The words of "others"

[elf3]

During many discussions here on CC someone will quote something said by someone else. Many times these quotes come from well known Theologians, Biblical Scholars or Apologists. Most of the time within 2 or 3 posts someone else will say something like "You need to stop following "so and so" and start reading the Bible". It is quite ironic because that same person will end up quoting someone else at a later point. C. H. Spurgeon had this to say in response to these types of "attacks"; "It seems quite odd, that certain men who talk so much of what the Holy Spirit reveals to themselves, should think so little of what He has revealed to others.".

God has given us a great "gift" in giving us His Word in written form so that we may study Him and grow closer to Him. He has also given us another "gift" which we all too often "blow off to the wind". God has given some people the gift of teaching. Ephesians 4:11-12 "And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ.". There are a few passages in Scripture which can be hard to understand for the "average lay person" so we must turn to these teachers which God has appointed for understanding. Peter even mentions this fact in 2 Peter when mentioning Paul's writings. 2 Peter 3:15,16 "-as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, has written to you, as also in his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of Scripture.".

Upon any study of God's Word we are to pray to the Holy Spirit for understanding (Pslams 119:34; Proverbs 3:5). If after this we are still having problems understanding, God actually tells us that He has appointed teachers to help us understand (refer to Eph 4:11-12).

God's Word should be first in our study but do not say "God cannot help me understand through the words of others". The Holy Spirit will teach you but sometimes He will use the words of others to help you understand. If we completely dismiss what others might have to say then we should delete Eph 4:11-12 from our Bibles.

In my study of God's Word the Holy Spirit has directed me to what someone else has said. Does this mean I follow that "other" person? Or would this mean that the Holy Spirit has directed me to a teacher appointed by God?

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

i totally agree with this!

 

[posthuman]

i totally agree with this!

you need to stop following elf3!

hahaha

if the Lord hadn't meant to use others to help us, and to use us to help others, we would have been created alone. i agree too.

 

[lihle]

I also agree,

 

[MadParrotWoman]

During many discussions here on CC someone will quote something said by someone else. Many times these quotes come from well known Theologians, Biblical Scholars or Apologists. Most of the time within 2 or 3 posts someone else will say something like "You need to stop following "so and so" and start reading the Bible". It is quite ironic because that same person will end up quoting someone else at a later point. C. H. Spurgeon had this to say in response to these types of "attacks"; "It seems quite odd, that certain men who talk so much of what the Holy Spirit reveals to themselves, should think so little of what He has revealed to others.".

God has given us a great "gift" in giving us His Word in written form so that we may study Him and grow closer to Him. He has also given us another "gift" which we all too often "blow off to the wind". God has given some people the gift of teaching. Ephesians 4:11-12 "And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ.". There are a few passages in Scripture which can be hard to understand for the "average lay person" so we must turn to these teachers which God has appointed for understanding. Peter even mentions this fact in 2 Peter when mentioning Paul's writings. 2 Peter 3:15,16 "-as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, has written to you, as also in his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of Scripture.".

Upon any study of God's Word we are to pray to the Holy Spirit for understanding (Pslams 119:34; Proverbs 3:5). If after this we are still having problems understanding, God actually tells us that He has appointed teachers to help us understand (refer to Eph 4:11-12).

God's Word should be first in our study but do not say "God cannot help me understand through the words of others". The Holy Spirit will teach you but sometimes He will use the words of others to help you understand. If we completely dismiss what others might have to say then we should delete Eph 4:11-12 from our Bibles.

In my study of God's Word the Holy Spirit has directed me to what someone else has said. Does this mean I follow that "other" person? Or would this mean that the Holy Spirit has directed me to a teacher appointed by God?

How very observant of you elfie boy lol, yes they do.

You know reading and talking to others is paramount in our Christian walk. I've lost count of how many times I have been in Bible study and someone else will have a take on a Bible passage I hadn't even considered. There is wisdom in listening to others, of course it's always a good thing to then return to scripture and pray for understanding - as you rightly said prayer should always prequel readings and study.

