Jesus´ brothers.

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Jesus4ever

Jesus4ever

Senior Member
#1
May 18, 2015
783
19
18
#1
Dear brethren,

First of all, I do not intend by any means, to create any kind of dissension with this thread. Please, take this in account.

Yesterday I was with a good friend of mine. He´s catholic, knows the Bible very well, and in spite of that, we talk very much about God. Of course we do not agree about everything, but we respect each other´s opinions and beliefs.

So, yesterday, I showed him several books (John MacArthur´s "One perfect life" and Max Lucado "Experience the Hearth of Jesus"). However, I showed also a (catholic) Bible I bought many years ago, because I wanted to see his opinion regarding Mary´s treatment in Luke. Basically, she gets a divine treatment, as is written "Her", "You", etc. In his opinion, that is merely due a highlight of Mary´s importance, not to make her to at God´s level. Still, he did not think it was the best thing to do, as he agreed it could give the wrong impression of her "non deity".

But anyway, at some point, we started to talk about Bible references to Jesus brothers. According to his study of several study Bibles (mainly Jerusalem), the terms "brothers" mean relatives, and that James and Joseph were sons of Mary, sister of His mother. That is, that James and Joseph were Jesus´cousins and not His brothers.


Now, what´s your Biblical interpretation?


God bless you!
 
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3

3Scoreand10

Guest
#2
#2
It is obvious from the Word that Mary and Joseph had several children AFTER Jesus was born.
So Jesus had half brothers and sisters.
Mary did not remain a virgin.
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#3
Sep 4, 2013
30,195
6,538
113
#3
3Scoreand10 said:
It is obvious from the Word that Mary and Joseph had several children AFTER Jesus was born.
So Jesus had half brothers and sisters.
Mary did not remain a virgin.
Click to expand...
Agreed. James (the Epistle of James) is believed to have been the brother of Christ. I can understand some confusion about this given what occurred at the cross when Jesus spoke to Mary and Peter (believe it was Peter, have to look it up to be sure) and charged Peter to take care of and provide for Mary. This was a custom (as I understand it that was usually done by blood relatives. So, there could be some confusion I suppose.
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#4
Sep 4, 2013
30,195
6,538
113
#4
Ok, does not say it was Peter.........so...............

John 19:25) 25 .) Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.
26 .) When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!
27 .) Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#5
#5
Jesus4ever said:
Dear brethren,

First of all, I do not intend by any means, to create any kind of dissension with this thread. Please, take this in account.

Yesterday I was with a good friend of mine. He´s catholic, knows the Bible very well, and in spite of that, we talk very much about God. Of course we do not agree about everything, but we respect each other´s opinions and beliefs.

So, yesterday, I showed him several books (John MacArthur´s "One perfect life" and Max Lucado "Experience the Hearth of Jesus"). However, I showed also a (catholic) Bible I bought many years ago, because I wanted to see his opinion regarding Mary´s treatment in Luke. Basically, she gets a divine treatment, as is written "Her", "You", etc. In his opinion, that is merely due a highlight of Mary´s importance, not to make her to at God´s level. Still, he did not think it was the best thing to do, as he agreed it could give the wrong impression of her "non deity".

But anyway, at some point, we started to talk about Bible references to Jesus brothers. According to his study of several study Bibles (mainly Jerusalem), the terms "brothers" mean relatives, and that James and Joseph were sons of Mary, sister of His mother. That is, that James and Joseph were Jesus´cousins and not His brothers.


Now, what´s your Biblical interpretation?


God bless you!
Click to expand...
It's a classic example of the development of bad theology. In order to preserve the errant premise of Mary's perpetual virginity it is, of course, necessary to try to explain away the Bible's assertion that Jesus had brothers.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#6
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
3,650
113
#6
Mark 6:3 (KJV) Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

Word twisting to believe otherwise.
 
D

didymos

Guest
#7
#7
Jesus4ever said:
...That is, that James and Joseph were Jesus´cousins and not His brothers.


Now, what´s your Biblical interpretation?....
Click to expand...
Whoever does God’s will is my brother and sister and mother. (Mark 3: 35 / NIV)
 
AceMichaels

AceMichaels

Banned
#8
Aug 21, 2015
196
1
0
#8
They were his cousins. If they were brothers, they would have been at the foot of the cross with Mary.
 
AceMichaels

AceMichaels

Banned
#9
Aug 21, 2015
196
1
0
#9
The same word is used to describe Abraham and Lot and we know they are not brothers. Same word describes Jesus relatives.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#10
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
3,650
113
#10
AceMichaels said:
They were his cousins. If they were brothers, they would have been at the foot of the cross with Mary.
Click to expand...
Rome's propaganda.

Luke 1:36 (KJV) And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.
Click to expand...
 
AceMichaels

AceMichaels

Banned
#11
Aug 21, 2015
196
1
0
#11
I know there is a strong anti Catholic bias here, but you can't make up stuff to disprove them
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#12
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
3,650
113
#12
AceMichaels said:
They were his cousins. If they were brothers, they would have been at the foot of the cross with Mary.
Click to expand...
Baloney.
Suggenēs = cousin
Adelphos = brother
Adelphēs = sister

Take the Roman propaganda elsewhere.

