Prostituting the gospel!

[Yet]

Not talking missions.

Paul, as an apostle, which is a preacher, one who takes the gospel to those that have not heard it. Missionaries come to mind.

He had a right to receive help if offered. Note, that I said if freely offered. Like Christ, he never took up an offering except to deliver it to struggling saints.

Jesus never passed the plate. Folks, in obscurity pretty much, would support Him.

Back to Paul. He refused even free will offerings that his gospel be not railed upon by evil men suggesting he was financially prospering from his preaching.

Wow!!!! Do you know of anyone who operates that way today? I didn't think so! The preachers today could not care less that the world is on to them. Having to much fun.

But still there is no scriptural problem for the itenerent preacher/teacher to accept offerings if it's the givers idea and not the preachers idea.. Jesus told the apostles to accept whatever is set before them. Talking food. Voluntary support.

One desiring the function, (not office) of deacon or bishop must not be covetious. Get to that in a sec.

Presebyters are elders. Bishops, deacons, teachers, pastors are all elders. They are synonymous. All teach at different levels. All watch over the sheep with great care. Bishops is from the word episcoples mean to oversee. Deacons is from diakonos meaning to wait on tables, to serve. Pastors speaks in the same sense, to watch over, to feed, not just the word but literal food, to see to the physical needs as well.

In 1Peter 5 you'll see where all these functions belong to all the elders. Elder as meaning older or more mature, been around the block a while.
In this chapter Paul tells the elders to watch over (bishop) the sheep and feed the flock (poimen-shepherd-pastor).

When they gathered, a love feast was in order. A banquet. Part of the fellowship. A pot luck if you please. Elders(deacons) would wait upon the folks, dishing up,food, serving as waiters. Today it is different. The King(pastor, most reverend) is waited upon and served. Puke!

So each descriptive designation simply defined the particular aspect of function. Some elders were better teachers but all taught. Some were more apt to serve up food and see to the physical care of the sheep but all served.

Take note: this is what we call communion today. A dumb cracker and a shot glass of welches. This MO was bequeathed to us, not from the bible, but from the catholic mass. Google it.

Back to the point in question. Elders that are indeed recognized and accepted as the more mature and learned among the flock(note that the word uses the term among, not above. 1Peter 5), are not to be covetious.

Covetious: Greek: etna: prostituting for rewards. Prostititutingictionary: compromising principles for personal financial gain.

However we don't live by principles, we are to live by and obey the word of God. We can quibble over the 'principle' deal but to the chase.
Prostituting His word for cash, for fun and profit is soundly rejected by God's word. Freely we have received, freely we should give. Again I'm talking about the biblically sanctioned assembly of which today would be an anomaly. Sad. But I have hope God is going to bring much of the body back to His word on this.
.

 

[shotgunner]

You had better stop this! I'm telling you for your own good. None of us approve of covetousness. You however have a problem that you need to get solved real quick. You are not serving God in this. You will destroy yourself if you continue in this hate.

 

[Yet]

You had better stop this! I'm telling you for your own good. None of us approve of covetousness. You however have a problem that you need to get solved real quick. You are not serving God in this. You will destroy yourself if you continue in this hate.

Hate?? Since when is correcting with the pure word of God hate?

See folks? That's how far we have strayed from the truth of the gospel. God loves you Shotgun. I'm not mad at you. Just sad for you.

 

[shotgunner]

Hate?? Since when is correcting with the pure word of God hate?

See folks? That's how far we have strayed from the truth of the gospel. God loves you Shotgun. I'm not mad at you. Just sad for you.

I'm not mad at you either. God loves you too. You really are hurting yourself in this though. You need to get some Godly council and get rid of this hate that is driving you. I can see the hate in several of your posts. You despise any pastor who is earning his living from the congregation. You my friend are the one who is raving.

Even if you have been wronged by some pastor you can't live in this kind of hate. You are not to even hate your enemies. You are operating under the wrong spirit.

 

[Yet]

Nothing really new under the sun except that we should know better....He dwells within us, we have the written word and things are worse!

Judges sell verdicts to the highest bidder, priests mass market their teaching, prophets preach(teach) for high fees, all the while posturing and pretending dependence on God! Micah 3:11. Msg.


Think: the big auditorium meetings. Only for the rich that can buy the ticket. The poor need not come!
Tables in the foyer loaded with books and cd's. Prices beyond the reach of the poor. Only the rich Christians need approach the tables. Bless their hearts!

At least the poor aren't sucked into all the heresy teachings these snake oil salesmen are hocking.