 

[convallaria]

During many discussions here on CC someone will quote something said by someone else. Many times these quotes come from well known Theologians, Biblical Scholars or Apologists. Most of the time within 2 or 3 posts someone else will say something like "You need to stop following "so and so" and start reading the Bible". It is quite ironic because that same person will end up quoting someone else at a later point. C. H. Spurgeon had this to say in response to these types of "attacks"; "It seems quite odd, that certain men who talk so much of what the Holy Spirit reveals to themselves, should think so little of what He has revealed to others.".

God has given us a great "gift" in giving us His Word in written form so that we may study Him and grow closer to Him. He has also given us another "gift" which we all too often "blow off to the wind". God has given some people the gift of teaching. Ephesians 4:11-12 "And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ.". There are a few passages in Scripture which can be hard to understand for the "average lay person" so we must turn to these teachers which God has appointed for understanding. Peter even mentions this fact in 2 Peter when mentioning Paul's writings. 2 Peter 3:15,16 "-as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, has written to you, as also in his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of Scripture.".

Upon any study of God's Word we are to pray to the Holy Spirit for understanding (Pslams 119:34; Proverbs 3:5). If after this we are still having problems understanding, God actually tells us that He has appointed teachers to help us understand (refer to Eph 4:11-12).

God's Word should be first in our study but do not say "God cannot help me understand through the words of others". The Holy Spirit will teach you but sometimes He will use the words of others to help you understand. If we completely dismiss what others might have to say then we should delete Eph 4:11-12 from our Bibles.

In my study of God's Word the Holy Spirit has directed me to what someone else has said. Does this mean I follow that "other" person? Or would this mean that the Holy Spirit has directed me to a teacher appointed by God?

I truly feel we have largely ignored the ministry of the teacher in the body of Christ. What things these people teach is not the wisdom or interpretaion of man, but the truth of God by revelation. There are many who consider themselves to be teachers by worldly standards: they can hold a classroom's interest and speak scriptures that they have learned and convincingly give personal, but human interpretation of such things as they have read.

But the revelation of God moves in a different manner:

1 Cor 2: 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.


13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


When a true teacher of God teaches, those that are born again and not blinded by false doctrine recognise its truth immediately. One aspect of such teaching is that it doesn't "tickle itching ears" and so it can seem like a blunt stick. But if a blunt stick will pull us out of the quagmire of false teaching and ineffective ministry etc., then give me the blunt stick every time.

We really really need teachers called by God.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

Of course, the Bible also repeatedly warns CHRISTIANS in relation to such things as "false teachers", "false brethren", "wolves in sheep's clothing", "false apostles", etc., etc., etc., so we still ultimately need to prove everything that we hear or read according to the rightly divided Word of God. After all, the "pope" is a "well known theologian", isn't he? Ought we to follow him? Not on our lives and the same could rightly be said of many Protestant "well known theologians". Being "well known" means nothing. In the end, it is truth that matters and our adherence to the same.

 

[notuptome]

Well it's called discipleship. Each helps another by sharing what the Lord has given them from the word of God and through their life experiences.

A believer can be enriched by the fellowship of another who has walked with the Lord for many years. Sharing how the Lord has ministered in the life of a mature Christian can be very encouraging to a young baby in Christ. Of course it must be biblical but some things can only be understood through the passage of time.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[elf3]

Of course the Bible warns us to be wary of false teachers. But just because of this warning by God we cannot just disregaurd every teacher. We are to proof everything someone says against the Word of God. When we hear of some new rising "teacher" we should research them and their teaching against God's Word. We should do that with any "teacher" old or new. If they are given by God then their teaching will be directly in line with the Word of God. We should also not just follow the teaching of just one "teacher".

For example when I study and I hit a particular difficult passage I will look to God's Word first in 4 or 5 different translations. If I am still not understanding I will look up what 4 or 5 different teachers have said on the subject. Through this whole process I wil be praying for understanding.

