about tithes

[bafa]

Hi there and blessed day!
i'd like to hear from you about tithes, just share anything you can about how do you define tithes..

my share:
16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.
18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.
19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.
20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.
21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.
Acts 1:16-26

 

[BenFTW]

Tithes: A testament to God's faithfulness to His word. That is how I see tithes, that God is not a liar.

 

[Dino246]

Tithe means tenth (ordinal) or one-tenth (fraction), simple as that. As to how it is used in Scripture, an exhaustive concordance can answer that. As for Christian practice, that is a different issue, one which is sure to evoke disagreement. Some of us believe that tithing is for Christians, some believe that tithing is part of the Old Covenant law which was fulfilled in Christ. We can quote Scripture at you, and each other, and not convince anyone.

May I ask for clarification on your OP? The scripture quoted doesn't seem to connect with your question, which is fine; I'm just wondering if you saw a connection.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Hebrews 10:1
For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

The tithe given in the law of Moses has nothing to do with money, as many false teachers misrepresent today in order to fleece the flock for greedy gain. The tithe of the harvest, first ripe, first fruits, and of the flock was given to the Levites as a sign (shadow) of greater things to come in the Lords true priesthood and holy portion. But sadly few have ears to hear what the Spirit is saying in the spiritual law.

Galatians 4:21
Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

 

[jb]

about tithes

You can a few thoughts Here on tithing and giving...

Yahweh Shalom

 

[ENLIGHTEND]

well that's because people will interpret the bible however it behooves them. somebody who preaces sacrifice charity better not be a millionaiar. like all those crooks on tv who take old ladys pensions and tell them god will bless them. hate is a strong word. but I hate those phoneys who use god to steal. they know what there doing there all atheists who learned the bible and use it for evil

 

[Yet]

Tithes: A testament to God's faithfulness to His word. That is how I see tithes, that God is not a liar.

Tithes? A testament to satans cleverness to his deception. That is how it is about the false tithe, that the devil is a liar!

Not just TV charlatans devouring widows houses. The local 'church' can do the same.
Why do we differentiate between the two thefts? Thievery is thievery even if it is a po-preacher doing the thieving as a opposed to the million dollar preachers doing the thieving!

 

[Lancelot]

The tithe was used in the Old Covenant to provide for the priesthood, and it was taken from farmers and herdsmen. Anybody who worked in a skilled trade wasn't required to tithe. The tithing that people advocate today is no more the biblical mandate for tithing than going to church on Sunday is the biblical mandate for keeping the Sabbath. If people really knew how unscriptural the teaching on tithing is they would turn en masse against the people teaching it. Here's what my friend Marcus has to say about it.

 

[Agricola]

FOrget the word "Tithe" as it carries many meanings and baggage for different people. Instead look at the intention of tithe was, that is give back to God something for which you have been provided. How much and who you give to, the Holy Spirit will prompt you, it does not have to be 10% and it does not have to go to your pastor and church.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

The tithe was used in the Old Covenant to provide for the priesthood, and it was taken from farmers and herdsmen. Anybody who worked in a skilled trade wasn't required to tithe. The tithing that people advocate today is no more the biblical mandate for tithing than going to church on Sunday is the biblical mandate for keeping the Sabbath. If people really knew how unscriptural the teaching on tithing is they would turn en masse against the people teaching it. Here's what my friend Marcus has to say about it.

I suppose then you consider Abraham a fool or at least a weak victim, who tithed without a commandment to tithe (430 years before Moses' law) to Melchizedek, the king of Salem, one who shared in victory with other area kings in the war. You would propose turning against that man too? You should read up in Hebrews 6:13-8:13. You will find Jesus is described by Paul as in heaven receiving tithes, as deserving as men on earth that die.

