Spiritual Fornication - A Warning!

[Allen5566]

This thread is about spiritual fornication – not the law! I mentioned the law in reply to pieman’s request for more of an explanation and it was only to explain the disciples’ culture, how they lived.

Now there are a few individuals who apparently want to destroy and derail this thread like they have done to so many others that start out to try to edify and be a meaningful discussion. That is their prerogative and I can’t really stop them. I have been told that people are beginning to see what they do and how they perjure themselves by claiming to be a Christian but are devoid of the fruit of the Spirit and how they claim that others attack them when it is as plain as the nose on your face that they are the attackers. People aren’t as stupid as they would like to think they are. Even though they have been successful at running off serious people who come here to take part in Christian fellowship but I wouldn’t be too proud of that success if I were them.

So, I will not argue and allow what God has given me to share with others who have ears to hear to be derailed by anything the adversary throws in my way. Now you know that when I don’t reply to certain posts it is because I see no value in pursuing that conversation. Legitimate questions and conversation is a good thing. As God said in Hebrews 13:16, “But don't forget doing good and sharing with others, for with such sacrifices God is well pleased.”

Galatians 5:22-23:

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

Now, if one feels that other Christians are not bearing the fruit of the Spirit, then wouldn't it be wise to try to be in relationship with them (if that's not already occurring) so as to promote accountability and mutual encouragement of brothers (and sisters) in faith?? Where does the condemnation of sinners* from righteous (and inevitably hypocritical) human tongues get us? Nothing, except more and more people alienated from the Good News of Jesus Christ. For me, that is sad, and unacceptable.

Honestly, I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at, so my apologies if I have mischaracterized your views on this issue.

*Judging sinners is never a good idea when one's own house is not in order. Which would be all of us. We're all sinners. Only God can judge us.

 

[just-us-2]

Galatians 5:22-23:


Now, if one feels that other Christians are not bearing the fruit of the Spirit, then wouldn't it be wise to try to be in relationship with them (if that's not already occurring) so as to promote accountability and mutual encouragement of brothers (and sisters) in faith?? Where does the condemnation of sinners* from righteous (and inevitably hypocritical) human tongues get us? Nothing, except more and more people alienated from the Good News of Jesus Christ. For me, that is sad, and unacceptable.

Honestly, I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at, so my apologies if I have mischaracterized your views on this issue.

*Judging sinners is never a good idea when one's own house is not in order. Which would be all of us. We're all sinners. Only God can judge us.

I haven't seen you on this forum before so I don't expect you to know what is going on. If you go back and look at posts 8, 10, 12, and 13 for example, you will see what happens. You can also click on a person's name beside their post and the little box that pops up gives you the option of seeing the posts that individual has made on all threads in the forum. From that you will be able to see why I refuse to waste time contending with certain people.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I haven't seen you on this forum before so I don't expect you to know what is going on. If you go back and look at posts 8, 10, 12, and 13 for example, you will see what happens. You can also click on a person's name beside their post and the little box that pops up gives you the option of seeing the posts that individual has made on all threads in the forum. From that you will be able to see why I refuse to waste time contending with certain people.

You amaze me, Your pride is so deep. You did not even read what the person was trying to say. All you wanted to do was attack someone.

If your pride will not allow you to see what someone is saying, so you can not properly respond to the words he said, then why do you bother posting at all?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Galatians 5:22-23:


Now, if one feels that other Christians are not bearing the fruit of the Spirit, then wouldn't it be wise to try to be in relationship with them (if that's not already occurring) so as to promote accountability and mutual encouragement of brothers (and sisters) in faith?? Where does the condemnation of sinners* from righteous (and inevitably hypocritical) human tongues get us? Nothing, except more and more people alienated from the Good News of Jesus Christ. For me, that is sad, and unacceptable.

Honestly, I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at, so my apologies if I have mischaracterized your views on this issue.

*Judging sinners is never a good idea when one's own house is not in order. Which would be all of us. We're all sinners. Only God can judge us.

Sadly I feel a person who is stuck in their religion and a performance based church must judge sinners, It is the only way they can live with their own sin, and excuse it. (Actually I know it, I lived it, and grew up in it, and saw many people leave God because of the hypocrisy and judgment)

They have not studied Jesus to see how he got people to change their lives, He loved them, Served them, Accepted them in spite of their sin.

