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Thread: Discussing the Garden of eden event

  1. #81
    Senior Member posthuman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discussing the Garden of eden event

    here's something on 8th day creation --

    http://emahiser.christogenea.org/origin-6th-8th-day-creation-theory

    i find links to it in many 'watchman' titled websites, though i'm only parsing & not really reading through them.
    seems like a JW thing that's controversial even among themselves.
    ((just my impression without really digging into it))
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  2. #82
    Senior Member onlinebuddy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discussing the Garden of eden event

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanashankar View Post
    The Hebrew in Genesis 1:27 is in the indefinite, not the PAST tense. Here are the words directly from an Hebrew Interlinear:

    "An He is creatING [present, progressive, future tense--not 'creatED' as in the King James], the human, in the Image of Him, in the Image of Elohim He creatES [not creatED] him, male and female He creatES them."


    Yea, not greek, but Hebrew. Its not necessary to study greek or hebrew to know the word of God. But certain things we have to be sure, right???? After all not one english translation is free of error.
    Generally a sentence makes sense when the same tense is used throughout, although there can be exceptions.
    You are saying that the Hebrew version uses present indefinite or present progressive tense (creating) once, and simple present tense (creates) twice in the same sentence. Does not make sense at all.

    According to you, God CREATED (past perfect tense) everything else. This means that the work was completed.
    ...but he is still CREATING(present progressive tense) man in his image- work not completed
    and
    in God's image he creates (simple present tense) him, male and female he creates (simple present tense) them- work completed. Does not make sense!!!

    If you check out the below-mentioned website, it says "created" and is in agreement with Strong's Hebrew Dictionary.
    Genesis 1 Interlinear Bible

    Do you have a physical Heb interlinear Bible? Or are you studying from an online source?
    Kindly show me via web link or snapshot that the hebrew word is 'CREATING' and not 'created'

    If you want to teach someone the Bible, especially when you are referring to the Hebrew text, and are rejecting other translations (such as the English translations), you MUST know Hebrew.
    You are making a very very very tall claim here, without even knowing Hebrew.
    When you refer to a Hebrew interlinear Bible, without knowing Hebrew, you are actually depending on a Hebrew dictionary written by someone, and not your own understanding.
    I'm not at all convinced!

  3. #83
    Senior Member onlinebuddy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discussing the Garden of eden event

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanashankar View Post
    They were given a "choice", but God knew beforehand that they would choose to sin?????????Where is free will in that?????

    Genesis 3:22
    And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
    ​The words of God, not Satan.....
    It is free will no doubt, because the choice to disobey was made by Eve and Adam. God did not program or influence the choice.



    YOU SAID:
    we have reached the first step of being in the likeness...i.e knowing what is good and evil
    YOU ALSO SAID:
    ofcourse they had to eat the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil or they would have never reached the first step of becoming the image of God.
    I REPLIED:
    The 1st and the last step of the process of creating them in the image and likeness of God was over. In fact, eating of the fruit, was the first step towards Satan(corruption).
    YOU REPLIED:
    Genesis 3:22
    And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
    ​The words of God, not Satan....
    These are obviously words of God, expressing that Adam and Eve had gained the knowledge of good and evil. As a result, they knew that they had committed a grave sin. They were filled with guilt.

    I therefore repeat, that eating of the fruit was the first step towards Satan/ corruption- the fall of Adam.
    God was against this "first step." How could this "first step" take Adam closer to the image of God? Illogical!!!
    If you wish to teach, I would urge you to be logical.
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    Default Re: Discussing the Garden of eden event

    maybe our brother learned every hebrew characters literally
    and we hope
    now is the proper time to think about
    the hebrew characters spiritually

    our opinions and guessing only ( we hope it works )
    please forgived us on our ignorance.

    thank you very much

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    Default Re: Discussing the Garden of eden event

    Quote Originally Posted by Blain View Post
    So everyone knows the story of man kinds fall because of a women! Jk please don't take offense lol
    You know everyone says if eve hadn't eaten that forbidden fruit bla bla bla, but tbh if she didn't I think someone else would have. I mean the temptation of secret knowledge at you finger tips and say that adam and eve made our human race vast like it is today are telling me not one person would dare touch it?

    But what about the garden itself? God made mankind pure and innocent like a child having no sin he put in the garden the tree of life and the tree of good and evil not to mention he allowed satan the serpent to be in that garden with his creation full knowing how satan was and how he worked not to mention God is all knowing he knows what happens before it happens right? Do you know what I think? I think that it was a test of some sort, why would God make a paradise a literal heaven on earth and put that tree there while also allowing satan in the garden?
    The reason that God put that tree in the garden that they could not touch is because God gave them a choice,to do their own thing,or follow God,because then it is true love.Adam and Eve were created with a relationship with God,which when they ate off that tree it shows that they had a choice,for if they did not have a choice,they could not of eaten off that tree.

