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J
The wine that Jesus drank was customarily mixed with 1 to 2 parts of water. So the level of alcohol was much lower than people suppose. They also drank wine with their meals which also lowers the effect of the alcohol. I fail to see where a thimble full of wine would intoxicate anyone taking communion.
me too.
i also fail to see (in re: 1 Corinthians 11:21) where the 1st generation of believers were considering a thimble full of wine and a fingernail-sized bit of bread to be 'the Lord's supper'
. . but that's probably another thread.
i also fail to see (in re: 1 Corinthians 11:21) where the 1st generation of believers were considering a thimble full of wine and a fingernail-sized bit of bread to be 'the Lord's supper'
. . but that's probably another thread.
me too.
i also fail to see (in re: 1 Corinthians 11:21) where the 1st generation of believers were considering a thimble full of wine and a fingernail-sized bit of bread to be 'the Lord's supper'
. . but that's probably another thread.
i also fail to see (in re: 1 Corinthians 11:21) where the 1st generation of believers were considering a thimble full of wine and a fingernail-sized bit of bread to be 'the Lord's supper'
. . but that's probably another thread.
It is a time of remembrance not surfeiting.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
what i see from that chapter is that Paul wasn't calling them out over an excess of food available there -- but the fact that they weren't sharing. it wouldn't be an issue that 'some are going hungry' if there wasn't meant to be enough food to fill a belly -- and i don't know anyone whose appetite would be satisfied by what we call 'communion' in the modern day.
i don't think it's 'wrong' so much that we perform this ritualistically in the way we do, though i have my misgivings over how historically and scripturally accurate that is, but i do think we should at the very least consider what we call 'fellowship suppers' in the same way, in remembrance of Christ, and not gorging ourselves, but thinking of the needs of others.
does that make sense? because the description in 1 Corinthians 11 sure sounds more to me like a 'pot luck dinner' than the ceremony most western churches go through.
i don't think it's 'wrong' so much that we perform this ritualistically in the way we do, though i have my misgivings over how historically and scripturally accurate that is, but i do think we should at the very least consider what we call 'fellowship suppers' in the same way, in remembrance of Christ, and not gorging ourselves, but thinking of the needs of others.
does that make sense? because the description in 1 Corinthians 11 sure sounds more to me like a 'pot luck dinner' than the ceremony most western churches go through.
In communion my church used to use pure grape juice as a better representative than red wine of Jesus' shed blood. And also unleavened bread as a better rep of Jesus' body.
When i was younger at a methodist church it was wine and the white flake bread. I think the white cruscit style bead is unleavened but not sure.
Really important to do the Lords Supper rightly. Its to do with a local churches intimacy with God. If someone in the congregation is struggling with faithfulness to God they really shouldn't take part.
I know it gets done as a routine in many many supposed churches but that is not how it was done biblically. Its much much more than a ritual or routine.
When i was younger at a methodist church it was wine and the white flake bread. I think the white cruscit style bead is unleavened but not sure.
Really important to do the Lords Supper rightly. Its to do with a local churches intimacy with God. If someone in the congregation is struggling with faithfulness to God they really shouldn't take part.
I know it gets done as a routine in many many supposed churches but that is not how it was done biblically. Its much much more than a ritual or routine.
R
this practice was commanded by jesus...so it is not weird...it is biblical christianity...
in most places you are allowed to drink a small amount of communion wine even if you are below the normal drinking age...
also some churches require you to become a member or be a certain age before you can participate in communion...
in most places you are allowed to drink a small amount of communion wine even if you are below the normal drinking age...
also some churches require you to become a member or be a certain age before you can participate in communion...
S
No sir. That is a fallacy that has been taught by some churches. Many tell their congregation not to take communion if they are in any sin. All that is false doctrine. Lets look at a couple passages to prove it
Matthew 26:26-28King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP]And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
[SUP]28 [/SUP]For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Here Jesus is telling us that the wine is his blood for the remission of sin. How does it make any sense not to drink what is to get rid of sin, if you do have sin. The cup is the remedy for sin yet you are told not to take the remedy?
Many use one passage to say that you shouldn't take communion if you have sin and I will bolden that passage yet let's look at the verses before and after and I will explain.
1 Corinthians 11:20-34King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? what shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come.
The part I boldened is why many aren't allow to take communion if they have sin. That is ridiculous as I have shown from Matthew that the blood is the remedy for sin. Read the rest of that verse and you will see how you eat and drink damnation. "not discerning the Lord's body"
That is the whole issue in these passages. the people were coming to the Lord's supper and getting drunk and some were feasting and some were left hungry. It was nothing but a free for all party. They had no idea why they were there or what they were partaking of. That's why Paul is chastening them, because they were not giving the communion supper the dignity and respect it deserved, not discerning that they were partaking of the Lord's body. That's what eating unworthily is!
Matthew 26:26-28King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP]And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
[SUP]28 [/SUP]For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Here Jesus is telling us that the wine is his blood for the remission of sin. How does it make any sense not to drink what is to get rid of sin, if you do have sin. The cup is the remedy for sin yet you are told not to take the remedy?
Many use one passage to say that you shouldn't take communion if you have sin and I will bolden that passage yet let's look at the verses before and after and I will explain.
1 Corinthians 11:20-34King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? what shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come.
The part I boldened is why many aren't allow to take communion if they have sin. That is ridiculous as I have shown from Matthew that the blood is the remedy for sin. Read the rest of that verse and you will see how you eat and drink damnation. "not discerning the Lord's body"
That is the whole issue in these passages. the people were coming to the Lord's supper and getting drunk and some were feasting and some were left hungry. It was nothing but a free for all party. They had no idea why they were there or what they were partaking of. That's why Paul is chastening them, because they were not giving the communion supper the dignity and respect it deserved, not discerning that they were partaking of the Lord's body. That's what eating unworthily is!
