It still bothers me...sorry!..no I'm not!
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S
Are you really concerned about the poor. What are you doing to alleviate their poverty? Are you condemning their buying of alcohol, tobacco, and lottery tickets just as strongly as you complain about tithing? Are you preaching against satellite TV and phone bills that rob the poor? Do you really want to help the poor, or are you just offended at tithing because you know you should, but you love that money so much you can't turn it loose?
When Jesus observed the widow put all she had in the offering, why didn't he give it back to her and chastise the priests for robbing from a poor widow?
Tithing is a benefit for the giver not for the one receiving tithe. Yes, the tithe needs to be taught correctly, but so many have your attitude that ministers are often afraid to properly teach the tithe. Real men of God aren't trying to take from someone else for their own personal gain,and they are afraid someone will think so if they teach tithe. It's a shame because it causes there to be no faith released in the tithe and it becomes nothing more than a service paid for.
When Jesus observed the widow put all she had in the offering, why didn't he give it back to her and chastise the priests for robbing from a poor widow?
Tithing is a benefit for the giver not for the one receiving tithe. Yes, the tithe needs to be taught correctly, but so many have your attitude that ministers are often afraid to properly teach the tithe. Real men of God aren't trying to take from someone else for their own personal gain,and they are afraid someone will think so if they teach tithe. It's a shame because it causes there to be no faith released in the tithe and it becomes nothing more than a service paid for.
Whether a person believes in tithes or not,it would seem wrong for the preacher to tell someone to leave if they did not tithe,because that is between the person and God.The preacher is probably thinking if you are not going to financially support the building and the bills,then get out of the building.But it would not seem right because it is God's building if it is His Church.
[SUP]
6 [/SUP]But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver(2 Corinthians 9:6-7).
Whether a person believes in tithes or not,the Bible says whatever a person purposes in his heart,so let him give,which means the preacher cannot tell you what to give,for God said you decide that for yourself what to give,which it is obvious it is talking of offerings,and not tithes,because it says if a person sows sparingly,they will reap sparingly,and if they sow bountifully,they will reap bountifully,which tithes were a standard 10 percent.
In offerings give whatever you want to give,but do we still tithe.The answer might be in Hebrews when it talks that since the priesthood changed,there must also be a change in the law,and the Leviticus priesthood received tithes,but with Jesus,there must be a change in the law,but then Melchizedec received tithes of Abraham,before the Leviticus priesthood,and Jesus is made after the order of Melchizedec forever.
Jesus took the physical ordinances of Israel out of the way,and then lists the physical ordianances,and let no man judge you in those things,but does not mention tithes being taken out of the way.
The New Testament does not name tithes specifically,but does this mean we do not pay tithes,or is it a given that the New Testament saints should know that they should give tithes,especially in the last book of the Old Testament,Malachi,and said that the Jews were lacking paying their tithes,and to get right with Him,they should pay their tithes,and said the nation is robbing Him.
I will not say either way,unless I can see it better in scripture,where I know for sure,but am kind of leaning towards tithes,but either way,no person should be forced to pay tithes,whether they believe in tithes or not,and should still have access to the house of God.
[SUP]
6 [/SUP]But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver(2 Corinthians 9:6-7).
Whether a person believes in tithes or not,the Bible says whatever a person purposes in his heart,so let him give,which means the preacher cannot tell you what to give,for God said you decide that for yourself what to give,which it is obvious it is talking of offerings,and not tithes,because it says if a person sows sparingly,they will reap sparingly,and if they sow bountifully,they will reap bountifully,which tithes were a standard 10 percent.
In offerings give whatever you want to give,but do we still tithe.The answer might be in Hebrews when it talks that since the priesthood changed,there must also be a change in the law,and the Leviticus priesthood received tithes,but with Jesus,there must be a change in the law,but then Melchizedec received tithes of Abraham,before the Leviticus priesthood,and Jesus is made after the order of Melchizedec forever.
Jesus took the physical ordinances of Israel out of the way,and then lists the physical ordianances,and let no man judge you in those things,but does not mention tithes being taken out of the way.
The New Testament does not name tithes specifically,but does this mean we do not pay tithes,or is it a given that the New Testament saints should know that they should give tithes,especially in the last book of the Old Testament,Malachi,and said that the Jews were lacking paying their tithes,and to get right with Him,they should pay their tithes,and said the nation is robbing Him.
I will not say either way,unless I can see it better in scripture,where I know for sure,but am kind of leaning towards tithes,but either way,no person should be forced to pay tithes,whether they believe in tithes or not,and should still have access to the house of God.
I think the more important question is why do you tithe? tithing is much more about the heart than the offering of money, if you tithe because everyone else does or because that is church tradition then there is no point, the tithing of money was created because God knows what money means to us and he looks at the heart of the tithing far more than the tithing itself
Well! You have a good point! Churches should not be forcing tithing on anyone and to throw them out if they don't is inappropriate. However, In a bizarre way the so called church is in reality doing them a favor by asking them to leave. On the other hand they have soiled the message of the Gospel with their improper actions.
First, I do agree with you.
I don't think many here would consider that church is a representation of Christ. Nor do I think that so called church is in anyway represents the money practices of the majority of churches.
The Pr 29:7 is a hard hitting verse, but who are you hitting with it.
So the question is: What are you achieving in bringing this subject up?
I know you were hurt by such a church and I can understand why you are targeting that type of church.
But I think your preaching to the quire or you just want to stimulate conversation.
First, I do agree with you.
I don't think many here would consider that church is a representation of Christ. Nor do I think that so called church is in anyway represents the money practices of the majority of churches.
The Pr 29:7 is a hard hitting verse, but who are you hitting with it.
So the question is: What are you achieving in bringing this subject up?
I know you were hurt by such a church and I can understand why you are targeting that type of church.
But I think your preaching to the quire or you just want to stimulate conversation.
I've heard true prophets & false prophets. Even the hardest of false prophets weren't as bad as you.
In case you haven't noticed your "prophecy" sounds nothing like anything I've read in the Bible.
"Deal with it!". Now what kind of attitude is that?
Lemme tell you something..... When you "play" prophet, you'll stand in judgement for it.
I think there's a judgement for "misrepresenting God"
Ezekiel 13:1-9 (NASB) [SUP]1 [/SUP]Then the word of the LORD came to me saying, [SUP]2 [/SUP]"Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel who prophesy, and say to those who prophesy from their own inspiration, 'Listen to the word of the LORD! [SUP]3 [/SUP]'Thus says the Lord GOD, "Woe to the foolish prophets who are following their own spirit and have seen nothing. [SUP]4 [/SUP]"O Israel, your prophets have been like foxes among ruins. [SUP]5 [/SUP]"You have not gone up into the breaches, nor did you build the wall around the house of Israel to stand in the battle on the day of the LORD. [SUP]6 [/SUP]"They see falsehood and lying divination who are saying, 'The LORD declares,' when the LORD has not sent them; yet they hope for the fulfillment of their word. [SUP]7 [/SUP]"Did you not see a false vision and speak a lying divination when you said, 'The LORD declares,' but it is not I who have spoken?"'" [SUP]8 [/SUP]Therefore, thus says the Lord GOD, "Because you have spoken falsehood and seen a lie, therefore behold, I am against you," declares the Lord GOD. [SUP]9 [/SUP]"So My hand will be against the prophets who see false visions and utter lying divinations. They will have no place in the council of My people, nor will they be written down in the register of the house of Israel, nor will they enter the land of Israel, that you may know that I am the Lord GOD.
Indeed , judgement will be upon a man who plays the mouthpiece of God!
I really don't believe he is speaking as a prophet. Yet, is just using verses to support his position. He is correct in pointing out that those who use the people of God as food to feed themselves will be judged. One does not need to be a prophet to apply that verse in a general manner. Speaking in general terms which means it falls upon who ever it applies to. If you are not a Shepard and not authority in a church, then it has no meaning to you as the hearer.
S
A friend of mine went to a church (As a visitor) that I was involved with growing up: things have changed SO much since I stopped attending.
She told me that she passed the offering bucket along when it came to her and the man in charge of the bucket for her row started grilling her about why she wasn't tithing... She was polite at first, but he kept going. She left and never went back.
The church she and I now attend makes it easy to give/tithe (with apps and kiosks) and our pastors talk about how God is using the tithes and offerings given to reach people in our city. They've never once said that it was a requirement or said that everyone, regardless of how much money you earn/have has to give.
I believe that God calls us to be responsible with our finances and that tithing is a way of showing Him honor and furthering His kingdom on earth, but if you are poor and can barely afford to feed your family and get by, you should NOT feel forced/belittled, etc if you don't put money in the offering plate/bucket.... The church should be using the tithes and offerings of other members/church-goers to help those families in need!
In the end, tithing is between us and God- I don't believe you will go to hell for not tithing, but I do believe God can do amazing things in your life if you're willing to let him take control of every aspect- finances being a huge one..
Anyway, end of rant
She told me that she passed the offering bucket along when it came to her and the man in charge of the bucket for her row started grilling her about why she wasn't tithing... She was polite at first, but he kept going. She left and never went back.
The church she and I now attend makes it easy to give/tithe (with apps and kiosks) and our pastors talk about how God is using the tithes and offerings given to reach people in our city. They've never once said that it was a requirement or said that everyone, regardless of how much money you earn/have has to give.
I believe that God calls us to be responsible with our finances and that tithing is a way of showing Him honor and furthering His kingdom on earth, but if you are poor and can barely afford to feed your family and get by, you should NOT feel forced/belittled, etc if you don't put money in the offering plate/bucket.... The church should be using the tithes and offerings of other members/church-goers to help those families in need!
In the end, tithing is between us and God- I don't believe you will go to hell for not tithing, but I do believe God can do amazing things in your life if you're willing to let him take control of every aspect- finances being a huge one..
Anyway, end of rant
Daniel 4:27 Wherefore, oh King (Pastor) let my council be acceptable unto you, and break off your sins by doing the right thing, and thy iniquities, by finally obeying the word and show mercy to the poor (in the congregation.)..(wouldn't that be a novel experience?).
Why are you on this rant again Yet? You need to shut it up and go away.
Because: Proverbs 29:24. says if I shut up, 'I'm partnering with a thief.'...check it out yourself.
And in 31:9 I'm commanded to ' open your mouth ......and plead the cause of the poor'. I'll plead until I bleed!
Somebody has to be concerned about widow Jones and the poor. I did shut up for decades. Now God has commanded us to speak and hold not our peace. Let yall have it...packaged in love of course. Please pray for me that I can have more love for those that don't seem to give a hoot.
News flash: it's not operating in the love of Jesus to devour widows houses and defraud the poor. Proverbs 26:28 'A lying tongue(twisting scripture for fun and profit) hates those that are oppressed by it.'
Did you catch that by a slim chance? If a man is feathering his own nest off the backs of the poor, he does NOT love them.
All he cares about is filling that offering plate.
I'm just your humble correspondent. Beat me up if you must. But if you have no real problem with pastors living off the lie of the tithe and offerings that impoverish the impoverished, then I think you better bend a knee and do some serious repenting. I'm just saying. Still love ya. That's why I teach the word of God on this tragic malaise.
Proverbs 10:6. .....'violence covers (spews from) the mouth of the wicked.'
Violence: Hebrew: Hamas: wait for it....wait for it...your not going to like it...here it is... ruthlessness, cruelty, false(lies), cruel hatred, injustice, oppressor, violent dealing.
When you are barely putting food in your babies mouths then this charlatan, who refuses to obey God's command to work a secular job according to Acts 20, demands a percentage of your meager check or you can take a hike, then that is violence, ruthless violence. I lived under that violence. My kids are still suffering from that 'after glow' of degradation. I know of countless others. Many who quit the dens simply because they could not afford the membership fees.
And if you haven't seen this in your den, then that is not the norm. Every den I have ever been in, all operate in the same lies and theft. And contrary to wishful thinking, God is not going to let this pimping of the gospel and desolation of the poor go unanswered. Count on it!!
Why are you on this rant again Yet? You need to shut it up and go away.
Because: Proverbs 29:24. says if I shut up, 'I'm partnering with a thief.'...check it out yourself.
And in 31:9 I'm commanded to ' open your mouth ......and plead the cause of the poor'. I'll plead until I bleed!
Somebody has to be concerned about widow Jones and the poor. I did shut up for decades. Now God has commanded us to speak and hold not our peace. Let yall have it...packaged in love of course. Please pray for me that I can have more love for those that don't seem to give a hoot.
News flash: it's not operating in the love of Jesus to devour widows houses and defraud the poor. Proverbs 26:28 'A lying tongue(twisting scripture for fun and profit) hates those that are oppressed by it.'
Did you catch that by a slim chance? If a man is feathering his own nest off the backs of the poor, he does NOT love them.
All he cares about is filling that offering plate.
I'm just your humble correspondent. Beat me up if you must. But if you have no real problem with pastors living off the lie of the tithe and offerings that impoverish the impoverished, then I think you better bend a knee and do some serious repenting. I'm just saying. Still love ya. That's why I teach the word of God on this tragic malaise.
Proverbs 10:6. .....'violence covers (spews from) the mouth of the wicked.'
Violence: Hebrew: Hamas: wait for it....wait for it...your not going to like it...here it is... ruthlessness, cruelty, false(lies), cruel hatred, injustice, oppressor, violent dealing.
When you are barely putting food in your babies mouths then this charlatan, who refuses to obey God's command to work a secular job according to Acts 20, demands a percentage of your meager check or you can take a hike, then that is violence, ruthless violence. I lived under that violence. My kids are still suffering from that 'after glow' of degradation. I know of countless others. Many who quit the dens simply because they could not afford the membership fees.
And if you haven't seen this in your den, then that is not the norm. Every den I have ever been in, all operate in the same lies and theft. And contrary to wishful thinking, God is not going to let this pimping of the gospel and desolation of the poor go unanswered. Count on it!!
Any church in Omaha, Nebraska. Now you call them all up. Council bluffs Iowa. Why would I lie about a thing like that? I'm against lying. It's a sin you know. And that's what most pastors do. What part of the land of Oz do you live in?
Lets say you bump into a church that doesn't do the tithe thing, a rarity indeed, don't hang up the phone until you find out if they function according to the deeds of the Nicolaitans, clerical/laity division. If they do, then they are still screwed up. Yea I know. I'm a mean and bitter guy. But at least I understand the word on this. Smile! Be free. Be blessed!
Lets say you bump into a church that doesn't do the tithe thing, a rarity indeed, don't hang up the phone until you find out if they function according to the deeds of the Nicolaitans, clerical/laity division. If they do, then they are still screwed up. Yea I know. I'm a mean and bitter guy. But at least I understand the word on this. Smile! Be free. Be blessed!
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T
having read a number of your contributions I am wondering what actual Church you attend. You appear to condemn a lot of practices you claim to have experienced, forced tithing in particular. That old saying comes to my mind about there being no such thing as a perfect Church. Have you found one? If so please let me know its name and whether it has branches in the UK.
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