Luke 1:36 (KJV) And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.
Click to expand...
Mark 6:3 (KJV) Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.
Click to expand...
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#13
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
3,650
113
#13
AceMichaels said:
I know there is a strong anti Catholic bias here, but you can't make up stuff to disprove them
Click to expand...
No, Rather there has been a strong Roman Catholic brainwashing on this topic here, and they do make up stuff outside Scripture to pad the heretical pet doctrines like the Perpetual Virginity of Mary. Hogwash.
 
AceMichaels

AceMichaels

Banned
#14
Aug 21, 2015
196
1
0
#14
Ok, yall are too passionate in this! I gave my two cents.
 
AceMichaels

AceMichaels

Banned
#15
Aug 21, 2015
196
1
0
#15
There has never been a good answer for me as to why Jesus's "family" abandoned him during his ministry. I finally got my answer. There was no family. It was Jesus and Mary and that's it. We don't know when Joseph died, but we know it was before Jesus ministry. I find it hard to believe his "brothers and sisters " did not follow him in his ministry as his mother did.
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
#16
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
113
#16
Greetings Jesus4ever,

Though scripture is clear that Mary and Joseph did have other children. There is another verse that cannot be distorted or circumvented which many just read over:

"When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. But he did not consummate their marriage until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus."

That little word "until" says it all, which means is used to indicate the time when something will happen, become true, etc., once a condition has been met, For example, "I can't ride my bike 'until' I fix the flat." Therefore, once the flat is fixed, I can then ride my bike. In the scripture above when it says "He did not consummate their marriage 'until' she gave birth to a son," it infers that once she gave birth to her son, then once that condition had been met, then they consummated the marriage.

Besides this, it would be ridiculous to think that every time Mary and her offspring are mentioned that it is always referring to cousins or some other relative. For example, regarding the following Scripture:

"Isn't this the carpenter's son? Isn't his mother's name Mary, and aren't his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas?"

In the verse above, notice that it starts off with the husband Joseph, then mentions his mother, Mary. In keeping with the context of the verse, it would be grammatically improper to then identify James, Joseph, Simon and Judas as cousins or them as being other relatives. The point of the verse is that, here is Jesus, that kid who grew up in our neighborhood and played with our kids and whose father, mother, brothers and sisters we all know and yet he is performing these miraculous signs! It is only because of ex-cathedra that the teaching of Mary as a perpetual virgin exists. ex-cathedra meaning "spoken from the chair." In other words, whatever has been spoken by any pope is dogma. And since Mary has been deemed a "perpetual virgin" by popes and Roman councils, then that cannot be undone.


Joseph and Mary clearly had other son's and daughters. Hope this helps.

Blessings in Christ
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#17
#17
Ahwatukee said:
Greetings Jesus4ever,

Though scripture is clear that Mary and Joseph did have other children. There is another verse that cannot be distorted or circumvented which many just read over:

"When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. But he did not consummate their marriage until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus."

That little word "until" says it all, which means is used to indicate the time when something will happen, become true, etc., once a condition has been met, For example, "I can't ride my bike 'until' I fix the flat." Therefore, once the flat is fixed, I can then ride my bike. In the scripture above when it says "He did not consummate their marriage 'until' she gave birth to a son," it infers that once she gave birth to her son, then once that condition had been met, then they consummated the marriage.

Besides this, it would be ridiculous to think that every time Mary and her offspring are mentioned that it is always referring to cousins or some other relative. For example, regarding the following Scripture:

"Isn't this the carpenter's son? Isn't his mother's name Mary, and aren't his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas?"

In the verse above, notice that it starts off with the husband Joseph, then mentions his mother, Mary. In keeping with the context of the verse, it would be grammatically improper to then identify James, Joseph, Simon and Judas as cousins or them as being other relatives. The point of the verse is that, here is Jesus, that kid who grew up in our neighborhood and played with our kids and whose father, mother, brothers and sisters we all know and yet he is performing these miraculous signs! It is only because of ex-cathedra that the teaching of Mary as a perpetual virgin exists. ex-cathedra meaning "spoken from the chair." In other words, whatever has been spoken by any pope is dogma. And since Mary has been deemed a "perpetual virgin" by popes and Roman councils, then that cannot be undone.


Joseph and Mary clearly had other son's and daughters. Hope this helps.

Blessings in Christ
Click to expand...


Absolutely right and well written.Thank you for sharing.
 
AceMichaels

AceMichaels

Banned
#18
Aug 21, 2015
196
1
0
#18
Ok, i understand now. I won't participate in slandering Catholics
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#19
#19
AceMichaels said:
Ok, i understand now. I won't participate in slandering Catholics
Click to expand...


The teaching that Jesus had no brothers is wrong according to the Bible.Catholics teach against that.To say their teaching is wrong is not slandering anyone,it is stating a fact.It is a false doctrine,simple as that.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#20
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
3,650
113
#20
AceMichaels said:
Ok, i understand now. I won't participate in slandering Catholics
Click to expand...
I didn't see any slandering going on.
Why don't you present Scriptural proof for your case and we'll take a look at it...after all, this is Bible Discussion Forum not Church Tradition Forum.
 
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