But it's worse than that. The local assembly demanding ten percent of a minimum wage pay check. Oh the darkness is thick!

Sorry dear widows and poor. Sucks to be you, is the attitude!

 

[Yet]

I'm not mad at you either. God loves you too. You really are hurting yourself in this though. You need to get some Godly council and get rid of this hate that is driving you. I can see the hate in several of your posts. You despise any pastor who is earning his living from the congregation. You my friend are the one who is raving.

Even if you have been wronged by some pastor you can't live in this kind of hate. You are not to even hate your enemies. You are operating under the wrong spirit.

When Jesus turned the tables over in the church in Jerusalem, was that hate.
Sounds like you have been silenced by a pastor somewhere. You know, touch not His anointed line.

You don't have any understanding of the difference between 'hate' and 'righteous anger'. You need to study the prophets. They spoke the word to a willingly deaf religious leadership.

Paul had no small contention with another believer. When truth has been shaded , down through church history, God always raised a few voices to rebuke it and re-establish His will.

My kind, but misguided friend, that's not hate, that's pure undefiled love.

The widows and poor are being defrauded. My heart goes out to them. You define that as 'hate'. So be it. I guess my concern for them is hate!

 

[Willie-T]

When Jesus turned the tables over in the church in Jerusalem, was that hate.
Sounds like you have been silenced by a pastor somewhere. You know, touch not His anointed line.

You don't have any understanding of the difference between 'hate' and 'righteous anger'. You need to study the prophets. They spoke the word to a willingly deaf religious leadership.

Paul had no small contention with another believer. When truth has been shaded , down through church history, God always raised a few voices to rebuke it and re-establish His will.

My kind, but misguided friend, that's not hate, that's pure undefiled love.

The widows and poor are being defrauded. My heart goes out to them. You define that as 'hate'. So be it. I guess my concern for them is hate!

Did Jesus say even one single word against the people running the Synagogue when the widow gave that "mite?" Did He say they were robbing her?

 

[shotgunner]

When Jesus turned the tables over in the church in Jerusalem, was that hate.
Sounds like you have been silenced by a pastor somewhere. You know, touch not His anointed line.

You don't have any understanding of the difference between 'hate' and 'righteous anger'. You need to study the prophets. They spoke the word to a willingly deaf religious leadership.

Paul had no small contention with another believer. When truth has been shaded , down through church history, God always raised a few voices to rebuke it and re-establish His will.

My kind, but misguided friend, that's not hate, that's pure undefiled love.

The widows and poor are being defrauded. My heart goes out to them. You define that as 'hate'. So be it. I guess my concern for them is hate!

Jesus ran the money changers out because they were working with the priests to sell salvation. The Priests would tell the people that only the temple sacrificial animals were worthy to be used in sacrifice and the money changers would charge extreme amounts of money. They were selling salvation! I've never heard a single pastor say that you were going to hell if you didn't pay tithe or give offerings. I don't think you have either.

You are not God's voice!

If you want to help poor people then do something to help them. Teach them how to give so that it is given again to them, good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over. Teach them how to manage their money. Teach them how to believe beyond a government check! Teach them how to trust God for everything they need!

You aren't on a campaign to help. You are on a campaign to tear down. Don't be Satan's pawn.

 

[Angela53510]

To the OP. Just STOP! Please!

You have not won a single convert to your bitter rhetoric. My advice is to read the Psalms and get a job. Then you won't have to worry about money all the time.

Posted in love! Because sometimes a gentle rebuke is needed.

"Better is open rebuke than hidden love." Prov. 27:5

"Declare these things; exhort and rebuke with all authority. Let no one disregard you." Titus 2:15

"let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins." James 5:20

 

[posthuman]

If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather?
(1 Corinthians 9:12)
​

Barnabas and Paul may not have asked for support from the churches they founded and ministered to, but the force of Paul's argument here in 1 Corinthians 9 seems to include as fact that other apostles and/or ministers of the gospel did receive support.

Yet, i am sure you have read 1 Cor. 9 -- so don't you agree with it? that those involved in the the Lord's work have every right to be supported by the church? you make so many posts that make it sound like you don't.

 

[posthuman]

But still there is no scriptural problem for the itenerent preacher/teacher to accept offerings if it's the givers idea and not the preachers idea..

i think you ought to re-read 1 Corinthians 9.

those ministering the gospel have in fact a right to demand to be supported by offerings.

Don’t you know that those who serve in the temple get their food from the temple, and that those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar? In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.
(1 Corinthians 9:13-14)​

to be sure, it is well that if do not exercise that right.
but Paul in no uncertain terms explains that it is a right.