Here's where you have really missed it. 1 Corinthians 9:9-14 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?
[SUP]12 [/SUP] If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

It means they are approved of Jesus to make their living from their ministering, given through the hands of those ministered to. Even as tithes assured that would happen for ancient Israel, tithes will do the same today. Tipping your waitress who needs tips to make a small salary meet her needs a quarter for a $100 table? That's robbery and cruelty combined. Shameful! So what makes tipping a preacher a dollar bill right, in doing that not likely making a significant move toward assuring his iiving is made from his preaching? Only of he tells them not to offer to him because he is already blessed can a Christian be released from that obligation. It's an obligation because the Lord ordained it so.

Some ministers. like most TV ministers, were investigated by a US Senator and other dignitaries, looking into claims they are abusing poor people. It turned out, and remains so as certified by independent accountants, none take a salary from their congregation. They write books and make videos for sale, like any author might to make a living. Many of them are selling millions of those world-wide, becoming very wealthy scripturally. Paul had a tent-making business, so didn't require offerings for himself, but took them up for suffering saints.

Another gross error in your post claims only farmers and herdsmen tithed. That's where the most came from, those with land and blessed with produce being the wealthiest people in Israel. Through scriptures and separate Jewish historical writings all others, such as tradesmen, brought gold, silver, other metals, wood, furniture, hardware, and everything else the Levities might need. Money most often represents the gain a person acquires from working.

 

[Malu]

Agreed To this

 

[Word_Swordsman]

Tithing has always been based on the first 10% of a person's increase (gain) during a specific period.
Tithe" is "tenth part". It has nothing to do with submitting immaterial things, such as giving some of your free time to help. That's in the offering/ministerial category. It's why Abraham refused to let the king take the people instead of the goods. He tithed the objects, the booty of war, not anything to do with the people he liberated from the enemy.

When Israel began returning home from captivity, some asked the prophet Malachi "what happened" (70 years previous), not knowing exactly where Israel went so wrong. Why such devastation? The answer included the failure to keep tithing. They had robbed God. That in effect tied God's hands from blessing them. Why would God hire a robber to steal his goods?

After tithing the past 39 years, I've been noticing things about folks who always lack blessings. People come asking for help to pay some bills. In counseling them, a fair question is where does all the stuff come from that goes into their frequent yard sales. Much of it is new, or just unwrapped but not used. They spend their money on whatever they see, then pile it up to sell it ten cents on the dollar. How much better to have yielded at least the 10% of those revenues in tithing, supporting their local church?
What of that 90% they lost, retrieving only the pennies of it, owning so much stuff they can't use or eat it, bought with credit cards, stacking up fearful balances? it's a terrible habit of waste for many.

Other than clothing, I rarely buy anything new. I still check out some garage sales, buying their new stuff like rare fishing lures. A lot of really nice furniture and appliances are then given to worthy causes, like a family whose home burned, insurance coming well short of replacing it all. It isn't necessary to store it up. Just take them along to some yard sales and buy what they need, then help get it home. Having that habit, the 10% tithe is not a burden in any way, qualifying me for promises associated with tithing. That then allows me to give offerings above the tithe, which has special blessings to giver and receiver, promoting the gospel in ways not likely by word alone. I make sure I don't rob God in order to use his dues to claim a freewill offering that would not be blessed in any way.

Notice it isn't likely a burglar would declare his illegal income sources to the tax man. A robber can't be blessed, his sin magnified to robbing the tax collector, and deceiving, and remaining under a spirit of fear. Unconfessed sin begets more sin. Robbers of God tend to not ask God for anything in honest faith, settling for whatever they can scrape up. I am very pleased to be able to ask God for whatever I shouldn't try to do on my own, having a much easier life than many people. When fear comes against us we don't let it in, but declare we are children of God, tithers, and will not be robbed. The Lord helps me not to absorb fear, so I can step out in faith, supporting ministries past our natural force. We send it to ministries devoid of unbelief, strong on the word of God, intolerant of deliberate sin, the enemy entirely outside their door.

