will be darken and the Moon turned to blood on that notable day that the Lord comes. I don't need to reread and reread your scriptures I preached them and have had them preached to me for 30 years, But I will promise to reread them if you will promise me, to look at one scripture for me? here is the prophecy of joel :


l Joe 2:28And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:Joe 2:29And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.Joe 2:30And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.Joe 2:31The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.Joe 2:32And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

Now here is the one verse I want you to look at, I preached acts 2 the event of pentecost, sunday morning. I have never seen this verse before as I saw it sunday morning and I want you to look at it. as God gave it to me, as I preached. peter preached Jesus and Him crucified, after He said that the disciples were not drunk. and he preached His resurrection, and told them that they were the ones that crucified Him. He told how that God had promised david that the Holy One would come from his seed, and that he would be killed, however That God would raised Him from the dead, Peter saidThat the one they had killed was that Holy One, for they had eye witnessed Him being alive after they had killed Him But In this verse:

Ac 2:33Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

see Peter is saying that the same God that promised That He would send the Messiah, the Saviour Jesus Christ, is the same God that promised that he would send His Holy Ghost, and that they are seeing that promise now. But since the start of this prophecy at pentecost until " The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come." the prophecy has not been fulfilled and thus we are are still in the days that Joel prophecised about, so I ask you My friend in Christ, you believe God when He said He would send the Saviour, why can't You believe him when He said, the He would send His Spirit and pour Him Out on His servant and handmaidens , and And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke?????

 

[VW]

thank you Keith, very strong confirmation.

I despise the tone that has come of this conversation. It is difficult for me to continue with such hostility.

Blessings in Jesus Christ.

 

[shad]

Well what I meant is, using the same logic he is using I can come to the conclusion of the statement above. I am just showing the flawed logic he is using.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for correction... and for instruction in righteousness ... / 2Tim 3:16. The Holy Spirit made sure that we were instructed in the scriptures to worship the Father and His Son but the Spirit never mentions any worship to be directed to Him / John 4:23, Mt 2:2, Heb 1:5,6, Jn 9:38. Neither the Father nor the Son in the scriptures speak instructing us to direct worship toward the Spirit. Jesus had the Spirit and would not worship Satan, only the Father was to be worshiped / Mt 4:10. The apostles after Christ ascended and Pentecost had come never worshiped the Holy Spirit nor did any of the converts in any of the churches. They worshiped God as a result of hearing the word and receiving the Holy Spirit and was directed towards God. So the scriptures provide no instructions to direct any worship toward the Spirit. If you disagree then please show me in the scriptures where we are instructed to do so.

Pastor Keith and others are strict adherents of not adding to the the scriptures, which is not just in Rev 22:18 relating to prophesy but also not adding to His words / Prov 30:5,6. To direct worship to the Holy Spirit has no basis in the inspired words of God, so why take the chance of adding something to God's instruction that is not recorded in the scriptures? And that also goes for anything else that people like to add to the scriptures through a religious spirit or a lack of wisdom and spiritual understanding / Col 1:9. There is no flawed logic as some have presumed, just God's inspired word giving us doctrine and instruction in righteousness and correction to those that like to add to God's inspired word by injecting their own understanding into truth. We are mandated to live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God without leaning on our own understanding which can be darkened through ignorance / Eph 4:18 in both the OT and the NT / Prov 3:5, Deut 8:3, Mt 4:4.

 

[stillearning]

Some of you might get upset with this because you have been taught this it's okay, but it's not okay. A believer that prays to the Holy Spirit does not understand his relationship to the Holy Spirit as a believer nor does he understand why he was given the Holy Spirit when he first believed upon the Son. The believer does not have the Spirit without the Son. The believer should never pray to the Holy Spirit. The believer prays to the Father in the name of the Son with the Holy Spirit's help or in the Spirit when they do not know how to pray / Mt 6:9-14, Jn 14:13, Rom 8;26. Never do we ask the Holy Spirit to forgive us or cleanse us from sin, because it was the plan of the Father that sent His Son to die and shed His blood to satify the Father and provide redemption for us. The Father is the one who instructs the Spirit because it came from Him / Jn 15:26. We pray to the Father in the name of the Son and He directs the Spirit what to do or what not to do for the believer and for man.