They wanted to serve, and love and change their lived based on the LOVE and FORGIVENESS God gave them. Not because some law said thou shalt not, or thou shalt. Which never made anyone want to change, or love or forgive.

 

[MarcR]

We all know that when a person is converted to Christianity he/she doesn’t instantly become perfect, but there will be something noticeable to others soon after, because if the ‘amazing grace’ didn’t change him/her, it wasn’t the truly amazing grace of God. God’s grace is a changing grace – it changes us!

As disciples of Jesus Christ we must eventually face those ‘gray areas’ and take a stand. Nowadays we often hear statements like, “He’s a Christian, but he’s really messed up,” or “she has a good heart but she lives with her boyfriend,” or “he/she believes in God but is gay.” It has gotten so bad that it isn’t even mentioned many times. It is just accepted. Those are gray areas not dealt with and made right, and they cause what is called “Christianity” to be no more than a mere shadow or ghost of what it was in those early days and what it is supposed to be still.

Looking back at the disciples who walked around the countryside with Jesus we see men who were accustomed to the law given by God to mankind. Eventually, He instructed Moses to write it all down and we can read today how when Yahweh crafted His law for the good of the people, He interwove into it elements that would remind them all day long how much He loved them, because He gave instruction for everything a person did in a day, a growing season for crops, and a year. As a person disposed of some sort of waste, for instance, he would be reminded how God loved them and gave them instruction for their good health. It is flagrantly untrue that the law is a bunch of don’ts and regulations and outdated rules. So they were well acquainted with the reality of God and were bold enough to stand up to the persecution they knew they would encounter. Today, ‘persecution’ is considered to be a sideways look or an eyebrow raised in question at stating an unpopular truth of God. Rather than be thought of as ‘weird’ or ’fanatical’ it is just easier to go with the flow.

Today, I could go online and order an ordination certificate saying I am an ordained minister and go about finding a church to hire me as pastor – it happens often. If it didn’t, there would be no market for the phony ordination certificates. Sadly, even those who are “ordained” by more conventional means teach much less than the whole truth of God’s Word, and this leads to teaching which is compromised with the world’s standards. That compromise is spiritual fornication. The pure bride is tainted by false teaching.

IMO, the OT, especially the Torah, was given to persuade people that we are unable to please God by our own efforts; and that we do, in fact, need a Savior.

Any attempt to use Torah as a basis to encourage people to attempt to please God by their own efforts, IMO, misses the point.

 

[Karraster]

2 Corinthians 11:2-3
2 For I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy; for I betrothed you to one husband, so that to Christ I might present you as a pure virgin.
3 But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ.

James 4:4
4 You adulteresses, do you not know that friendship with the world is hostility toward God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.

This is obviously the truth. It is in God’s Word for us to know. Everyone likes to cling to the fact that Jesus Christ died for the sins of all mankind – and rightly so. But what has been at best, minimized, and more often and worse yet, forgotten and neglected entirely, is that His death was to purchase mankind as a pure virgin for the Bride of Christ. Any departure from what God instructs is spiritual fornication.

It used to be much easier to tell a real Christian from a non-Christian (or a fake, or one who was deceived) – right was right and wrong was wrong. Now we are bombarded with “gray areas” that we must be “tolerant” of and “politically correct” so we don’t offend anyone…yes, even in churches. Now, people are “Jesus fans” which is really fans of Jesus (He’s such a nice guy!) without actually being His disciple, one who is separate from the world.

Now, before anyone decides it would be fun to jump in and start the usual arguments, let me remind you that JESUS HIMSELF called it the ‘depths of Satan’ (Revelation 2:24) Note that is in the book of Revelation, not some Old Testament book you can say with your watered down easy-to-live-with gospel no longer applies.

Go back to square one and think a minute – God sent His Son to DIE so that we could be reconciled to Him, a pure virgin for a bride – DIE is a serious word and if you have never experienced your own child dying, I’m happy for you…but God did this for us...I guarantee you He is not going to look at those who minimize (or worse) the importance of His Son’s life and say, 'spiritual fornication is okay because you meant well by being so kind to that person and not saying adultery – or fornication, or drunkenness, or drug use, or placing sports above Him in daily thoughts, or gluttony, or absorbing the subtle sinfulness of modern music into our thought processes and judgmental decisions of what is good and right…and you can come in and be His Bride.' This is something God imparted to me as I grieved over my son’s death when he was 30 years old – the same age Jesus was when He ministers on earth.