 

[weakness]

Did Jesus say even one single word against the people running the Synagogue when the widow gave that "mite?" Did He say they were robbing her?

The main point of the widows mite is that she did not give out of her abundance, but gave out of her need, she gave all she had. In comparison the pharisee in his apparel and hypocrisy, filled with pride and contention looked down on some one who obeyed Jesus in giving all she had. "Unless a man forsakes all he has he cannot be my disciple"This post brings to mind the multimillion dollar buildings, the parking lots full of cars of equal value and the admonition to remember the poor given by the church at Jerusalem. Also paul didn't reject money . He even told the Corinthians that he expected for them to bring him on his way into Macedonia so they could have a benefit also. Paul was saying that he would not be chargeable to them, that as a father it was himself that was responsible to supply his needs and not to give excuse that he was using them for money ,although other apostles did. we don't lay up for our heavenly Father , he supplies our needs. And Paul even said that this could be misconstrued. As far as covetousness there is not enough that could be said about it , since it is the Main problem in the western world. The merchants make themselves rich and the harlot decks herself with all the luxury this world can offer.

 

[Willie-T]

Did Jesus say even one single word against the people running the Synagogue when the widow gave that "mite?" Did He say they were robbing her?

The main point of the widows mite is that she did not give out of her abundance, but gave out of her need, she gave all she had. In comparison the pharisee in his apparel and hypocrisy, filled with pride and contention looked down on some one who obeyed Jesus in giving all she had. "Unless a man forsakes all he has he cannot be my disciple"This post brings to mind the multimillion dollar buildings, the parking lots full of cars of equal value and the admonition to remember the poor given by the church at Jerusalem. Also paul didn't reject money . He even told the Corinthians that he expected for them to bring him on his way into Macedonia so they could have a benefit also. Paul was saying that he would not be chargeable to them, that as a father it was himself that was responsible to supply his needs and not to give excuse that he was using them for money ,although other apostles did. we don't lay up for our heavenly Father , he supplies our needs. And Paul even said that this could be misconstrued. As far as covetousness there is not enough that could be said about it , since it is the Main problem in the western world. The merchants make themselves rich and the harlot decks herself with all the luxury this world can offer.

So, what that a, "Yes", or a "No" to my question?

 

[weakness]

Jesus ran the money changers out because they were working with the priests to sell salvation. The Priests would tell the people that only the temple sacrificial animals were worthy to be used in sacrifice and the money changers would charge extreme amounts of money. They were selling salvation! I've never heard a single pastor say that you were going to hell if you didn't pay tithe or give offerings. I don't think you have either.​The poor in other places don't have a government check, the have NO money or food. a while back refugees were walking a hundred miles just to get water . along the road would be their dead children to weak to make it. Do you know what poverty is ? Thousands die every day. The US has exploited Africa for ever. They like their gold, diamonds and natural resources. I have been hearing about feeding the starving in Africa for 50 years, but it still goes on. There are some who have laid down their lives to help and suffer with them every day as Christ does. What a real testimony of Gods love.

You are not God's voice!

If you want to help poor people then do something to help them. Teach them how to give so that it is given again to them, good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over. Teach them how to manage their money. Teach them how to believe beyond a government check! Teach them how to trust God for everything they need!

You aren't on a campaign to help. You are on a campaign to tear down. Don't be Satan's pawn.

I sense some real bitterness in the response. Aren't we suppose to lay down are lives for the truly needy? What will you say when Jesus says I never knew YOU.OH when did we feed you or give you to drink or cloth you? When you have done it unto the least of these my brethren. Come out from among her and be not a partaker of the whores's sins.

 

[shotgunner]

It seems to me that the lavish lifestyle of some ministers and the extravagant church buildings are used far too often as an excuse to not give into any ministry.


Those using that excuse really should look into the lavishness of the old temple, and the lifestyle of priests. Jesus himself wore a garment woven whole without seam that was costly enough to be gambled for. Solomon was blessed by God and he didn't give away all he had and trudge around in nothing but rags. David gave personally over 3000 talents of gold and 7000 talents of silver to build that super lavish temple.


What would we say of a man today who gave millions into building a mega church? Would we complain that he was taken advantage of by money hungry ministers? Would we complain that the money should have been given to the poor instead? How would you feel about a mega church that wanted to line the walls with gold?


Those that have a hard time giving, really need to think about these things. God just may have a different idea about money and his servants than you do.

 

[Yet]

Read the whole chapter. Jesus was talking about devouring widows houses. The well to do Pharisees taking all the living from a poor widow.......you bet Willy...bet God was smiling on that one.