The Son taught the disciples to pray to the Father and it did not include praying to the Spirit, even though God is Spirit / Jn 4:24. There is not a single prayer in the scriptures that is directed to the Holy Spirit nor in the name of the Holy Spirit and that includes those that would desire any of the gifts of the Spirit as well. Jesus Christ is also the author and finisher of our faith, not the Holy Spirit / Heb 12:2. We received the Spirit not by asking but by the hearing of faith through the word Gal 6:2. The Spirit came through a promise by faith / Gal 6:14. It was a promise of the Father sent by and through the name of the Son / Lk 24:49, Acts 1:4, 2:33, Jn 14:26, 15:26.

*As a side note and comment, as a Spirit-filled believer we never have to ask God for an anointing or to anoint us when we speak, preach or share the gospel because we have that unction from God within / 1Jn 2:20.

The Holy Spirit can't forgive you because the Son paid for your sins with His blood to satisfy the justice of the Father. The Son offered Himself to God without spot through the help of the eternal Spirit / Heb 9:14. The Holy Spirit can only reveal that truth through the work of the Son and through His word that has been given to set us apart / Jn 17:17, Eph 1:13, 1Thes 2:13, Jm 1:18. The Father forgives us through the blood of His Son that satisfied His justice even before we understood it. The Holy Spirit reveals that truth in us and helps us to understand and obey it, to honor the Son and glorify the Father / 1Pt 1:2, Jn 5:23, Rom 15:6.

I am sorry that you believe folks cannot pray to God. God is the Holy Spirit. The Spirit of God has a Name called Yahoshua or as in the english language Jesus.
God IS a Spirit!
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Job 26:13 By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.
Job 33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.
Isa 40:13 Who hath directed the Spirit of the LORD, or [being] his counsellor hath taught him?
John 4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.
God IS everywhere!
1 Kings 8:27 But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded?
2 Chr 2:6 But who is able to build him an house, seeing the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain him? who [am] I then, that I should build him an house, save only to burn sacrifice before him?
2 Chr 6:18 ¶ But will God in very deed dwell with men on the earth? behold, heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house which I have built!
Psa 139:7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
Psa 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou [art] there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou [art there].
Psa 139:9 [If] I take the wings of the morning, [and] dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;
Psa 139:10 Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.
Jer 23:24 Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD.
Act 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
Act 17:25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
Act 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
Act 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
Eph 1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Jesus’ Father, the Spirit of God, was living within him.
Jhn 10:30 I and [my] Father are one.
Jhn 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father [is] in me, and I in him.
Jhn 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jhn 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father?
Jhn 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Jhn 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I [am] in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
2Cr 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Col 1:19 ¶ For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell;

 

[VW]

Worshiping in the Holy Spirit is the only way to worship. Praying in the Holy Spirit is one of the best, if not the best way to pray. Asking the Holy Spirit to be present, well, if that is a sin, then I guess I am a sinner.

 

[stillearning]

Isa 44:3 For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:
Joe 2:28 ¶ And it shall come to pass afterward, [that] I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
Joe 2:29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and [with] fire:
Mar 1:7 And preached, saying, There cometh one mightier than I after me, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose.
Mar 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Luk 3:16 John answered, saying unto [them] all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
Luk 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
Jhn 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:1 ¶ And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Act 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Act 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Act 2:5 ¶ And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
Act 2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
Act 2:7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
Act 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Act 2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
Act 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
Act 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
Act 2:12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
Act 2:13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
Act 2:14 ¶ But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all [ye] that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
Act 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is [but] the third hour of the day.
Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

 

[machew]