We also cannot just throw away what someone says because we don't agree with them. If they agree with God's Word then maybe it is us who are wrong in our thinking. We all too often enter Gods Word with "blinders" thus disregaurding those approved by God as teachers. We are such a prideful creation that we wil actually dismiss another's teaching because "we are right they are wrong". Refer back to what I quoted by C. H. Spurgeon on this in the OP.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

I read Spurgeon's quote and...? Spurgeon was wrong about certain things himself. Who said that people disregard what the Holy Spirit reveals to others? Spurgeon? Everybody claims that what's been revealed to them was from the Holy Spirit and oftentimes the same goes totally against what the Holy Spirit actually inspired in the scriptures. There is a spirit of truth and a spirit of error (I John 4:6).

 

[elf3]

I read Spurgeon's quote and...? Spurgeon was wrong about certain things himself. Who said that people disregard what the Holy Spirit reveals to others? Spurgeon? Everybody claims that what's been revealed to them was from the Holy Spirit and oftentimes the same goes totally against what the Holy Spirit actually inspired in the scriptures. There is a spirit of truth and a spirit of error (I John 4:6).

This is where prayer to the Holy Spirit for guidance and understanding comes into play. And you have just proven my main point in this forum. Because the quote came from Spurgeon you fight against it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Spurgeons quote. You took the quote by Spurgeon and made it say "everyone" when in fact he never says "everyone" he actually says "certain men".

So yes "certain men" disregaurd what the Holy Spirit reveals to others.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

This is where prayer to the Holy Spirit for guidance and understanding comes into play. And you have just proven my main point in this forum. Because the quote came from Spurgeon you fight against it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Spurgeons quote. You took the quote by Spurgeon and made it say "everyone" when in fact he never says "everyone" he actually says "certain men".

So yes "certain men" disregaurd what the Holy Spirit reveals to others.

Once again, you cannot even rightly divide what I've said. I said "people". You said that I said "everyone". Learn how to read. Incidentally, I've learned a thing or two from Spurgeon over the years, so you're way off by implying that I automatically reject Spurgeon's quotes.

 

[oldthennew]

personally, we both love to listen to what others have learned - there are so many aspects of Scripture
that the depths and riches are beneficial to each of us at different times....we certainly cannot
comprehend all knowledge at once nor do we immediately know how to fully un-lock our Spiritual Gifts -
and we will certainly stumble and have misconceptions as we grow and learn.....

who of us would not desire to have the perfect understanding of Luke? But, our journey is
a day-by-day, encounter-by-encounter experience and the Holy Spirit will allow us to
glean what we must from whom God puts us in contact with...these encounters can be
very exciting and illuminating to say the least.....the Scripture gives us ample tools and filters,
such as, 'there will be many false teachers', but we definitely LEARN from them also.....

Christ knew all men and we must also seek to know about each other, whether some are
behaving in a worldly/carnal way or a more humble, Spiritual way, we will hear the contents of the heart
be emptied through the mouth.....our position is to discern the words, whether they be good
or whether they be evil....

 

[KennethC]

During many discussions here on CC someone will quote something said by someone else. Many times these quotes come from well known Theologians, Biblical Scholars or Apologists. Most of the time within 2 or 3 posts someone else will say something like "You need to stop following "so and so" and start reading the Bible". It is quite ironic because that same person will end up quoting someone else at a later point. C. H. Spurgeon had this to say in response to these types of "attacks"; "It seems quite odd, that certain men who talk so much of what the Holy Spirit reveals to themselves, should think so little of what He has revealed to others.".

God has given us a great "gift" in giving us His Word in written form so that we may study Him and grow closer to Him. He has also given us another "gift" which we all too often "blow off to the wind". God has given some people the gift of teaching. Ephesians 4:11-12 "And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ.". There are a few passages in Scripture which can be hard to understand for the "average lay person" so we must turn to these teachers which God has appointed for understanding. Peter even mentions this fact in 2 Peter when mentioning Paul's writings. 2 Peter 3:15,16 "-as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, has written to you, as also in his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of Scripture.".