Just-us two, thank you for sharing the grief of loosing your son in such a positive way. I'm sure the pain involved cannot be conveyed with words..to lose a child..my mind won't let me concieve of it. All the more reason to thank you for that perspective which I don't have.

Your OP is brutally honest and true. Do we want to have our hearts changed, turn from our sins and pattern our lives after Jesus? Or are we empty vessels, living only for ourselves as does the worldly?.. the OP begs the question.

Anyone who lumps God's commandments, tradition, and religion together, as being all the same thing, they are not listening to what Jesus said. For with every recorded miracle He performed, He broke with Pharisee law/mans traditions/ religion and that's one reason the people loved Him. He was showing them a better way, freedom from bondage to sin, and freedom from man made religion.

blessings to you sister I pray

 

[just-us-2]

You amaze me, Your pride is so deep. You did not even read what the person was trying to say. All you wanted to do was attack someone.

If your pride will not allow you to see what someone is saying, so you can not properly respond to the words he said, then why do you bother posting at all?

If you don't like it why do you keep reading what I post?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

When we get sick physically, most people go to a doctor and the rest of us use the herbs God gave us to treat our ailments. Either way, some sort of medicine or treatment is used to restore health and I see the law as similar to that medicine or treatment. As medicine won’t do any good if one doesn’t take it, not properly using what God gave us as spiritual medicine – His Law - does no good either. This is why true revival is necessary for the church and how it is supposed to work.[/I][/SIZE]

This is a big problem viewing the law of Moses as medicine. The law kills. It has no power to heal.

God, who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter (law) but of the Spirit; for the letter (law) kills, but the Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6​

 

[just-me]

IMO, the OT, especially the Torah, was given to persuade people that we are unable to please God by our own efforts; and that we do, in fact, need a Savior.

Any attempt to use Torah as a basis to encourage people to attempt to please God by their own efforts, IMO, misses the point.

You're right about convicting and proving by the law that the works of the same by our own efforts are vain. ( I think that's what you are referring to) There is something in the Torah however, that prophecy says will be celebrated annually during the reign of Christ after He comes as a Lion, and when the government will be upon His shoulders in His kingdom. From what I read, it has nothing to do with persuading "people that we are unable to please God by our own efforts." IMO

Nevertheless, I believe you are right about the "Iron Rod" that will be exacted during that time. "Bam!" Stop your own acts of self-righteousness and follow My instructions.

 

[LieDetector]

God sent His Son to DIE so that we could be reconciled to Him, a pure virgin for a bride – DIE is a serious word and if you have never experienced your own child dying, I’m happy for you…but God did this for us...I guarantee you He is not going to look at those who minimize (or worse) the importance of His Son’s life and say, 'spiritual fornication is okay because you meant well by being so kind to that person and not saying adultery – or fornication, or drunkenness, or drug use, or placing sports above Him in daily thoughts, or gluttony, or absorbing the subtle sinfulness of modern music into our thought processes and judgmental decisions of what is good and right…and you can come in and be His Bride.'

This is so very much the truth. I work in an area where Christians come to me with dreams to interpret. Many of the dreams God gives are directional, correctional, and instructional. It is unfortunate, but most Christians only want to hear that a message from God is some great promise or showing them that they're called to "greatness". So they come to me with their dream and ask for an interpretation, and sometimes their dream IS indeed a promise for the future, but 8 times out of 10 the message is directional and correctional (because scripture tells us He is a good Dad to us and He corrects those He loves). Sometimes it's very difficult for me to give the interpretation God shows me because I know the dreamer is not going to like it. Often when a dreamer doesn't like a message from the Lord, they will attack the messenger.
One day I got a good deal ticked off in my spirit after yet another angry outburst from someone who didn't like what God was saying and I exclaimed to the Lord, "YOU'RE JUST TESTING ME TO SEE IF I'LL GIVE A MESSAGE EVEN WHEN IT MAKES PEOPLE HATE ME!" ...... There was a silence and then His reply came, "You may be right!"