All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for correction... and for instruction in righteousness ... / 2Tim 3:16. The Holy Spirit made sure that we were instructed in the scriptures to worship the Father and His Son but the Spirit never mentions any worship to be directed to Him / John 4:23, Mt 2:2, Heb 1:5,6, Jn 9:38. Neither the Father nor the Son in the scriptures speak instructing us to direct worship toward the Spirit. Jesus had the Spirit and would not worship Satan, only the Father was to be worshiped / Mt 4:10. The apostles after Christ ascended and Pentecost had come never worshiped the Holy Spirit nor did any of the converts in any of the churches. They worshiped God as a result of hearing the word and receiving the Holy Spirit and was directed towards God. So the scriptures provide no instructions to direct any worship toward the Spirit. If you disagree then please show me in the scriptures where we are instructed to do so.

Pastor Keith and others are strict adherents of not adding to the the scriptures, which is not just in Rev 22:18 relating to prophesy but also not adding to His words / Prov 30:5,6. To direct worship to the Holy Spirit has no basis in the inspired words of God, so why take the chance of adding something to God's instruction that is not recorded in the scriptures? And that also goes for anything else that people like to add to the scriptures through a religious spirit or a lack of wisdom and spiritual understanding / Col 1:9. There is no flawed logic as some have presumed, just God's inspired word giving us doctrine and instruction in righteousness and correction to those that like to add to God's inspired word by injecting their own understanding into truth. We are mandated to live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God without leaning on our own understanding which can be darkened through ignorance / Eph 4:18 in both the OT and the NT / Prov 3:5, Deut 8:3, Mt 4:4.

Did you read my first post in response to yours? Please respond to that, not the post relating to my first post. Scripture actually indicates that we should be in two-way communication with the Holy Spirit.

 

[VW]

Did you read my first post in response to yours? Please respond to that, not the post relating to my first post. Scripture actually indicates that we should be in two-way communication with the Holy Spirit.

That is so true! We have the mind of Christ! Why would we not talk to Him? And even more so, to listen to Him.

"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me, and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand."

 

[machew]

That is so true! We have the mind of Christ! Why would we not talk to Him? And even more so, to listen to Him.

"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me, and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand."

Jesus modeled for us perfectly what it would look like to live a life completely reliant on the Holy Spirit, with complete abandonment and surrender to the Father. Jesus willingly gave up His divine abilities during His time on Earth, so that He could show us what the Christian life is supposed to look like. So with that in mind, I wonder how one could substantiate not having intimate relationship with the Holy Spirit.

shad: Before you respond to anything else I post, I'd be interested to see how you respond to post #5 in this thread. Thanks & God Bless!

 

[superdave5221]

This is an interesting topic for which I do not have the answer, and I would like to know for sure. I'm just going to throw a couple of scriptures out there and see what else everyone has to say. I have prayed to Holy Spirit. I hope that is not a sin.

John 15: 26 "When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me.

1 Corinthians 1: 9 God, who has called you into fellowship with his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, is faithful.

2 Corinthians 13: 14 May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.

Fellowship to me seems to imply direct communications.

Romans 8: 26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will.

 

[mpaper345]