    But although they had a choice,I do not believe it would of entered their mind to rebel against God,and eat of that tree,unless an outside source tempted them,so God allowed Satan to tempt Eve,and then she tempted Adam,for to truly have a relationship with God you have to choose to follow Him,and do His will,or else it is robotic love,and no better than a computer that says,I love you.Which would mean that humans would have greater love for choosing to love their spouse,than God with His saints,if it was robotic love,and we know God is the greatest love,so it has to be a choice.

  6. #86
    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discussing the Garden of eden event

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanashankar View Post
    So u mean to say that God failed in creating a perfect Adam and Eve who could have NOT sinned. There was something wrong in the creation of God, that he couldnt create Adam and Eve in such a way that even they have free will, they couldnt have been powerful not to sin??????????????????

    Jesus was in the flesh, yet he did not sin, why not Adam???So there is something wrong in the creation of the first man???????I don't believe it.
    No I said exactly what I meant to say......your additions and or surmising is found no where in what I said.......now...re-read my statement and understand that I said exactly what I meant to say......
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    Senior Member MarcR's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discussing the Garden of eden event

    Quote Originally Posted by Magenta View Post
    Scripture makes it clear that that sin and death entered the world through Adam.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blain View Post
    Hmm? well I haven;t read genesis in a long time but does that mean that eve had no sin when she took that bite?
    If Eve had eaten the forbidden fruit and Adam had not; Eve would have been separated from God, and God would have given Adam another help-meet. In any case this speculation is fruitless because God knew what Adam and Eve would do before He created them and had a plan for their redemption.
    MarcR



    Blessings on you! (Nu 6:24-26)


    Col 3:16-17
    16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
    17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

    KJV

  8. #88
    Senior Member MarcR's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discussing the Garden of eden event

    Quote Originally Posted by Magenta View Post
    Scripture makes it clear that that sin and death entered the world through Adam.
    Quote Originally Posted by onlinebuddy View Post
    The Bible does not say that the earth BECAME void. It says that the newly created earth WAS (formless and) void.

    Also, are you saying that you and I are fallen angels that God is giving a second chance? Good attempt to explain things; but I'd rather stick to what my Bible says.

    For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; [2 Peter 2:4]

    Gen 1:2
    2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
    KJV


    was = הָיְתָ֥ה = either was, or, more often, became. This is the qal perfect feminine singular of יְהוָ֥ה , which is the verb to be. (I AM)

    If Genesis 1 speaks of original creation, was is indeed correct; however, if, as I believe, Genesis 1 speaks of re-creation after a cataclysmic upheaval; then became is more appropriate. The Hebrew text allows either reading consistently throughout the chapter.
    MarcR



    Blessings on you! (Nu 6:24-26)


    Col 3:16-17
    16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
    17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

    KJV

  9. #89
    Senior Member MarcR's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discussing the Garden of eden event

    Quote Originally Posted by Magenta View Post
    Scripture makes it clear that that sin and death entered the world through Adam.
    Quote Originally Posted by GandalfTheWhite View Post
    Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

    The problem was that Eve already changed the word of God. God never said if you touch the fruit you will die but He said if you eat the fruit you will die.
    Quite true; but it goes much further:

    Gen 2:17
    17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
    KJV


    God said in the qal (active) voice: thou shalt surely die. מ֥וֹת תָּמֽוּת

    Gen 3:3
    3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
    KJV

    Eve said in the niphal imperfect (passive) voice lest ye [die] be killed. פֶּן־ תְּמֻתֽוּן

    I have looked at 17 major translations and all of them translate this in the qal (active voice); however in order to be qal' it is necessary that as in מ֥וֹת, aוֹ vahv must follow the מ֥ mem. Inתְּמֻתֽוּן , the ו vahv is absent; and the מֻ mem is pointed with a ֻ qubuts; thus signaling the niphal (passive) voice!
    MarcR



    Blessings on you! (Nu 6:24-26)


    Col 3:16-17
    16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
    17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

    KJV

  10. #90
    Senior Member MarcR's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discussing the Garden of eden event

    Quote Originally Posted by Magenta View Post
    Scripture makes it clear that that sin and death entered the world through Adam.
    Quote Originally Posted by GandalfTheWhite View Post
    I disagree with this statement as Adam named all of the animals and his wife etc. He was not without knowledge... He had Godley authority and God made him perfect without knowledge of sin.
    You are again correct!