Be a good steward of what God lets come your way.

 

[meccalli]

If you compare and contrast the concept of tithing as was outlined in the Bible and the modern world. Your taxes would be your tithe. Tithes were mandatory and not bounded to the concept of gifting. Obligatory giving would have been under first fruit and free will offering.
Of course you should always give freely, as everything we have, we give it up to God for it's his and given to us to bless others.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

FOrget the word "Tithe" as it carries many meanings and baggage for different people. Instead look at the intention of tithe was, that is give back to God something for which you have been provided. How much and who you give to, the Holy Spirit will prompt you, it does not have to be 10% and it does not have to go to your pastor and church.

So, you attend a nice church building, the pastor there for you, preaching and teaching, local missions alongside other believers, but pass the plate empty? You are perhaps not concerned whether the staff there can pay their bills, tending the "altar" for you continually? Let the church roof leak, the water stay disconnected, no lights due to too few supporters?

The ministers ought to go sell used cars for a living, then devote their remaining lives to serving needs of the congregation? An appeal is made to help them keep their home, but you perhaps ignore such things, not even attending a budget meeting, but mailing a dollar bill while sending money elsewhere? I would dread the possibility of getting that unopened mail stamped RETURN TO SENDER and postmarked Heaven. Impossible you might think, dear readers? God will not be mocked.

You like the idea of yourself determined from now on to live off tips? Why demand a regular income just because you work so many hours a week? Let your employer offer a dollar and cup of coffee, and be satisfied with his offering. If that's unreasonable, then what of the minister? 1 Corinthians 9:14 (KJV) Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

If anyone says they have nothing to do with church attendance or reasonable fellowship/assembly with reasonable accountability to elders/deacons/pastors/teachers/peers/etc, then your problem is much greater than the issue of tithing. I wouldn't try to reinvent the church. False cults led by deceivers do that.

 

[Dino246]

Tithing has always been based on the first 10% of a person's increase (gain) during a specific period. Tithe" is "tenth part".

Leviticus 27:2 says, "The entire tithe of the herd and flock--every tenth animal that passes under the shepherd's rod--will be holy to the Lord." In this case it is the tenth (ordinal) part, not the first part of ten. By your logic, the man with eleven animals gives two, but by Scripture, he gives one.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

If you compare and contrast the concept of tithing as was outlined in the Bible and the modern world. Your taxes would be your tithe. Tithes were mandatory and not bounded to the concept of gifting. Obligatory giving would have been under first fruit and free will offering.
Of course you should always give freely, as everything we have, we give it up to God for it's his and given to us to bless others.

Jesus told the rich young ruler to give all he had then follow him. Other than that one man, God is not on record asking for everything we have in our hands. He lets us be stewards of his creation, while yielding our mind, spirit and body as living sacrifices. It's not our stuff he wants. But some stuff we hold is his property, seed, of which he is entitled through the tithe. It is God then who blesses the obedient through the obedient. Jesus receives our tithes in spirit, letting mortal men on earth who preach the gospel receive the substance of things hoped for.

Jesus clarified the tax/tithe issue in Matthew 22:19-21 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?
[SUP]21 [/SUP] They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

Satan is succeeding in the closure of about 7,000 churches in America each year. Much of the problem is an ever dwindling support of church finances, and far fewer people engaged in anything "church". In direct proportion to all that is an ever decreasing prosperity in America. The super rich are accumulating the wealth, can vanish to their hideaways, while the majority perish from lack of vision, lack of word from God, lack of opportunity to spread the gospel, lack of ability to help anyone, even often themselves. Children of God ought to prosper regardless of what the rich are doing.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

Leviticus 27:2 says, "The entire tithe of the herd and flock--every tenth animal that passes under the shepherd's rod--will be holy to the Lord." In this case it is the tenth (ordinal) part, not the first part of ten. By your logic, the man with eleven animals gives two, but by Scripture, he gives one.