hello,

The Holy Spirit is the Father.There is only one God the Father.
God is an omnipresent Spirit.The heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain God.
God is in all and through all.In the Son the man Christ Jesus God manifest all His attributes.In the saints partial attributes.In people who are not with God the ability to repent of their sins.
There is only one God who is an omnipresent Spirit and is the same throughout His omnipresent Spirit with no distinction of persons.When the Bible says that God was manifest in the flesh it means that God manifested all His attributes to the man Christ Jesus His Son and personal human body now a glorified body and the way we will see the invisible God in heaven.
The name of the Father,Son and Holy Ghost is Jesus.In the Old Testament God the Father said that He would reveal a new name to them other than Jehovah.The name of the Son is Jesus.Jesus said the Holy Spirit wouild come in His name Jesus.
Father,Son and Holy Spirit are not 3 Gods but the 3 ways that the one true God has a relationship with His children which are identified by titles.
Father-God is the parent of the saints.Son-God's visible relationship to the saints.Holy Spirit-God's invisible relationship to the saints.It is one God with no distinction of persons that created all things.Manifest all His attributes to His Son the man Christ Jesus.Manifested eternal life and partial atributes to His children by His Spirit.
The Bible says that God calls things that have not yet happened as though they already happened.The Bible says that the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world although we know that it did not happen until 4000 years later.If God has a plan in His mind to happen in the future it is the same as if it already happened.Any attribute to the Son being in the beginning with the Father means that it was a plan of God in His mind for the Son to be born in the future so it was the same as if the Son was already born in the beginning.
There is only one God who is an omnipresent Spirit.Before God created anything He is a Holy Spirit.When He created mankind He became the Father of the saints that would follow Him.The Son is the man Christ Jesus God's personal human body and the visible way the saints will see the invisible God.
There is no trinity.
The Bible says that Mary was conceived by the Holy Spirit.Jesus said He would come back as the comforter who is the Holy Spirit.
There is no trinity.

Matt

 

[machew]

hello,

The Holy Spirit is the Father.There is only one God the Father.
God is an omnipresent Spirit.The heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain God.
God is in all and through all.In the Son the man Christ Jesus God manifest all His attributes.In the saints partial attributes.In people who are not with God the ability to repent of their sins.
There is only one God who is an omnipresent Spirit and is the same throughout His omnipresent Spirit with no distinction of persons.When the Bible says that God was manifest in the flesh it means that God manifested all His attributes to the man Christ Jesus His Son and personal human body now a glorified body and the way we will see the invisible God in heaven.
The name of the Father,Son and Holy Ghost is Jesus.In the Old Testament God the Father said that He would reveal a new name to them other than Jehovah.The name of the Son is Jesus.Jesus said the Holy Spirit wouild come in His name Jesus.
Father,Son and Holy Spirit are not 3 Gods but the 3 ways that the one true God has a relationship with His children which are identified by titles.
Father-God is the parent of the saints.Son-God's visible relationship to the saints.Holy Spirit-God's invisible relationship to the saints.It is one God with no distinction of persons that created all things.Manifest all His attributes to His Son the man Christ Jesus.Manifested eternal life and partial atributes to His children by His Spirit.
The Bible says that God calls things that have not yet happened as though they already happened.The Bible says that the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world although we know that it did not happen until 4000 years later.If God has a plan in His mind to happen in the future it is the same as if it already happened.Any attribute to the Son being in the beginning with the Father means that it was a plan of God in His mind for the Son to be born in the future so it was the same as if the Son was already born in the beginning.
There is only one God who is an omnipresent Spirit.Before God created anything He is a Holy Spirit.When He created mankind He became the Father of the saints that would follow Him.The Son is the man Christ Jesus God's personal human body and the visible way the saints will see the invisible God.
There is no trinity.
The Bible says that Mary was conceived by the Holy Spirit.Jesus said He would come back as the comforter who is the Holy Spirit.
There is no trinity.

Matt

You have an interesting view. Most notably "There is no trinity." I'm not sure how you can substantiate this, seeing that our ancient Apostolic Church Fathers established that there is the trinity in the council of Nicaea in 325 AD. It is not wise to deviate from what these church Fathers established for the church as a whole.

 

[machew]

This is an interesting topic for which I do not have the answer, and I would like to know for sure. I'm just going to throw a couple of scriptures out there and see what else everyone has to say. I have prayed to Holy Spirit. I hope that is not a sin.

John 15: 26 "When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me.

1 Corinthians 1: 9 God, who has called you into fellowship with his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, is faithful.

2 Corinthians 13: 14 May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.

Fellowship to me seems to imply direct communications.

Romans 8: 26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will.

Yep if you read post #5 that I did in this thread. Paul uses the same word for fellowship when he wrote it in Greek in 1 Cor 1:9 and in 2 Cor 13:14. The Greek word he used means intimacy, communion, community, fellowship, joint association, etc. It would be pretty hard to accomplish any of this with the Holy Spirit without 2-way communication.