 

[Willie-T]

It seems to me that the lavish lifestyle of some ministers and the extravagant church buildings are used far too often as an excuse to not give into any ministry.


Those using that excuse really should look into the lavishness of the old temple, and the lifestyle of priests. Jesus himself wore a garment woven whole without seam that was costly enough to be gambled for. Solomon was blessed by God and he didn't give away all he had and trudge around in nothing but rags. David gave personally over 3000 talents of gold and 7000 talents of silver to build that super lavish temple.


What would we say of a man today who gave millions into building a mega church? Would we complain that he was taken advantage of by money hungry ministers? Would we complain that the money should have been given to the poor instead? How would you feel about a mega church that wanted to line the walls with gold?


Those that have a hard time giving, really need to think about these things. God just may have a different idea about money and his servants than you do.

This is SO true. The complainers could EASILY go find some poor, struggling church, or a Pastor barely feeding his family, or even just a family with no place to stay, and start supporting them to the tune of a few hundred dollars a month.... every month... but, often, they really don't bother.

It's easier to knock others.

 

[Galahad]

Not talking missions.

Paul, as an apostle, which is a preacher, one who takes the gospel to those that have not heard it. Missionaries come to mind.

He had a right to receive help if offered. Note, that I said if freely offered. Like Christ, he never took up an offering except to deliver it to struggling saints.

Jesus never passed the plate. Folks, in obscurity pretty much, would support Him.

Back to Paul. He refused even free will offerings that his gospel be not railed upon by evil men suggesting he was financially prospering from his preaching.

Wow!!!! Do you know of anyone who operates that way today? I didn't think so! The preachers today could not care less that the world is on to them. Having to much fun.

But still there is no scriptural problem for the itenerent preacher/teacher to accept offerings if it's the givers idea and not the preachers idea.. Jesus told the apostles to accept whatever is set before them. Talking food. Voluntary support.

One desiring the function, (not office) of deacon or bishop must not be covetious. Get to that in a sec.

Presebyters are elders. Bishops, deacons, teachers, pastors are all elders. They are synonymous. All teach at different levels. All watch over the sheep with great care. Bishops is from the word episcoples mean to oversee. Deacons is from diakonos meaning to wait on tables, to serve. Pastors speaks in the same sense, to watch over, to feed, not just the word but literal food, to see to the physical needs as well.

In 1Peter 5 you'll see where all these functions belong to all the elders. Elder as meaning older or more mature, been around the block a while.
In this chapter Paul tells the elders to watch over (bishop) the sheep and feed the flock (poimen-shepherd-pastor).

When they gathered, a love feast was in order. A banquet. Part of the fellowship. A pot luck if you please. Elders(deacons) would wait upon the folks, dishing up,food, serving as waiters. Today it is different. The King(pastor, most reverend) is waited upon and served. Puke!

So each descriptive designation simply defined the particular aspect of function. Some elders were better teachers but all taught. Some were more apt to serve up food and see to the physical care of the sheep but all served.

Take note: this is what we call communion today. A dumb cracker and a shot glass of welches. This MO was bequeathed to us, not from the bible, but from the catholic mass. Google it.

Back to the point in question. Elders that are indeed recognized and accepted as the more mature and learned among the flock(note that the word uses the term among, not above. 1Peter 5), are not to be covetious.

Covetious: Greek: etna: prostituting for rewards. Prostititutingictionary: compromising principles for personal financial gain.

However we don't live by principles, we are to live by and obey the word of God. We can quibble over the 'principle' deal but to the chase.
Prostituting His word for cash, for fun and profit is soundly rejected by God's word. Freely we have received, freely we should give. Again I'm talking about the biblically sanctioned assembly of which today would be an anomaly. Sad. But I have hope God is going to bring much of the body back to His word on this.
.

Sell your guitars and banjos and hat and house. And go and give the money to the poor.

 

[Galahad]

Sell your guitars and banjos and hat and house. And go and give the money to the poor.

Oh, and that leather jacket. Sell it, too.

 

[shotgunner]

This is SO true. The complainers could EASILY go find some poor, struggling church, or a Pastor barely feeding his family, or even just a family with no place to stay, and start supporting them to the tune of a few hundred dollars a month.... every month... but, often, they really don't bother.

It's easier to knock others.

Willie
It's been my experience that those with a heart to give, always give. I never hear them complaining about how some ministries may take advantage, though they would despise that just as much as anyone. They don't complain and they don't brag they just do what's right. It's always the ones that covet money that are complaining, remember Judas?