Lev 27:32 is the one you meant.

That whole chapter is about special offerings, free will not commanded by law, but the manner is which such an offering was made had to follow the law for freewill offerings.

In the case of 11 animals passing under the rod, only number 10 would have been selected by putting a red mark on it, unlike selecting an animal without spot or blemish for an offering of commandment. If the man offering desired to redeem a selected animal he could pay the estimated value of it to the priest, then take it back home.

In there is provision for a man dedicating part of his farm to the Lord, yet can continue using it. The priest would evaluate it's worth based on production, then collect that instead.

Whole different deal than the tithe. The animals of tithe were subject to acceptance or rejection by the priests.

All this objection to a a provision for ministers ordained by God is not flattering to the body of Christ. I'm seeing arguments the Devil would make. There is nothing evil about tithing, never condemned by the Lord who honored tithers, and still does. Where is it written to stop tithing? Taking opposition to that is selfishness. Forget what the law says about it, look at the other cases in the Bible. What the law said about it was for the Jews, adding curses to failure in that. Look to what Abraham did, and how Jesus handles it.

You can keep your dime on the dollar and try to do well without his help. You are not forced by the Lord to tithe. However, there's potential discomfort for those who would violate what the Lord is doing with tithers and those he is leading to tithe.

He's under no obligation of blessing for robbers of the tithe. Lots of robbers are never caught and dealt with in this life, but if you know one then you have a robber in your midst. Such folks I know who don't do their reasonable duty of support for the gospel, as directed by the Lord, tend to be takers more than givers, the first to criticize others over what others are actually doing, not just saying for the Lord.

 

[Stephen63]

The OT laws on tithing are much more complicated than 10%. Here is scripture on tithing in the NT:

Luke 11:42 (KJV) But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
[HR][/HR]Luke 18:12 (KJV) I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
[HR][/HR]Hebrews 7:5 (KJV) And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
[HR][/HR]Hebrews 7:6 (KJV) But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
[HR][/HR]Hebrews 7:8 (KJV) And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
[HR][/HR]Hebrews 7:9 (KJV) And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.

The two in Luke speak under the old covenant, 'cuz Jesus hadn't ushered in the New Covenant yet. The others speak only of past tithe giving by Abraham.

There is NO scripture in the NT that teaches continuing the tithe.

But..... The NT teaches giving..... here's one example:

2 Corinthians 9:6-14 (KJV) [SUP]6 [/SUP]But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. [SUP]8 [/SUP]And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work: [SUP]9 [/SUP](As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever. [SUP]10 [/SUP]Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness [SUP]11 [/SUP]Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God. [SUP]12 [/SUP]For the administration of this service not only supplieth the want of the saints, but is abundant also by many thanksgivings unto God; [SUP]13 [/SUP]Whiles by the experiment of this ministration they glorify God for your professed subjection unto the gospel of Christ, and for your liberal distribution unto them, and unto all men; [SUP]14 [/SUP]And by their prayer for you, which long after you for the exceeding grace of God in you.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

There is NO scripture in the NT that teaches continuing the tithe.

But..... The NT teaches giving..... here's one example:

You have it under your nose. Hebrews 7 is conclusive. Jesus is the last High Priest, after the eternal ORDER of Melchizedek.
Jesus has the same rights that priest/king had.

Freewill giving was part of the law, also taught in the NT. The promises for freewill giving are not as great as the tithe promises. Both are good.

The fact that Paul devoted that much scripture to the likenesses of the two priesthoods and covenants concerning this topic should be an indication of their importance to be understood.

How can you reconcile a NT covenant commandment concerning preachers of the gospel deserving the same financial setup as the old priesthood, a budgetary income, already known to the roving Levites (assessors in our modern terms) before the time of tithing once a year, with a rejection of the ordained method of support? The only way to do it is by tithes and offerings. If the people had a bad agri year they could make up for a shortfall in tithes with offerings of anything freewill offered with some restrictions.