 

[VW]

Our communication with the Holy Spirit is closer than with any person we know. He knows us, and by that God knows us. There is nothing hidden from Him, not one thing. Even in the beginning, when the earth was void and formless, the Spirit of God was moving above the face of the waters. You could say that He is a searcher, as He searches out things to see what they are of. If we are open to Him, He will show us what He finds out about things. Even the deep things hidden is us. And most especially the deep things of God.

 

[mpaper345]

hello,

The apostolic fathers did not begin in 325 A.D.They began at the day of Pentecost when they received the Spirit and was converted and Peter preached the baptism formula to be in the name of Jesus which Jews,Gentiles and Samaritans were all baptized in the name of Jesus showing that there is no trinity and Jesus is the one true God who is our Father,showed us a visible manifestation of Himself,and gives us eternal life by His Spirit.

Jesus said when He goes to heaven to only ask the Father and He will do it.Jesus said when He goes to heaven ask Him and He will do it.Jesus is the Father.

The Bible says that the Son shall deliver the kingdom up to the Father.The Bible says Jesus will present the kingdom to Himself.Jesus is the Father.

In the Old Testament it says when the Son comes he shall be called the everlasting Father.Jesus is the Father.

God the Father said He would reveal His new name to His people the Jews and said behold it is I that does speak.Jesus is the Father.

The Son must come after the Father or else Son has no meaning.There is no such thing as Father and Son having no beginning because the Son would not be called the Son if He did not have a beginning because no one created Him.
The Bible says that when the Son comes He will be from old from everlasting which means no beginning.Jesus is the Father.

Jesus told the Jews that if they did not believe that He is the Father they would die in their sins.
Topic-Jesus told them that if they did not believe that He was He from the beginning who is God they would die in their sins.
Subject-they did not understand that Jesus was talking about the Father.
Jesus is the Father.

There is only one God with no distinction of persons and the reason the Son the man Christ Jesus has no beginning is because God manifest all His attributes to the man Christ Jesus and the Spirit in the Son is still connected to the omnipresent Spirit of God.The Son is human not a God and the Son is the personal visible body of the only God the Father and the way the saints will see the invisible God the Father.

The Bible says that there is only one throne in heaven and one who sits on that throne.The Bible says it is the throne of God and the Lamb,God in the glorified body of His Son the man Christ Jesus.The visible manifestation of the one true God.

In the Old Testament God said He saved the Jews from the Egyptians by His right hand.
The New Testament says that Jesus is the power and salvation of God.
Jesus said that all power was given to Him in heaven and earth.
The Bible says it is the man Christ Jesus that saved us.
The Bible says that the Son should rule for a certain amount of time then the Son shall submit to the Father that God may be all in all.

The Son is the man Christ Jesus.
God's right hand represents power and salvation.
Jesus being at the right hand of God does not mean He has a throne of His own next to the Father for the Bible says that there is only one throne in heaven and it is the throne of God and the Lamb.
Jesus being at the right hand of God means that God gave Him authority in heaven and earth.
God gave all authority to the man Christ Jesus until a certain point in time.
It is because of the man Christ Jesus we are saved.
It has to take a holy man to save mankind because only a holy man can approach a holy God on mankind's behalf.Only a sinless man can save mankind and make it right for people to live eternally with God.
No man could do this so God the Father manifest all His attributes to the man Christ Jesus and became that holy man.God reconciled sinful mankind in the person of Jesus Christ fully God and fully man in harmony.Everyone that receives the Spirit by doing right is in harmony with God as the man Christ Jesus.
The Bible says that the Holy Spirit shed His blood for us.

The truth.

There is only one God who is a Holy Spirit.When God created people He became the Father of all who follow Him.The Son is the man Christ Jesus and God's visible manifestation to the saints.The Holy Spirit is God's invisible relationship to the saints.