It should be no secret to the saints that God is testing us to ensure we are obedient to speak truth -- He is seeking those who will speak it unadulterated. Unadulterated truth which comes from Him doesn't always sound lovely, but it is spoken to keep us on the right path. Everything He does, even when it comes to correction/direction and even when He comes with judgement, it is done to turn us back to Him.

Be well blessed.

 

[ukok102nak]

2 Corinthians 11:2-3
2 For I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy; for I betrothed you to one husband, so that to Christ I might present you as a pure virgin.
3 But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ.

James 4:4
4 You adulteresses, do you not know that friendship with the world is hostility toward God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.

This is obviously the truth. It is in God’s Word for us to know. Everyone likes to cling to the fact that Jesus Christ died for the sins of all mankind – and rightly so. But what has been at best, minimized, and more often and worse yet, forgotten and neglected entirely, is that His death was to purchase mankind as a pure virgin for the Bride of Christ. Any departure from what God instructs is spiritual fornication.

It used to be much easier to tell a real Christian from a non-Christian (or a fake, or one who was deceived) – right was right and wrong was wrong. Now we are bombarded with “gray areas” that we must be “tolerant” of and “politically correct” so we don’t offend anyone…yes, even in churches. Now, people are “Jesus fans” which is really fans of Jesus (He’s such a nice guy!) without actually being His disciple, one who is separate from the world.

Now, before anyone decides it would be fun to jump in and start the usual arguments, let me remind you that JESUS HIMSELF called it the ‘depths of Satan’ (Revelation 2:24) Note that is in the book of Revelation, not some Old Testament book you can say with your watered down easy-to-live-with gospel no longer applies.

Go back to square one and think a minute – God sent His Son to DIE so that we could be reconciled to Him, a pure virgin for a bride – DIE is a serious word and if you have never experienced your own child dying, I’m happy for you…but God did this for us...I guarantee you He is not going to look at those who minimize (or worse) the importance of His Son’s life and say, 'spiritual fornication is okay because you meant well by being so kind to that person and not saying adultery – or fornication, or drunkenness, or drug use, or placing sports above Him in daily thoughts, or gluttony, or absorbing the subtle sinfulness of modern music into our thought processes and judgmental decisions of what is good and right…and you can come in and be His Bride.' This is something God imparted to me as I grieved over my son’s death when he was 30 years old – the same age Jesus was when He ministers on earth.

Nice thread
May the blessing of the holy spirit
Always with you
My breathren :happy: and my fellow :ty:

and also to all our brothers and sisters here
Outside or inside from each beliefs and opinions
please let us continue our good faith and our good work
Spiritually or physically
and we will always be with you
Through the help and mercy of our lord jesus christ
and let the will of our lord god who is good and doesn't lie
Stays in our heart and soul
Forever amen

 

[Tintin]

It's true, it's hard to hear a sermon these days without hearing the about their latest trip to the Mall, the latest R movie, their latest cruise (ministry of course), sheesh, I'm starting to sound like Yet

I don't think I've ever heard any of these in messages at church, except back in the days of The Matrix and The Lord of the Rings.

 

[ukok102nak]

Romans 11:24For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree, how much more shall these who are the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

 

[crossnote]

MORE law is not the answer. LESS law is not the answer. God, in His perfection, gave exactly what man needs - it just needs to be… looking for an accurate word here…um…abided by. That isn’t exactly what I mean though, so if you will allow me to use a parable of sorts to explain my belief—mankind is sick – the unsaved are dreadfully deathly sick – the professing Christians suffer from varying intensities of the malady I’ll call “compromise”, for the sake of keeping this brief. When we get sick physically, most people go to a doctor and the rest of us use the herbs God gave us to treat our ailments. Either way, some sort of medicine or treatment is used to restore health and I see the law as similar to that medicine or treatment. As medicine won’t do any good if one doesn’t take it, not properly using what God gave us as spiritual medicine – His Law - does no good either. This is why true revival is necessary for the church and how it is supposed to work.

What man needs and the regenerate/born again Christian has is new Life and God's Holy Spirit actively working in him both to will and to do of His good pleasure. Sometimes He comforts us, sometimes convicts us, guides us, strengthens us, illuminates our understanding, encourages us and continually points us to faith in Jesus

 

[just-us-2]

This is a big problem viewing the law of Moses as medicine. The law kills. It has no power to heal.