    In Gen 2:17
    17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. KJV, good and evil ט֣וֹב וָרָ֔ע is an idiom for all things. Only God has absolute omniscience; but the forbidden fruit offered an unfolding omniscience; which, without God's guidance and direction gave mankind the potential to self destruct.
    GandalfTheWhite likes this.
    MarcR



    Blessings on you! (Nu 6:24-26)


    Col 3:16-17
    16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
    17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

    KJV

  11. #91
    carolb
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    Default Re: Discussing the Garden of eden event

    Quote Originally Posted by posthuman View Post
    this pre-existence idea, universal fatherhood, and the 1/3 of humanity following Satan is mormon, but mormons would say the choice was made before being 'born of woman' in the first place, then toss in some sort of samsara-like levels of earth & heaven within which to work out that choice on the way to self-deification, and wouldn't say people were 'created' on any day, believing conscious life to be eternal (self-contradictory with the whole 'fatherhood' idea). at least not if they knew their doctrine and were being careful with what they say. but then they are happy to re-define words on the fly anyway..

    this is an odd mix for sure.

    carolb where are you being taught this?
    what's your affiliation, if you have one?
    i don't think this comes straight outta the scripture itself.
    "And the Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat." (Genesis 3:13)
    It wasn't fruit that she ate and God created Adam & Eve on the 8th day, after he rested on the 7th. He did this separately after he created male & female on the sixth. Why? To bring forth the seedline of Christ.


    Beguiled.

    What does that word mean?


    For a long time I thought it only meant "tricked" or " deceived" and it bothered me to think that Eve, a woman who was suppose to be one of God's most valiant daughters, could be so easily duped.


    I mean Moses wasn't deceived or tricked by Satan when he tried to appear to him as a being of light (Moses 1:12-16) Why then would Eve have been any less skeptical of Satan's claims?


    According to Hebrew scholar Dr. Nehama Aschenasythe word translated as " beguiled" does not mean what we think it does. As I explained in my essay " We Are Each Eve":
    "Dr. Nehama Aschenasy, a Hebrew scholar, said that in Hebrew the word which is translated as beguiled in the Bible does not mean "tricked" or " deceived" as we commonly think. Rather, the Hebrew word is a rare verb that indicates an intense multilevel experience evoking great emotional, psychological, and/or spiritual trauma. As Aschenasy explained, it is likely that Eve's intense, multilevel experience, this " beguiling" by the serpent was the catalyst that caused Eve to ponder and evaluate what her role in tbe Garden really was." (The Gift of Giving Life: Re-discovering the Divine Nature of Pregnancy and Birth, pgs. 2-3)
    It completely changes our perspective on Eve if, instead of thinking of her being tricked into eating the fruit, we see her undergo an intense multilevel experience before choosing to partake. It is important to remember that Satan had used the symbol of the serpent, a symbol of Christ, to try to deceive her into thinking he had power and authority. He also didn't lie to her outright, he just told her half-truths.
    "And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die (Lie) For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. (Truth)" (Genesis 3:4-5)
    Yet even his disguise and half disguised lies were not enough to deceive Eve into blindly eating the fruit. What Satan's efforts did do however was to beguile her. He made her question, made her doubt, and sent her on a soul searching journey.


    What was her purpose in the garden?


    How were she and Adam to fulfill God's command to multiply and replenish the earth?


    What was God's plan for her?

    Was there any other way it could be accomplished?


    These may have been questions she struggled with in the garden and one can only imagine that her choices must have weighed heavily on her heart.


    Eventually Eve chose to eat of the fruit, but not because she was deceived.
    "And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat." (Genesis 3:6)
    Eve ate because she saw.


    In her own words she explained,
    "Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient." (Moses 5:11)
    Furthermore, Adam also ate because he saw and understood. He said:
    "Blessed be the name of God, for because of my transgression my eyes are opened, and in this life I shall have joy and again in the flesh I shall see God." (Moses 5:10)
    And when the Lord called them forward there wasn't any blaming, just an account of what had happened.
    "And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat. And the Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat." (Genesis 3:12-13)
    Both Adam and Eve understood what they had done and they were both willing to accept the consequences in order to move God's great plan of happiness forward. Furthermore, God didn't curse them, that was reserved solely for Satan. What He did do was explain to them what the consequences of their choices were and give them direction for navigating the world He was sending them into.

    I think that too often Eve gets vilified for eating the fruit, or is tagged as being easily duped, when really the truth is that what she did was an act of sheer bravery and faith. Her choice was a conscious, faith filled leap into the unknown, and her struggle in the Garden should not be overlooked.