God gave all authority to the man Christ Jesus because we are saved by a sinless man and the Son must rule because He is our salvation until all enemies are conquered then the Son shall submit to the Father that God may be all in all.
The Son having authority is represented as being at the right hand of God not a throne of His own for you cannot seperate the Father from the Son who is together in harmony as God and man.
Jesus said I and My Father are one.He is saying that He is God the Father walking this earth in a human manifestation.
God showed angelic manifestations of Himself in the Old Testament and a human manifestation of Himself to Abraham while the 2 angels in human manifestation went to Sodom and Gomorrah.

God did not send a God the Son to die for our sins but God the Father gave us His own human body as a sacrifice for our sins.

The Catholics said they do not understand why the protestants say that they do not adhere to the Bible when the protestants themselves believe in a trinity in which there is no proof in the Bible for that.

The Bible says we need not that any man should teach us but the Spirit will teach us.Paul said he did not receive the truth from man but from Jesus Christ.

I have read through the Bible and I read the Bible and I am not persuaded by the traditions and falsehood of man and I do not see a trinity.
I pray that you could understand that there is only one God and Jesus is the Father and understand that Father,Son and Holy Spirit are the 3 ways that the one true God has a relationship with His saints which are designated by titles and not 3 Gods in 1.

Matt

 

[VW]

Jesus never called Himself the Father. Never. He said that if we have seen Him, then we have seen the Father. This is not saying that He is the Father. The Holy Spirit convicts the world of righteousness, because Jesus has returned to the Father.

 

[phil36]

An interesting article to read is here below is a small part of it.


"The difference is whom you’re talking to. And I think it is both right and inevitable to pray to all members of the Trinity. Having said that, I think it is normal, because of the way Jesus says it, to talk to the Father in the name of the Son. Because Jesus says, “Whatever you ask the Father in my name, I will give it to you.”
That’s the pattern that Jesus seemed to set up: “My Father is the great giver. I am the mediator between you and my Father. I have died to pay for all the answers to prayer that you will ever get.”
Therefore, the normal way to think about coming to God in order to receive blessing is coming by the Spirit, through the Son, to the Father. That’s just normal.
We should know how the Spirit works to stir us up to pray, how the Son works to purchase all the answers to prayer, and how the Father works as the great originator and giver of all things. And it’s good to know that, because they did it that way together."


Another major verse was pointed out by 'superdave': Romans 8: 26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will.



I think we pray to the Father through the Son by the power of the Spirit. But I'm not an expert of scripture so could be wrong. I wonder how many Scholars are actually on here, given that there is a lot of greek text flying around? That's not to say you can't ask for help from the Holy Spirit etc.


There seems to be a lot of scripture being written without any actual relation to the polemics being put forward, never mind we will never all agree on everything.



anyhow, thats my humble none scholarly input.


Soli Deo Gloria


Phil

 

[MahogonySnail]

A few things to note:

It's wrong to pray to the Holy Spirit in Heaven. The Father is in Heaven and the Son, but the Spirit inside you.

Prayer is the wrong word to use , call it "talking to the Holy Spirit". That's fine because the Spirit is your Helper here on earth and dwells inside you. But don't pray to the Spirit inside you, that should be directed to the Father in Heaven.

It's important to realise the Spirit lives inside you if you are a born again Christian. If you aren't, it's a moot point, but if you are, don't pray to the spirit outside of you or in your room. That is most likely a familiar or demonic spirit. The Spirit does not come and go like a breeze in your room, talk to you and leave so that you have to woo Him back. He should be permanently living in your heart, and always there at a moments notice.

I say this as one who has had the unpleasant experience of demonic spirits pretending or manifesting themselves to me as the Holy Spirit due to this error in judgement on my part. I now know the difference. And don't be fooled, the Spirit doesn't have some kind of powerful force field around him that means no demon can stand to be in his presence, demons can and do and will manifest pretending to be Jesus, the Spirit or even an angel if you entertain it.