God, who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter (law) but of the Spirit; for the letter (law) kills, but the Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6​

I didn't say the law is medicine - I was making the comparison that used correctly, the law is remedial and said it was "similar" not the same as. You're scraping the bottom of the barrel there in your never-ending search to twist what some of us say to create dissension on the forums.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

This is a big problem viewing the law of Moses as medicine. The law kills. It has no power to heal.

God, who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter (law) but of the Spirit; for the letter (law) kills, but the Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6​

I didn't say the law is medicine - I was making the comparison that used correctly, the law is remedial and said it was "similar" not the same as. You're scraping the bottom of the barrel there in your never-ending search to twist what some of us say to create dissension on the forums.

I didn't say you said "the law is medicine"; I said "the law of Moses as medicine". So your being offended is unwarranted. And you missed my point entirely.

The law is not remedial. It can't bind up and heal. It kills. It's not your friend. It condemns you.

You accuse me of "scraping the bottom of the barrel" to create dissension, but my view is that if you can't even get the most basic thngs right, how can your teachings be right. So that big problem and your and just-me's unending character accusations against those who disagree with you are what are causing so much dissension. Both of you have no capacity to argue the points, so you attack people's character instead.

 

[just-us-2]

I didn't say you said "the law is medicine"; I said "the law of Moses as medicine". So your being offended is unwarranted. And you missed my point entirely.

The law is not remedial. It can't bind up and heal. It kills. It's not your friend. It condemns you.

You accuse me of "scraping the bottom of the barrel" to create dissension, but my view is that if you can't even get the most basic thngs right, how can your teachings be right. So that big problem and your and just-me's unending character accusations against those who disagree with you are what are causing so much dissension. Both of you have no capacity to argue the points, so you attack people's character instead.

First of all, the way you phrased "the law of Moses as medicine" IS saying using the law as a medicine, which of course, is not what I said.

Secondly, we have a severe problem here. Your last paragraph causes me to wonder where you get "So that big problem and your and just-me's unending character accusations against those who disagree with you are what are causing so much dissension. Both of you have no capacity to argue the points, so you attack people's character instead." You really should look back at posts over the last, two months let's say, and see who calls who names and assassinates character...and go look at other threads too, like where I was likened to a "roaring lioness"...and look closely at the name calling - who does that?

Third, you and your comrades are constantly saying we are wrong, along with the routine name calling and character assassination, and the talking about us to others which is called gossip and bearing false witness in the Bible. Oops - it slipped my mind for a minute that to point out Bible truth means nothing to you because you don't believe in it according to your own words.

I don't believe in all of the bible. In fact, I don't believe in the bible at all. I believe in Christ, i.e., the word of GOD. The bible is not the word of GOD; it is a book containing historical records of GOD's dealings with men. Christ is not a book, therefore the bible is not the word of GOD. The word of GOD is living and powerful and perfect; the bible is an imperfect, inanimate object. I believe everything written in the bible, but I do not believe in it. I believe in the one it witnesses about. Believing in the bible is idolatry; no idolater has life abiding in them.
You search the Scriptures, for you think you have eternal life in them; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. John 5:39-40
Stated in a modern context:
You search the bible because you think you have eternal life in it; and this is that which witnesses of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. John 5:39-40

So you err by teaching that the bible is the word of GOD.

So, since that is the case, if as you say, “if you can't even get the most basic thngs right, how can your teachings be right” why should anyone in a CHRISTIAN forum even consider what you say as solid Bible teaching. Your above post from a week or two ago after 20 months of not posting certainly disqualifies you from talking down anybody’s posts.

 

[just-us-2]

IMO, the OT, especially the Torah, was given to persuade people that we are unable to please God by our own efforts; and that we do, in fact, need a Savior.

There is so much more! That is part of it but anyone who sees only that in it is missing so much - very sad.

Any attempt to use Torah as a basis to encourage people to attempt to please God by their own efforts, IMO, misses the point.

This is true.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If you don't like it why do you keep reading what I post?

Because I hope that maybe one day you will change and see Gods truth as a God of LOVE, not a God of laws.

Saul and Nicodemous saw it. We do not give u on anyone, we love them and hope and pray they find salvation. and freedom.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If you don't like it why do you keep reading what I post?

by the way, I must ask again, Why did you not respond to what they guy said? Why is it more important for you to judge me, and not respond in kind to what the person spent time trying to show you he thought?