    Her choice made all other choices possible.

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    Default Re: Discussing the Garden of eden event

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanashankar View Post
    Everything that God made was "very good" for the PURPOSE He created them. These include poisonous mushrooms, poisonous snakes, etc.....

    You are saying the creation is/was good. But the scripture says...
    And your comprehension skills need a lot of work. Before the Fall, before mankind fell into sin, there was no sin, death or suffering. Creation was perfect (Genesis Chapters 1 and 2). Then, as a result of mankind's rebellion against God in the garden of Eden, Creation was corrupted with sin and its consequences (Genesis 3). Hence, poisonous anything didn't exist before the Fall. The snakes and mushrooms may have, but they weren't poisonous. Now, we live in a fallen world. But prior to Adam and Eve eating of the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, Creation was a perfect paradise. I'm not sure how I can put it more simply for you.

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    Default Re: Discussing the Garden of eden event

    Quote Originally Posted by carolb View Post
    "And the Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat." (Genesis 3:13)
    It wasn't fruit that she ate and God created Adam & Eve on the 8th day, after he rested on the 7th. He did this separately after he created male & female on the sixth. Why? To bring forth the seedline of Christ.


    Beguiled.

    What does that word mean?


    For a long time I thought it only meant "tricked" or " deceived" and it bothered me to think that Eve, a woman who was suppose to be one of God's most valiant daughters, could be so easily duped.


    I mean Moses wasn't deceived or tricked by Satan when he tried to appear to him as a being of light (Moses 1:12-16) Why then would Eve have been any less skeptical of Satan's claims?
    These are Mormon teachings. There's nothing biblically true about them and they're most certainly not Christian. You do realise Joseph Smith was one of the biggest conmen ever, don't you? Now we see your true colours. There's no point continuing the conversation with you.

  14. #94
    Senior Member posthuman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discussing the Garden of eden event

    carol,

    can you support this doctrine without the BOM?

    because 99.9999% of us here agree through the Spirit that it's the work of a false prophet, taught by a demon. when the Spirit burns in our bosom, that's what it tells us, and that, clearly.
    how can we reject the Spirit, then? we must remain faithful to the gospel & spirit we received.

    any new revelation must not contradict old revelation, or it makes God a liar. Christ was preached from the old testament by the apostles; they did not abrogate the prophets.
    if what you say is true, it should also be seen without these other books.



    don't take it personally, please - we're talking about scripture & doctrine here, not about each other. no one here will accept what you want to teach if it's not found in the Bible apart from the BOM, so i hope you will look into whether that is possible for these doctrines.

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    Senior Member Sanashankar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discussing the Garden of eden event

    Quote Originally Posted by onlinebuddy View Post
    Generally a sentence makes sense when the same tense is used throughout, although there can be exceptions.
    You are saying that the Hebrew version uses present indefinite or present progressive tense (creating) once, and simple present tense (creates) twice in the same sentence. Does not make sense at all.

    According to you, God CREATED (past perfect tense) everything else. This means that the work was completed.
    ...but he is still CREATING(present progressive tense) man in his image- work not completed
    and
    in God's image he creates (simple present tense) him, male and female he creates (simple present tense) them- work completed. Does not make sense!!!

    If you check out the below-mentioned website, it says "created" and is in agreement with Strong's Hebrew Dictionary.
    Genesis 1 Interlinear Bible

    Do you have a physical Heb interlinear Bible? Or are you studying from an online source?
    Kindly show me via web link or snapshot that the hebrew word is 'CREATING' and not 'created'

    If you want to teach someone the Bible, especially when you are referring to the Hebrew text, and are rejecting other translations (such as the English translations), you MUST know Hebrew.
    You are making a very very very tall claim here, without even knowing Hebrew.
    When you refer to a Hebrew interlinear Bible, without knowing Hebrew, you are actually depending on a Hebrew dictionary written by someone, and not your own understanding.
    I'm not at all convinced!
    Hebrew Interlinear—Read from right to left:

    ALeim btzim btzimu eadm qth aleim Ulbra

    Elohim in-image-of in-image-of-him the-human - Elohim and-he-is-creating

    Athm bra unqbe zkr athu bra

    Them he-creates and-female male him he-creates



    Reading from right to left we have:

    “And He is creating, Elohim, the human in the image of Him, in the image of Elohim He creates him, male and female He creates them”
    And now from the Concordant Version:

    “And creating is the Alueim [God] humanity in His Image. In the Image of the Alueim [God] He creates it. Male and female He creates them”



