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aspen

aspen

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#1
Feb 3, 2010
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#1
A recent thread topic was written, according to the author, to warn against threads on this board that she believes are not inline with Christian doctrine. Now, I agree to some extent; this board is a diverse group of Christians and people from diverse backgrounds - therefore getting your theology from a message board on the web has its perils - it is sort of like getting your news from the Daily Show or Colbert.

However, even outright heresy is less damaging to our witness then arguing, beating out demons from behind every brush, using condemning language, speaking down to people we do not agree with, and forfeiting perspective taking skills and empathy for our neighbors.

Nonbelievers and people who are doubting their faith are concerned with subjects like reconciling the God of the OT with the NT, the problem of evil in the world; why Christian talk about love; but use condemning language and treat each other and nonbelievers with condescension and cruelty. Do you really think people are going to left Christ based on faith and works or faith alone arguments?

We need to stop fooling ourselves - it is time to wake up and start loving each other instead of putting all of our effort into being right......
 
M

Mal316

Guest
#2
#2
Scripture warns against evil speech (lashon hara in Hebrew).

Lev 19:16 "'Do not go about spreading slander among your people."

Numbers chapter 12 relates God's anger against Aaron and Miriam for speaking against Moses.

Psalm 15:1-3 LORD, who may dwell in your sanctuary?
Who may live on your holy hill? 2 He whose walk is blameless
and who does what is righteous,
who speaks the truth from his heart
3 and has no slander on his tongue,
who does his neighbor no wrong
and casts no slur on his fellowman.

Psalm 34:13 "keep your tongue from evil and your lips from speaking lies."

Proverbs 21:23 "He who guards his mouth and his tongue keeps himself from calamity."

Ecclesiastes 5:6 'Do not let your mouth lead you into sin. And do not protest to the temple messenger, "My vow was a mistake." Why should God be angry at what you say and destroy the work of your hands?'




How we say what we say to one another, especially on a message board where inflection and sarcasm and joking can be hard to determine, matters a great deal. We present ourselves on this site through our words. Words have power to harm or help, to curse or bless.

What I see is that people are convinced or want to be convinced that what they believe is true. Else, why should they believe it? Opinions, doctrine, other beliefs, whatever you want to call it, if they go against what is believed (known?) to be true they are heresy*. More than that, they are dangerous and must be stopped. Harsh language indeed is used. More than convict someone of his/her error (if it even does that) it causes strife, division, anger, bitterness of spirit and may even drive people away rather than bring them close.

I do not accept the excuse that Jesus used harsh language against the Scribes, the Pharisees, the Sadducees, the teachers of the law and the rabbis. He was perfectly righteous. We are not. To the crowd who wanted to stone the adulteress, Jesus said, Those without sin cast the first stone.

I think there is a time and place to judge other people's behavior. It is our obligation to judge one another with righteous judgment. To not give deference to poor or mighty. Justice, justice, shall we follow. Why is justice repeated? To teach us that justice must be achieved by just means. If the means are not just, the end is not justified. We can and should speak against that which is sin.

I think too that we have to be careful with how we do it. And I know I'm guilty of not being gentle. I let emotions take over and I respond in the heat of the moment. This is not helpful, and for those offended, I apologize.

All that being said, let us lift one another up. Let us bear with one another, forgiving of faults, for we are none of us perfect. Let no debt remain outstanding except the continuing debt to love one another.

B'shalom (in peace)

Leo

*Heresy comes from the Greek for 'choose.' Doctrine that was heretical was what people chose to believe that was different than what the church taught.
 
phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#3
Feb 12, 2009
8,260
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#3
Hi,

Aspen/Mal your words are encouraging, But, I disagree with you on some points. When something is wrong it is wrong as simple as that. there is nothing wrong with rebuking wrong teaching, whether it is a simple statement, doctrinal or theological. Aspen your comment about faith plus works, or Justified by Faith alone, is very important. why would Paul write so continuously and very strongly abou this very subject why was there a council in Jerusalem about the same mentioned?

I know where you guys are coming from, and yes I agree we should be loving,kind and patient towards all.

I ahve only started one post and that was in the hope of lifting each other up. Other posts I reply because I see it as wrong, or it is an interesting topic.(as do we all).

Both of you are correct in that we should be more involved in posts that will be uplifting to us all, aspen you made a great point about those doubting their Faith or non believers about reconciling the God of the OT and New.... if there was correct teaching you know as well as I do, that it is the same God we don't need to reconcile!. bad teaching teaches something altogether different.

All most all of the posts here start with a title that will usually invite contention, as does the initial posting of the thread originator. I would postulate that the the reason for this is to prove some point and to 'boast' within themselves about their superior knowledge', if infact they have any knowledge worth knowing.

On the other hand you have statments like 'Oh, I just believe in Jesus' that is very good indeed, but so does the devil and demons, you have to ask, what exactly is it you believe, believe it or not that also so is very important.

Talking about whether we should follow the law or not is important, as again it goes hand in hand with Pauls epistles, and the Jerusalem council.

So there can be a righteous anger, I get angry at how we mistreat the poor, I angry how we disregard the word of the Lord and the list goes on, but, this is from a love out of righteousness, and things should be done in Love.

It is how we engage in dialogue, with each other causes the problems. and I am guilty of being hasty and writing in the spare of the moment.

anyhow, I know I'll probably get slated but that's how I see it.

Kind regards

Phil
 
M

Mal316

Guest
#4
#4
Phil, good post.

I submit that correcting incorrect teaching can be a tricky business. People on opposing sides will believe the other is false. Both will present evidence. Who's right? Witness the debates about the rapture, which Bible translation should be used, long hair on men, adoption, evolution and creationism.

I think we can enter dialogue with others and present our views in a calm manner. Also, it should be made clear that what is being rebuked is the doctrine, not the person posting said doctrine. For example, "that is a false teaching." Not "you're an idiot. You make no sense." (Not that those words were specifically said, but the sentiment was clearly there.)

The key phrase is righteous anger. Not self-righteous anger or holier than thou anger. Anger at all the things Phil mentioned. And yes, this righteous anger should be "from a love out of righteousness, and things should be done in Love."
 
S

shad

Guest
#5
#5
aspen said:
A recent thread topic was written, according to the author, to warn against threads on this board that she believes are not inline with Christian doctrine. Now, I agree to some extent; this board is a diverse group of Christians and people from diverse backgrounds - therefore getting your theology from a message board on the web has its perils - it is sort of like getting your news from the Daily Show or Colbert.

However, even outright heresy is less damaging to our witness then arguing, beating out demons from behind every brush, using condemning language, speaking down to people we do not agree with, and forfeiting perspective taking skills and empathy for our neighbors.

Nonbelievers and people who are doubting their faith are concerned with subjects like reconciling the God of the OT with the NT, the problem of evil in the world; why Christian talk about love; but use condemning language and treat each other and nonbelievers with condescension and cruelty. Do you really think people are going to left Christ based on faith and works or faith alone arguments?

We need to stop fooling ourselves - it is time to wake up and start loving each other instead of putting all of our effort into being right......
Click to expand...
We study the word and doctrine to show ourselves approved (to rightly divide the word of truth)...approved means this ~ so that we will have the right understand about truth concerning the Father and the Son and when the word of God is tried in our soul it will be purified and become complete as a shield of faith to protect us against the wiles of the devil and quench all the fiery darts of the wicked / 2Tim 2:15, 1Pt 1:7 Ps 18:30, Eph 6:11-16. Some won't look up these verses because they do not want to and they don't want the conviction associated with them.

We must love according to the truth or our love be without truth. If we love without truth, charity will not edify and build believers up into Christ as members of His body, flesh and bones / Eph 5:30. Truth and the nature of God makes the love of God what it is. God is love, but He loves according to truth. God loved the world and gave His Son. He gave His Son according to truth so that man would have a scapegoat for his sin. Jesus said that I am the truth / Jn 14:6 and that no man can come to the Father accept through the truth (Him).

He would be the one that would sacrifice His own life on the cross as a ransom for many / Mk 10:45 and those that would believe upon that act of love would have the truth and be set free from sin / Jn 8:31,32, Rom 6:17,18. There are those that never receive the love of the truth that they might be saved / 2Thes 2:10. We must learn the truth and get it right or we will never be able to love others into the truth, which is Christ. We buy the truth and sell it not / Prov 23:23. That means that we must pay a price to have the truth, through labouring through discipline in the word and applying it, by having the word tried through trials, by being opposed on every side and having the love of God squeezed out as the Holy Spirit sheds the fruit of that love abroad in our heart / Rom 5:5, 8:35-39.
 
M

mpaper345

Banned
#6
Feb 9, 2010
2,486
39
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#6
Love is the most important aspect a percon can have.The Bible says without love you are nothing.That means loving all people not only some people.Jesus said love your enemies so of course you have to love all people.
The Bible says that love works no evil towards their neighbor;therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
The 2 greatest commandments are love God and love your neighbor.All prophets and the law hang on those 2 commandments.

The problem is that not everybody that claims to be with Christ has the Spirit and some that do have the Spirit can allow the flesh to have it's way for a short time.
Only by the Holy Spirit can we love people perfectly and be right with God.

The world likes to fight with each other over their different opinions which stems from arrogance wanting to say I am right and you are wrong in an arrogant fashion.

That what happens with some people that claim to be with Christ,they allow their flesh to have it's way and argue with people as the world argues with each other trying to act superior over someone else in thier beliefs.

Matt
 
G

glenwood74

Guest
#7
#7
In Romans chapter 14, Paul deals with this entire issue; From arguing with baby Christians about their belief, to arguing with each other over doctrine differences. He tells us that we should strive for unity, that we should not do anything that would cause a brother to sin, and that if we do anything we believe is not right we are sinning. I think that all Christians who post on this site should take time to examine everything they write here, and make sure that it is in accordance with right teaching, with righteous love for our neighbors, and with an aim at unity and support, otherwise we are simply trying to justify ourselves out of a selfish need for acceptance from man by having our arguments acknowledged.

Another great post Aspen!

God bless you all!
 
phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#8
Feb 12, 2009
8,260
2,111
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#8
I know what you and aspen are trying to say, and with good intentions. but should we have unity with those not teaching truth? yes, we should definately rebuke them in love but I not would go as far as unite.

Our aim should be to unify and build each other up in TRUTH.

Kind regards

Phil
 
N

NoahsMom

Guest
#9
#9
Also, it should be made clear that what is being rebuked is the doctrine, not the person posting said doctrine. For example, "that is a false teaching." Not "you're an idiot. You make no sense." (Not that those words were specifically said, but the sentiment was clearly there.)I agree with this statement.
 
C

charisenexcelcis

Guest
#10
#10
aspen said:
A recent thread topic was written, according to the author, to warn against threads on this board that she believes are not inline with Christian doctrine. Now, I agree to some extent; this board is a diverse group of Christians and people from diverse backgrounds - therefore getting your theology from a message board on the web has its perils - it is sort of like getting your news from the Daily Show or Colbert.

However, even outright heresy is less damaging to our witness then arguing, beating out demons from behind every brush, using condemning language, speaking down to people we do not agree with, and forfeiting perspective taking skills and empathy for our neighbors.

Nonbelievers and people who are doubting their faith are concerned with subjects like reconciling the God of the OT with the NT, the problem of evil in the world; why Christian talk about love; but use condemning language and treat each other and nonbelievers with condescension and cruelty. Do you really think people are going to left Christ based on faith and works or faith alone arguments?

We need to stop fooling ourselves - it is time to wake up and start loving each other instead of putting all of our effort into being right......
Click to expand...
There are many ways to show your love for the brethren and even more to show your rejection. Heresy, by definition abandons the faith. Without the faith, there is no relationship. Without the relationship, there is no abiding Spirit. Without the Holy Spirit we cannot truly agapeo (love) on another. Heresy rejects the brother and sister by breaking fellowship with them.
Too often our threads are hijacked by those who have an agenda. I have noticed that almost ever hijacking results in futile arguments.
Outside of heresy, I agree about being right. There is a sin that leads not to death--prayer can be more effective than argument. Our faith is based upon the greatest wrong that was ever committed. He who knew no sin, became sin. The only One who did not deserve to die, died in my place and broke the power of death. For Him I can bear such small wrongs as come in this world.
 
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