Upon any study of God's Word we are to pray to the Holy Spirit for understanding (Pslams 119:34; Proverbs 3:5). If after this we are still having problems understanding, God actually tells us that He has appointed teachers to help us understand (refer to Eph 4:11-12).

God's Word should be first in our study but do not say "God cannot help me understand through the words of others". The Holy Spirit will teach you but sometimes He will use the words of others to help you understand. If we completely dismiss what others might have to say then we should delete Eph 4:11-12 from our Bibles.

In my study of God's Word the Holy Spirit has directed me to what someone else has said. Does this mean I follow that "other" person? Or would this mean that the Holy Spirit has directed me to a teacher appointed by God?

I completely agree with what you have said but would add to that though that if the people who are in discussion with one another are giving opposing views, they both can not have received their information from the Holy Spirit.

For the Holy Spirit can not tell one person one thing and then tell another something that contradicts what He told the other.

We pray to God for understanding and through the Holy Spirit He will give us that understanding, either personally or He will guide us to another for that info. We are never to seek out others without His guidance !!!

 

[Willie-T]

I completely agree with what you have said but would add to that though that if the people who are in discussion with one another are giving opposing views, they both can not have received their information from the Holy Spirit.

For the Holy Spirit can not tell one person one thing and then tell another something that contradicts what He told the other.

We pray to God for understanding and through the Holy Spirit He will give us that understanding, either personally or He will guide us to another for that info. We are never to seek out others without His guidance !!!

On this forum, I often think "neither" person heard the Spirit.

 

[elf3]

Once again, you cannot even rightly divide what I've said. I said "people". You said that I said "everyone". Learn how to read. Incidentally, I've learned a thing or two from Spurgeon over the years, so you're way off by implying that I automatically reject Spurgeon's quotes.

I know you did not say "everyone". But by the placement of the word "people" in your sentence it can mean "everyone" and by using the word "people" in the way you did it includes "everyone". If you did not mean it that way you should have said "some people". And by your argument you did reject this quote by Spurgeon. You immediately said "who said.." then you follow it up by responding "Spurgeon?" Can you prove that Spurgeon is wrong by saying "certain people"? By his use of the words "certain people" Spurgeon is completely correct in that "certain people"... "think so little of what the Holy Spirit has revealed to others".

My point is that God has given us teachers to help us understand His Word. To find out who these teachers truly are we need the guidance of the Holy Spirit. We cannot rely upon ourselves as there are so many "false teachers" out there who speak so well that they can twist one little word thus changing the whole meaning of a verse.

The best example of this is what the Jehovahs Witness do in their "false" Bible the "The New World Translation". In John 1:1 they add a single letter to completely change the true meaning of the verse. Because we rely on the Holy Spirit for guidance and understanding, we as true followers of Christ, know that their translation is completely wrong and blasphemous. I worked with two guys who are JW and because they followed the teaching of this "cult" they refused to see the error in this verse. They relied upon someone besides the Holy Spirit for teaching and understanding.

 

[KennethC]

Of course, the Bible also repeatedly warns CHRISTIANS in relation to such things as "false teachers", "false brethren", "wolves in sheep's clothing", "false apostles", etc., etc., etc., so we still ultimately need to prove everything that we hear or read according to the rightly divided Word of God. After all, the "pope" is a "well known theologian", isn't he? Ought we to follow him? Not on our lives and the same could rightly be said of many Protestant "well known theologians". Being "well known" means nothing. In the end, it is truth that matters and our adherence to the same.

I like what you have said here because it is truth, that just because a person is a well known theologian or well known leader of the Church does not make them always in the truth.

Augustine for one has been called by some to be one of the greatest early scholars, but what some do not realize is that he was one of the very first to be lead away in apostasy teaching. For he started the eternal security doctrine in the 4th century where he claimed falling away from the faith and apostasy were both impossible. The bible however teaches multiple times on both that they do and will happen.