Taking away the tithe is like telling employees there won't be any more paychecks, but they can use the office phones, take part in company buffets from time to time, and receive a few tips as profits rise. What you are saying is no less absurd. You have no authority to deny the efficacy of tithing in terms of support of Christian ministers, that being well understood of most Christians Paul wrote to, needing no deep study about it. He wrote about it anyway.

Comprehend the word of God. Read Heb 7 over and over. You'll surely find it.

 

[Lancelot]

I suppose then you consider Abraham a fool or at least a weak victim, who tithed without a commandment to tithe (430 years before Moses' law) to Melchizedek, the king of Salem, one who shared in victory with other area kings in the war. You would propose turning against that man too? You should read up in Hebrews 6:13-8:13. You will find Jesus is described by Paul as in heaven receiving tithes, as deserving as men on earth that die.

Here's where you have really missed it. 1 Corinthians 9:9-14 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?
[SUP]12 [/SUP] If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

It means they are approved of Jesus to make their living from their ministering, given through the hands of those ministered to. Even as tithes assured that would happen for ancient Israel, tithes will do the same today. Tipping your waitress who needs tips to make a small salary meet her needs a quarter for a $100 table? That's robbery and cruelty combined. Shameful! So what makes tipping a preacher a dollar bill right, in doing that not likely making a significant move toward assuring his iiving is made from his preaching? Only of he tells them not to offer to him because he is already blessed can a Christian be released from that obligation. It's an obligation because the Lord ordained it so.

Some ministers. like most TV ministers, were investigated by a US Senator and other dignitaries, looking into claims they are abusing poor people. It turned out, and remains so as certified by independent accountants, none take a salary from their congregation. They write books and make videos for sale, like any author might to make a living. Many of them are selling millions of those world-wide, becoming very wealthy scripturally. Paul had a tent-making business, so didn't require offerings for himself, but took them up for suffering saints.

Another gross error in your post claims only farmers and herdsmen tithed. That's where the most came from, those with land and blessed with produce being the wealthiest people in Israel. Through scriptures and separate Jewish historical writings all others, such as tradesmen, brought gold, silver, other metals, wood, furniture, hardware, and everything else the Levities might need. Money most often represents the gain a person acquires from working.

1. Abraham didn't "pay" tithes. On one occasion (and only one that we have record of) he gave the king of Salem 10% of the spoils of war and he gave the king of Sodom the other 90%. In doing so he provided a type of the Levitical tithing system under the Old Covenant.

2. Hebrews 6 - 8 is talking about the need for a new covenant and the eternal priesthood of Jesus who is the antitype of Melchizedek. There is no mention of tithing under the new covenant.

3. I Corinthians 9 - Here you make a common mistake of confusing opposition to the teaching of tithing with opposition to supporting the work of God through the New Testament church. The admonition to the church is non-compulsory giving, not tithing. I believe that Christians should give all they can, which in many cases far exceeds 10%. Many can't afford to give 10% however, and don't need to be burdened with guilt or called "God robbers" because of that. "Don't muzzle the ox" is a valid principle, but it doesn't equate to compulsory tithing.

4. Tradesmen were not required to tithe under the Old Covenant. Whatever they brought to the Levites would fall under the category of offerings which the New Covenant encourages.

In your subsequent comments you offer anecdotal evidence to support tithing, but anecdotal evidence could also be provided for people who have tithed faithfully and found themselves struggling financially, as well as for people who didn't tithe and prospered. We don't determine the validity of a doctrine through anecdotal evidence but through exegesis, and through a thorough study of the subject you will find that there are no instructions to the early church to tithe any more than there are for the early church to practice circumcision or keep the Sabbath. All of that was done away with when the New Covenant came into effect.

II Corinthians 9:6,7 give us the New Testament guidelines for giving. "But this I say: He who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver."