144,000, tribulation evangelists?

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kentappel

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2011
188
3
18
#1
Where in the Bible does it say what the function of the 144,000 are? I have heard people say for years, even pastors in sermons, that they are to be evangelists in the Great Tribulation. But what verses say this, specifically?

I have had people tell me that their function of being evangelists is in Revelation 7 and Revelation 14, in Daniel 9, in Zech. 12 and in Romans 11 but I just finished reading all of those chapters and I still don't see where it says they are evangelists or even what their function is. It seems that is something people hear and just repeat.
 
Last edited:

kentappel

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2011
188
3
18
#2
In Revelation 7, right after the 144,000 are sealed and they are described as being from specific tribes, in verse 8 it talks about the multitude from all tribes and languages but it says nowhere how they came to faith. Someone saying they were evangelized by the 144000 because the text directly before it is about the 144,000 is a stretch to say the least, I have had people tell me this, but l still can't see from any text what the function of the 144,000 is. So the only thing I can conclude is we don't know what their function is.
 
A

atwhatcost

Guest
#3
Where in the Bible does it say what the function of the 144,000 are? I have heard people say for years, even pastors in sermons, that they are to be evangelists in the Great Tribulation. But what verses say this, specifically?

I have had people tell me that their function of being evangelists is in Revelation 7 and Revelation 14, in Daniel 9, in Zech. 12 and in Romans 11 but I just finished reading all of those chapters and I still don't see where it says they are evangelists or even what their function is. It seems that is something people hear and just repeat.
Then you have proof it's not true.
 
L

LT

Guest
#4
Then you have proof it's not true.
Or at least that it is pure speculation.
The lack of evidence doesn't necessarily mean that the speculation won't come to fruition.
 
O

oldthennew

Guest
#5
what we can glean from the text is that the EVENT of the Sealing of the 144,000 comes after
the 6th seal -
this co-insides with MATT.24:29. IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Tribulation of those days the sun
will be darkened, and the moon will not give it's light.....

the time setting is AFTER the Great Tribulation, not before, though this is commonly thought -
REV.6:17. speaks of the TIME OF HIS WRATH, this is God's Judgment ,
also called The Great Day of The Lord or That Day - these are (2)different events, that is,
The Great Day of The Lord and The Great Tribulation, they happen one right after the other...

REV.6:12 & ACTS.2:19-20. speaks of the Heavenly Events, the moon and the sun, this is the
beginning of the NT Church.
REV.7. is the Fulfillment of the NT Church.
we can know from the text that in vs.3, that the servants of our God are sealed in their foreheads -
so, they are 'servants' of some sort, which could very well be to preach the Gospel or to minister
unto others or to do anything Commanded under the Church Laws.

since the Great Commission is to 'Preach the Gospel unto All Nations', then the purpose of God will stand
until there is no need for the Gospel to be preached....and this can't be until the scripture is fulfilled,
that every man shall Know The Lord'...
 
Aug 29, 2015
184
0
0
#6
Where in the Bible does it say what the function of the 144,000 are? I have heard people say for years, even pastors in sermons, that they are to be evangelists in the Great Tribulation. But what verses say this, specifically?

I have had people tell me that their function of being evangelists is in Revelation 7 and Revelation 14, in Daniel 9, in Zech. 12 and in Romans 11 but I just finished reading all of those chapters and I still don't see where it says they are evangelists or even what their function is. It seems that is something people hear and just repeat.
I agree,another example of man re writing the bible to suit himself and his needs,I suspect this one has been kept going by the church so they still get people willing to work there whole lives for them for a pittance so the church gets free labour with the promise of salvation!! Total rubbish the 144,000 are the only people who will live eternally with God and they are all his chosen people,Jews.
 
Aug 29, 2015
184
0
0
#7
what we can glean from the text is that the EVENT of the Sealing of the 144,000 comes after
the 6th seal -
this co-insides with MATT.24:29. IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Tribulation of those days the sun
will be darkened, and the moon will not give it's light.....

the time setting is AFTER the Great Tribulation, not before, though this is commonly thought -
REV.6:17. speaks of the TIME OF HIS WRATH, this is God's Judgment ,
also called The Great Day of The Lord or That Day - these are (2)different events, that is,
The Great Day of The Lord and The Great Tribulation, they happen one right after the other...

REV.6:12 & ACTS.2:19-20. speaks of the Heavenly Events, the moon and the sun, this is the
beginning of the NT Church.
REV.7. is the Fulfillment of the NT Church.
we can know from the text that in vs.3, that the servants of our God are sealed in their foreheads -
so, they are 'servants' of some sort, which could very well be to preach the Gospel or to minister
unto others or to do anything Commanded under the Church Laws.

since the Great Commission is to 'Preach the Gospel unto All Nations', then the purpose of God will stand
until there is no need for the Gospel to be preached....and this can't be until the scripture is fulfilled,
that every man shall Know The Lord'...
why would God need 144,000 to preach? Who are they going to preach to? The 144000 are the only survivors! And when you talk about events being ' the great day of the lord' and the great tribulation happening right after one another do u mean in human days months years or God day months,years ? There's no agreement as to how long a god day is? Refer to genesis when God creats the Earth,u can't possibly know any specific time frame which is very handy for the church isn't it? Because of all the misdirection in the bible,knowone apart from a God knows when all this will happen,hence the old saying when there's an unanswerable question in any walk of life like " when will my extension be finished mate?" The builder replies "God knows" simple.
 
P

prodigal

Guest
#8
revelations 7

9
After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 10 and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvationbelongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” 11 All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying:

“Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom,
Thanksgiving and honor and power and might,
Be to our God forever and ever.
Amen.”


13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”
14 And I said to him, “Sir,[b] you know.”
So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.15 Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them. 16 They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat; 17 for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters.[c] And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”
 
J

Jasher

Guest
#9
The book of Revelation was written to whom? It was written to the Christians of the first century? What did the 144,000 mean to the first century Christians? We only look over their shoulders to see what it meant to them and then we can see what it means to us - just like all the books in the Bible. None were written directly to us.

The correct listing of the 12 tribes of Israel from the book of Chronicles...
1 Chron. 2:1-2 (KJV)

These are the sons of Israel;
Reuben,
Simeon,
Levi,
Judah,
Issachar,
Zebulun,
Dan,
Joseph,
Benjamin,
Naphtali,
Gad,
Asher.

The symbolic listing of the tribes (144,000) in REVELATION.

JUDAH – Who came from the tribe of Judah? Who was the firstborn of the New Covenant? The firstborn was always listed first - and in the O.T. listing the firstborn is always Reuben. But in this symbolic listing Judah is first - WHY!! Because the firstborn of this company of people is Jesus. He is at the head of this group of people and the name
Judah means “praise.”

Reuben - who sees the son
Gad - a band; a troop
Asher – happiness
Naphtali - that struggles or fights
Manasseh - forgetfulness
Simeon - that hears or obeys
Levi - associated with him
Issachar - reward; recompense
Zebulun - dwelling; habitation
Joseph - increase
Benjamin - son of the right hand
(Benoni) - son of my sorrow, or pain

So the meaning of the 144,000 is contained in the meaning of the names and that of the Firstborn. Why did God use space in the Bible to describe the birth of these 12 boys in the first place?

The first question that has to be answered is, why is John's list a botched up mess? Can't he remember the proper listing of the tribes of Israel. No one has given a good and logical reason for this that I have heard. The reason that it is "Botched" up is because he is drawing symbols out of the Old Testament and he does this all through the book of Revelation.

So the "symbolic" picture of the 144,000 is a company of the people of God for all time who at their head is the firstborn Son seated at God’s right hand. A company of people who are happy and full of praise. An army who fights and obeys the one who has forgotten all of their sins; and they will increase and receive a reward and dwell with him forever. This was good news in particular to someone facing starved lions in the arenas of Rome.

As Rachel lie dying of childbirth with Benjamin – she named him “Benoni” that means “son of my suffering.” Jacob said no - he will be called “Benjamin” – son of my right hand. What a beautiful picture of Christ we have been given. He is our Benoni - Benjamin.

Reference:


Genesis 35:17-18 (NASB)
And it came about when she was in severe labor that the midwife said to her, "Do not fear, for now you have another son." 18 And it came about as her soul was departing (for she died), that she named him Ben-oni; but his father called him Benjamin.

So what about the two tribes that were left out? They simple did not fit the message of the author...
Ephraim – fruitful
Dan - judgment
God is not judging this company – they have escaped his judgment and wrath. You also need to take into account the fact that the 144,000 is mentioned in several places in Revelation. Are these all the same group or are they different? Lets look for a moment.

Rev. 7:4 (NASB)
And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:

Rev. 14:1 (NASB)
And I looked, and behold, the Lamb was standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His name and the name of His Father written on their foreheads.

Rev. 14:3 (NASB)
And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one could learn the song except the one hundred and forty-four thousand who had been purchased from the earth.
After the the 12 tribes were listed, John looked and saw the 12 tribes that were just described and here is what he saw.

Rev. 7:9 (NASB)
After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude, which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands;

Looks to me like its all the same group that we described initially, but instead of being “Sealed” they had the name of the Son and the Father on their foreheads - Same difference. In 14:3 they were purchased from the earth – the persecuted and martyred Saints of God. Same group as the others all associated by the number 144,000. It relates first to the people to whom it was written in appx 92AD, but after that - to all Saints who have been tested on the Earth including us today. The redeemed company of the Lord were the only ones who could learn the new song because it was a song learned from the trials and tribulations of life on Earth. Does this make sense to you?

Numbers in the Book of Revelation are “Symbols” and are seldom arithmetic. 144,000 is 12 x 12 x 10 x 10 x 10. These are numbers which symbolize the unknown number of believers in this group. Revelation had to be simple for the people to understand in their day because a lot of the Christians then were uneducated slaves.

So why do I think this is the correct interpretation of the 144,000? Several reasons. First of all this interpretation is simple, and It also meant something to the Christians of the First century. It means something to all Christians of all ages throughout history from out of its original context - including us today, and will be a blessing to those who are yet to be born - should the lord delay his coming even longer. It doesn’t change with time or with current events; and it doesn’t just apply to a few select people somewhere out in the distant, obscure future.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
3,650
113
#10
I agree,another example of man re writing the bible to suit himself and his needs,I suspect this one has been kept going by the church so they still get people willing to work there whole lives for them for a pittance so the church gets free labour with the promise of salvation!! Total rubbish the 144,000 are the only people who will live eternally with God and they are all his chosen people,Jews.
They are Jews, true; but the only people who will live eternally with God?? Let's hope not...we aren't J.W.'S :rolleyes:
 
3

3Scoreand10

Guest
#11
Take time to study each and every characteristic of the 144,000 that is given in Rev.
Pay attention to each detail before you make a decision.
They are not evangelists.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#13
Go through the two places where they are listed in Revelation. Number and list every fact about them individually...Pay particular attention to the words used and what they are called (same word as Jesus) and then think hard as there is a group from history that fits this group......
 

kentappel

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2011
188
3
18
#14
revelations 7

9
After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 10 and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvationbelongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” 11 All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying:

“Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom,
Thanksgiving and honor and power and might,
Be to our God forever and ever.
Amen.”


13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”
14 And I said to him, “Sir,[b] you know.”
So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.15 Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them. 16 They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat; 17 for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters.[c] And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”
But it doesn't say they were witnessed to by the 144,000 as the great multitude is just talked about after the 144,000 are identified as being from certain tribes and that they were sealed by God. So unless the Bible specifically says what the function of the 144,000 is, we can't know for sure what their function is.
 

kentappel

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2011
188
3
18
#15
Take time to study each and every characteristic of the 144,000 that is given in Rev.
Pay attention to each detail before you make a decision.
They are not evangelists.
They are sealed, they are from specific tribes, they are male virgins, they sing a song nobody but they know, and the follow the Lord around and worship Him.

I have heard for years, a lot of people repeat it, that they are tribulation evangelists but I just don't want to repeat what others say.
 
V

Viligant_Warrior

Guest
#16
Ken, these Jews are “sealed,” which means they have the special protection of God from all of the divine judgments and from the Antichrist to perform their mission during the tribulation period. Revelation 6:17 speaks of the people remaining in the world wondering who can stand from the wrath to come. These sealed Jews' ability to "stand" will grab the attention of those who are not, and perhaps cause them to seek what they have to offer.

The tribulation period is a future seven-year period of time in which God will enact divine judgment against those who reject Him, the purpose being for Him to see the completion of His plan of salvation for the nation of Israel, as well as those who would hear the message of Christ who are not Jews and come to faith in Him.

All of this is according to God’s revelation to the prophet Daniel (Daniel 9:24–27). The 144,000 Jews are a sort of “first fruits” (Revelation 14:4) of a redeemed Israel which has been previously prophesied (Zechariah 12:10; Romans 11:25–27), and their mission seems to be to evangelize the post-rapture world and proclaim the gospel during the tribulation period. As a result of their ministry, millions—“a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language” (Revelation 7:9)—will come to faith in Christ.

As an aside as to why you've struggled so much to understand the perspective of them being evangelists, you can't just get the Bible's message by focusing on one passage, or even one book. The context of a teaching may be found in the writings of thousands of years before, and if you don't search out those truths, you will miss them.
 
P

popeye

Guest
#17
Take time to study each and every characteristic of the 144,000 that is given in Rev.
Pay attention to each detail before you make a decision.
They are not evangelists.
Bingo!

All they are ,are firstfruits Jews. That is all.
 
P

popeye

Guest
#18
before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,


That has been transposed for years into the 144k as evangelists.
They are not.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,083
1,749
113
#19
Where in the Bible does it say what the function of the 144,000 are? I have heard people say for years, even pastors in sermons, that they are to be evangelists in the Great Tribulation. But what verses say this, specifically?

I have had people tell me that their function of being evangelists is in Revelation 7 and Revelation 14, in Daniel 9, in Zech. 12 and in Romans 11 but I just finished reading all of those chapters and I still don't see where it says they are evangelists or even what their function is. It seems that is something people hear and just repeat.

That kind of stuff bothers me, too. I once pointed out to a pastor after a sermon that the Bible never says that the 144,000 would evangelize anybody. He just shrugged and preached the same thing again the next time he brought up the end times.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#20
After the church is gone the 144,000 will be raised up by God to proclaim the coming Messiah to apostate Israel. The church often loses sight of the fact that the great tribulation is a Jewish event and that the church is no where to be found upon the earth.

The witnesses and martyrs in the tribulation will be Jewish not Gentile.

For the cause of Christ
Roger