Where we direct our prayers to matters. People may inadvertantly be praying to the "great spirit of the sky" if they dont address the Father in heaven. If so then you're praying to the wrong god.

God wants us to pray , to the Father. That's how Christ taught us to pray in the Lord's prayer. No where in scripture is it recorded that anyone prayed to the Spirit.

As a rule it's wrong to pray to the Spirit. Particularly wrong to pray to the Spirit in heaven. But it's ok to talk to the Spirit on earth.

Prayer is about petitioning and asking for things. You don't ask the Spirit for things like clothing, food, etc, you ask the Spirit to help you receive from the Father. The Spirit's role is not to provide but to administer. The Son's role is to intercede and request. The Father's role is to provide. So pray to the Father most of the time, pray to the Son whenever you wish, never pray to the Spirit but talk to the Spirit as your Helper through day to day events.

 

[MahogonySnail]

And similarly, I also am against praying to Jesus inside you. Jesus doesn't live inside you it is the Spirit who lives inside you. Jesus , in case you don't know, has ascended into heaven and is at the right hand of the Father. When you "talk to Jesus", you are really talking to the Spirit, who sends the message up to Jesus in heaven, who then tells the Spirit what to tell you, and the Spirit communicates that to your spirit,soul, mind. You may think you are talking to Jesus directly but you really aren't, you are going via the Spirit. The disciples and the authors of scripture had a very clear understanding that Jesus was in heaven, and the Spirit was on earth. That is why they make such distinctions in their writings , they say "it seemed good to the Spirit and to us", "the Holy Spirit led me", "the Spirit told me". They never say "Jesus in my heart told me", because they know Jesus ascended into heaven, he went up before their very eyes. In that respect, I know of christians, if they are in fact that, who pray to Jesus in their heart, but don't really believe in the Holy Spirit. Yes there are also evil spirits who pretend to be Jesus.

In the spiritual kingdom God has a spiritual order, and things must be done the proper way that God intended and revealed to us.

 

[phil36]

A few things to note:

It's wrong to pray to the Holy Spirit in Heaven. The Father is in Heaven and the Son, but the Spirit inside you.

Prayer is the wrong word to use , call it "talking to the Holy Spirit". That's fine because the Spirit is your Helper here on earth and dwells inside you. But don't pray to the Spirit inside you, that should be directed to the Father in Heaven.

It's important to realise the Spirit lives inside you if you are a born again Christian. If you aren't, it's a moot point, but if you are, don't pray to the spirit outside of you or in your room. That is most likely a familiar or demonic spirit. The Spirit does not come and go like a breeze in your room, talk to you and leave so that you have to woo Him back. He should be permanently living in your heart, and always there at a moments notice.

I say this as one who has had the unpleasant experience of demonic spirits pretending or manifesting themselves to me as the Holy Spirit due to this error in judgement on my part. I now know the difference. And don't be fooled, the Spirit doesn't have some kind of powerful force field around him that means no demon can stand to be in his presence, demons can and do and will manifest pretending to be Jesus, the Spirit or even an angel if you entertain it.

Where we direct our prayers to matters. People may inadvertantly be praying to the "great spirit of the sky" if they dont address the Father in heaven. If so then you're praying to the wrong god.

God wants us to pray , to the Father. That's how Christ taught us to pray in the Lord's prayer. No where in scripture is it recorded that anyone prayed to the Spirit.

As a rule it's wrong to pray to the Spirit. Particularly wrong to pray to the Spirit in heaven. But it's ok to talk to the Spirit on earth.

Prayer is about petitioning and asking for things. You don't ask the Spirit for things like clothing, food, etc, you ask the Spirit to help you receive from the Father. The Spirit's role is not to provide but to administer. The Son's role is to intercede and request. The Father's role is to provide. So pray to the Father most of the time, pray to the Son whenever you wish, never pray to the Spirit but talk to the Spirit as your Helper through day to day events.

Brilliantly put Mahogany a big thumbs up , I havent been on here in ages hows things going?