Be perfect (Matthew 5:43-48)

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MikkoAinasoja

MikkoAinasoja

Senior Member
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Nov 19, 2014
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43. Ye have heard that it was said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy:

44. but I say unto you, love your enemies, and pray for them that persecute you;

45. that ye may be sons of your Father who is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sendeth rain on the just and the unjust.

46. For if ye love them that love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

47. And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the Gentiles the same?

48. Ye therefore shall be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. (Matthew 5:44-48)
 
seed_time_harvest

seed_time_harvest

Senior Member
#2
Dec 9, 2011
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Hello MikkoAinsoja

I would say that in order to be perfect the way our father in heaven is perfect is to first make the cup clean on the inside and we know that only GOD can clean the inside.

What I am saying is you have to be reborn.
 
V

Viligant_Warrior

Guest
#3
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RE: The OP -- more tripe advocating self-salvation. Nothing new here.
 
MikkoAinasoja

MikkoAinasoja

Senior Member
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Nov 19, 2014
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seed_time_harvest said:
Hello MikkoAinsoja

I would say that in order to be perfect the way our father in heaven is perfect is to first make the cup clean on the inside and we know that only GOD can clean the inside.

What I am saying is you have to be reborn.
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The cup will be clean in inside, if we love also our enemy.

We have to bend our selves away from our old selfish, bad nature, with prayers, for God, and of course we have to reborn above, and when we reborn above we do not serve sin anymore, but righteousness.
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
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Apr 7, 2014
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So how many people on here claim to be sinless, without fault or defect, flawless 100% of the time just like God the Father? Are we actually perfect "in that sense?" NO. Matthew 5:48 - Be Perfect - AT Robertson points out - Perfect (teleioi). The word comes from telo, end, goal, limit. Here it is the goal set before us, the absolute standard of our Heavenly Father. The word is used also for relative perfection as of adults compared with children.

So absolute perfection, sinless, without fault or defect for us will not become a reality until we are present with the Lord, but that is the goal to strive for. Yet teleioi is also used to refer to the maturity of an adult, which is the end or aim to which the child points. Thus it denotes those who have attained the full development of innate powers, in contrast to those who are still in the undeveloped state (children). Would we call this relative perfection?

James 1:4 says - But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing.

James 3:2 says - For we all stumble in many things. If anyone does not stumble in word, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle the whole body. Perfect in regards to relative perfection both passages?

James 2:22 says - Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? The NASB says "was perfected," the ESV says "faith was completed by his works."

So depending on how the word "perfect" is used in Scripture, it may refer to "absolute perfection" or "relative perfection?"
 
V

valiant

Senior Member
#7
Mar 22, 2015
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When Jesus told us to be 'perfect (mature/full grown) even as our heavenly Father is perfect' the emphasis in context is on the way in which we are to be 'perfect'. It would be by copying His example of loving all men equally. It was NOT a general injunction to be 'perfect'. In fact none of us has a clue as to what perfection is.
 
peacefulbeliever

peacefulbeliever

Senior Member
#9
Feb 21, 2012
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MikkoAinasoja said:
43. Ye have heard that it was said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy:

44. but I say unto you, love your enemies, and pray for them that persecute you;

45. that ye may be sons of your Father who is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sendeth rain on the just and the unjust.

46. For if ye love them that love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

47. And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the Gentiles the same?

48. Ye therefore shall be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. (Matthew 5:44-48)
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In relationship to how we are to love others . . . love being the context.
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#10
Feb 7, 2015
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The Bible says it plainly. No one is perfect. The only way we are considered "perfect" is because we are "in" the only one who is perfect.
 
V

Viligant_Warrior

Guest
#11
#11
MikkoAinasoja said:
What you mean by that?

Isn't those words are spoken by our Lord?
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Lifted out of context and stripped of their meaning. "Proof-texting" through abuse, misuse, and misleading citation. In other words, lies.

Like I said, nothing new here.
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#12
Apr 7, 2014
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I've seen people abuse and misuse the words of Jesus "go and sin no more" in John 8:11 to teach sinless perfection. Jesus was telling her to go and leave her life of sin. She had been practicing adultery. I don't believe that sinless perfection is being taught here. Jesus cannot compromise his perfect holy standard, so of course He is not going to say, "go and just sin a little bit."
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#14
#14
Mik. How about you get a translation of the Bible that you can read and understand? The KJV just isn't cutting it for you. For realz.
 
MikkoAinasoja

MikkoAinasoja

Senior Member
#15
Nov 19, 2014
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seed_time_harvest said:
But which one comes first
Salvation or sanctification?

Before you give your reply please give me a yes or no answer to that question :)
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I do not think that I am saved yet.

The run is on, and the finish is dead, and after that our Lord will give me according to my lived life.
 
MikkoAinasoja

MikkoAinasoja

Senior Member
#16
Nov 19, 2014
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Willie-T said:
The Bible says it plainly. No one is perfect. The only way we are considered "perfect" is because we are "in" the only one who is perfect.
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We have to strive to be a perfect, it has to be our aim.

Our dear brother John writes, that perfect love cast away fear, so clearly he says also, that the love of us has to be come perfect.

This kind of perfection we should achieve.

And example, we can not do sin, and invoke our Lord's perfection, because if do sin, we are servants of sin.
 
MikkoAinasoja

MikkoAinasoja

Senior Member
#17
Nov 19, 2014
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Tintin said:
Mik. How about you get a translation of the Bible that you can read and understand? The KJV just isn't cutting it for you. For realz.
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Do you want to explain your self?
 
MikkoAinasoja

MikkoAinasoja

Senior Member
#18
Nov 19, 2014
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Viligant_Warrior said:
Lifted out of context and stripped of their meaning. "Proof-texting" through abuse, misuse, and misleading citation. In other words, lies.

Like I said, nothing new here.
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You thoughts do not make sense to me.
 
Galatians2-20

Galatians2-20

Senior Member
#20
Mar 17, 2013
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valiant said:
When Jesus told us to be 'perfect (mature/full grown) even as our heavenly Father is perfect' the emphasis in context is on the way in which we are to be 'perfect'. It would be by copying His example of loving all men equally. It was NOT a general injunction to be 'perfect'. In fact none of us has a clue as to what perfection is.
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Agreed. In many cases when the word "perfect" is used in scripture, it is refering to a state of humility and complete reliance on God, not sinlessness. Keep in mind that the author of Hebrews declared several Old Testament saints as perfect who were far from sinless.

Unfortunately, I have heard the word "perfect and "perfection" abused by both "works" & "grace" camps, so much so that when the word is used many tuck tail & run away. However, biblical perfection is nothing to fear much less ignore. In my opinion, both camps should refrain from using the word because, in most cases, neither seem to know what they are talking about when using it.

 
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