    Clearly the point is made that creating mankind in the Image of God is in the indefinite tense [past/present/future] and not in the pasted tense as in the King James and most bibles. This creation continues.
    "Therefore, we should be doing right, not just to avoid wrath or to receive a reward, but rather because doing good to others IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO." -L. Ray Smith

    (learning from L.Ray.Smith's www.bibletruths.com Ernest.L.Martin'swww.askelm.com)

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    Senior Member FreeNChrist's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discussing the Garden of eden event

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanashankar View Post
    Hebrew Interlinear—Read from right to left:

    ALeim btzim btzimu eadm qth aleim Ulbra

    Elohim in-image-of in-image-of-him the-human - Elohim and-he-is-creating

    Athm bra unqbe zkr athu bra

    Them he-creates and-female male him he-creates



    Reading from right to left we have:

    “And He is creating, Elohim, the human in the image of Him, in the image of Elohim He creates him, male and female He creates them”
    And now from the Concordant Version:

    “And creating is the Alueim [God] humanity in His Image. In the Image of the Alueim [God] He creates it. Male and female He creates them”



    Clearly the point is made that creating mankind in the Image of God is in the indefinite tense [past/present/future] and not in the pasted tense as in the King James and most bibles. This creation continues.

    The teaching you have fallen prey to, Armstrongism, is heretical.
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    Senior Member onlinebuddy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discussing the Garden of eden event

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanashankar View Post
    Hebrew Interlinear—Read from right to left:

    ALeim btzim btzimu eadm qth aleim Ulbra

    Elohim in-image-of in-image-of-him the-human - Elohim and-he-is-creating

    Athm bra unqbe zkr athu bra

    Them he-creates and-female male him he-creates



    Reading from right to left we have:

    “And He is creating, Elohim, the human in the image of Him, in the image of Elohim He creates him, male and female He creates them”
    And now from the Concordant Version:

    “And creating is the Alueim [God] humanity in His Image. In the Image of the Alueim [God] He creates it. Male and female He creates them”



    Clearly the point is made that creating mankind in the Image of God is in the indefinite tense [past/present/future] and not in the pasted tense as in the King James and most bibles. This creation continues.
    Your belief: God is in the PROCESS OF CREATING man in His image. (indefinite tense)
    Your claim: All English Bibles are incorrect since they say "CREATED" (past perfect tense). The Hebrew interlinear Bible that you are referring to is correct.

    Can you back your belief up with some other bible verses?
    Please note that the verses you quoted earlier(Ro 8:29 & 1Jn 3:2) were out of context. I have elaborated on this in my earlier post.

    Also, what bible are you using? A physical printed copy, or an online one?

    (Sorry OP...this discussion is going in some other direction....)

  18. #98
    Senior Member eternally-gratefull's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discussing the Garden of eden event

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanashankar View Post
    So u mean to say that God failed in creating a perfect Adam and Eve who could have NOT sinned. There was something wrong in the creation of God, that he couldnt create Adam and Eve in such a way that even they have free will, they couldnt have been powerful not to sin??????????????????

    Jesus was in the flesh, yet he did not sin, why not Adam???So there is something wrong in the creation of the first man???????I don't believe it.

    Yes God could have created Adam in a way he could never sin, He could have made adam a robot. created to do whatever god wanted, with no choice. Who could never feel, never love, never have emotion, never receive only give.

    Of course, that would have made satans lie a reality, not a lie. Made all of us (if we could freely think) angry because God gave us no choice, and most likely caused many more wars in the spiritual rhelm as more people left A God who is a puppetmaster, and not a God of love as he claims.

    Adam and Jesus had the same ability, Adam COULD have remained perfect, he did not. Jesus could have sinned he did not.

    end of story.
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    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Senior Member eternally-gratefull's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discussing the Garden of eden event

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanashankar View Post
    They were given a "choice", but God knew beforehand that they would choose to sin?????????Where is free will in that?????
    Now your losing it.

    It would be free will if Adam could never sin?
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    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

  20. #100
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    Default Re: Discussing the Garden of eden event

    A theological point

    Adam and eve were not the same after gaining knowledge of good and evil.
    They became like God.

    Many miss this point. There is no going back to innocence, the relationship is changed forever.
    The story only makes sense because God to create independent children had to allow man to choose to walk this road even though it led to death.

    From Gods perspective, the end goal was a people who walked like Him, truly free yet truly holy.
    Was it wrong to give us this chance?

    This is why I do not accept it was test, or some kind of blip, it was the road to life and was inevitable, just like Judas was inevitable. You cannot have freedom and love without bondage and death, because some will choose one and not the other, but does this mean you will deny both and play safe?

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