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First, you need to understand what being a Christian means, before you start worrying about communion.
Jesus was prophecied in the Bible from after the Fall of humanity, when Adam and Eve disobeyed God's command to not eat of the tree in the Garden of Eden. We have also sinned which means that we have missed God's mark. We all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus," Romans 3:23-24
Jesus came to redeem us from the curse of sin. He was the only sinless person that ever lived. We deserve to die for our sin, because the wages of sin is death. But Jesus went to the cross and died in our place. That is God's grace.
When we believe that Jesus died for our sins, and rose again from the death, as well as repenting or turning away from sin, we are born again, and become followers of Jesus Christ.
Communion arises out of the memory of the death of Jesus Christ. We remember the blood he shed and the body that was broken on the cross - the blood is represented by the wine (grape juice in Baptist churches) and the bread being his body.
Jesus was prophecied in the Bible from after the Fall of humanity, when Adam and Eve disobeyed God's command to not eat of the tree in the Garden of Eden. We have also sinned which means that we have missed God's mark. We all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus," Romans 3:23-24
Jesus came to redeem us from the curse of sin. He was the only sinless person that ever lived. We deserve to die for our sin, because the wages of sin is death. But Jesus went to the cross and died in our place. That is God's grace.
When we believe that Jesus died for our sins, and rose again from the death, as well as repenting or turning away from sin, we are born again, and become followers of Jesus Christ.
Communion arises out of the memory of the death of Jesus Christ. We remember the blood he shed and the body that was broken on the cross - the blood is represented by the wine (grape juice in Baptist churches) and the bread being his body.
The blood in communion is a SYMBOL of a remedy for sin. Maybe you believe that anyway but thought I'd start with that first..
It's is true the context is of people feasting, getting drunk, leaving others hungry. Maybe it isn't right to not allow someone struggling with sin to drink of the cup..
But the very people in this passage WERE struggling with sin.. in terms of the drunkness, leaving others hungry etc.. therefore they were not worthy to drink of the cup.. not discerning the Lord's body.
Therefore there are circumstances where people would be turned away from partaking in the Lord's Supper if it were to be done in an unworthy manner.
So it isn't that there is no circumstance in which you could deny someone... this passage does show there is!
It's not just verse 26-- there is a whole chunk of the passage on this:
[SUP]25 [/SUP]After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
It's is true the context is of people feasting, getting drunk, leaving others hungry. Maybe it isn't right to not allow someone struggling with sin to drink of the cup..
But the very people in this passage WERE struggling with sin.. in terms of the drunkness, leaving others hungry etc.. therefore they were not worthy to drink of the cup.. not discerning the Lord's body.
Therefore there are circumstances where people would be turned away from partaking in the Lord's Supper if it were to be done in an unworthy manner.
So it isn't that there is no circumstance in which you could deny someone... this passage does show there is!
It's not just verse 26-- there is a whole chunk of the passage on this:
[SUP]25 [/SUP]After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
S
[SUP]28 [/SUP]But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
Yes, it says let him examine himself and let him eat. it doesn't say let him examine himself and if he is lacking he better not eat.
The whole context is eating in mind that this is a holy ceremony of partaking of the Lord's blood and body. If anyone can't accept that and wanted to act like a fool then I suppose they shouldn't partake, but Paul isn't denying them partaking because of sin. He is reminding them why they are taking the Lord's supper and that it is a holy thing to be treated holy.
The unworthy part is if they don't understand that they are partaking of the Lord's body and blood. They were getting drunk and some were eating too much and some weren't getting anything at all. As I said they were just having a big party. They weren't discerning that this is the Lord's body and blood to be treated holy, that is what brings damnation.
Yes, it says let him examine himself and let him eat. it doesn't say let him examine himself and if he is lacking he better not eat.
The whole context is eating in mind that this is a holy ceremony of partaking of the Lord's blood and body. If anyone can't accept that and wanted to act like a fool then I suppose they shouldn't partake, but Paul isn't denying them partaking because of sin. He is reminding them why they are taking the Lord's supper and that it is a holy thing to be treated holy.
The unworthy part is if they don't understand that they are partaking of the Lord's body and blood. They were getting drunk and some were eating too much and some weren't getting anything at all. As I said they were just having a big party. They weren't discerning that this is the Lord's body and blood to be treated holy, that is what brings damnation.
S
The blood in communion is a SYMBOL of a remedy for sin. Maybe you believe that anyway but thought I'd start with that first..
Yes, I understand it is a symol of the blood of Christ. What I am saying is that denying anyone to drink this symbol of Christ's blood because of sin in their life would be the same as saying that Christ's blood was shed to wash away your sins, but you can't be washed in the blood if you have any sin. Can't you see how ridiculous that is?
Yes, I understand it is a symol of the blood of Christ. What I am saying is that denying anyone to drink this symbol of Christ's blood because of sin in their life would be the same as saying that Christ's blood was shed to wash away your sins, but you can't be washed in the blood if you have any sin. Can't you see how ridiculous that is?
I guess it's symbolic of the last supper that Jesus had with his disciples before being crucified. I don't know how well I understand it, but he died for our sins. I found this in Wikipedia, describing the event:
Take this, all of you, and eat of it:
for this is my body which will be given up for you.
Take this, all of you, and drink from it:
for this is the chalice of my blood,
the blood of the new and eternal covenant.
which will be poured out for you and for many
for the forgiveness of sins .
Do this in memory of me.
Take this, all of you, and eat of it:
for this is my body which will be given up for you.
Take this, all of you, and drink from it:
for this is the chalice of my blood,
the blood of the new and eternal covenant.
which will be poured out for you and for many
for the forgiveness of sins .
Do this in memory of me.