 

[elf3]

I completely agree with what you have said but would add to that though that if the people who are in discussion with one another are giving opposing views, they both can not have received their information from the Holy Spirit.

For the Holy Spirit can not tell one person one thing and then tell another something that contradicts what He told the other.

We pray to God for understanding and through the Holy Spirit He will give us that understanding, either personally or He will guide us to another for that info. We are never to seek out others without His guidance !!!

I agree with you on this. As there are always two sides to an argument one is right and one is wrong. As I said before we must rely on the Holy Spirit for understanding. We must also remember that we are brothers and sisters in Christ so therefore certain things should not be argued so much that we end up "at each other's throats". God teaches each one of us in different ways and also at different "speeds". What you might know now God has not revealed to me yet as I am not ready for that teaching. The same goes the other way. We must allow God to teach each one of us at His "speed" not ours. We must also be "willing" to learn from someone else. I am sure I have learned things from you and you have learned things from me but we don't realize it because it was the Holy Spirit doing the teaching not you or I.

I personally think it is really neat when I see how God used someone else to teach me something. I proofed what they said against God's Word then all the sudden the "lights come on" and I think "wow that was cool".

 

[Stephen63]

This is where prayer to the Holy Spirit for guidance and understanding comes into play. And you have just proven my main point in this forum. Because the quote came from Spurgeon you fight against it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Spurgeons quote. You took the quote by Spurgeon and made it say "everyone" when in fact he never says "everyone" he actually says "certain men".

So yes "certain men" disregaurd what the Holy Spirit reveals to others.

I agree wit you completely on your Op elf3, except for one important detail: nowhere in scripture does it say we pray to the Holy Spirit.

Luke 11:2 (KJV) And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.
[HR][/HR]John 14:16 (KJV) And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
[HR][/HR]John 16:26 (KJV) At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:[HR][/HR]
Matthew 6:8 (KJV) Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.[HR][/HR]Matthew 7:11 (KJV) If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
[HR][/HR]Luke 11:13 (KJV) If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
[HR][/HR]John 15:16 (KJV) Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
[HR][/HR]John 16:23 (KJV) And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

Other than that, it was very good.

 

[KennethC]

I agree with you on this. As there are always two sides to an argument one is right and one is wrong. As I said before we must rely on the Holy Spirit for understanding. We must also remember that we are brothers and sisters in Christ so therefore certain things should not be argued so much that we end up "at each other's throats". God teaches each one of us in different ways and also at different "speeds". What you might know now God has not revealed to me yet as I am not ready for that teaching. The same goes the other way. We must allow God to teach each one of us at His "speed" not ours. We must also be "willing" to learn from someone else. I am sure I have learned things from you and you have learned things from me but we don't realize it because it was the Holy Spirit doing the teaching not you or I.

I personally think it is really neat when I see how God used someone else to teach me something. I proofed what they said against God's Word then all the sudden the "lights come on" and I think "wow that was cool".

Yes each person is given a measure of faith and lead at different times to accept different parts of His way.
Those that get on my nerves though is those who go to a bible college or seminary school for 4-6 years and think they know the bible perfectly cover to cover, and nobody can reveal by the Spirit anything new to them.

The word of God takes well more then 4-6 years to understand things completely and perfectly, as I know preachers who have over 25 years of study under their belt and they say they are revealed new truths still every year in the word.

Also if it is opposing views we can not really call them brothers and sisters in Christ, because the word of God says that there will be false teachers and that there is only one way through Christ unto eternal life, and part of that path through Christ is one sound doctrine not many opposing or differentiating doctrines.

As example: If a person claims that departing from the faith and not ending up with eternal life is impossible then they are speaking a contradictory doctrine message, for 1 Timothy 4 clearly says the Holy Spirit says that it is possible.

Plus the true definition of apostasy is one who was once in the truth but is now in false doctrine/teaching.