The Law Debacle Resolved

[JaumeJ]

The Holy Spirit witnesses to what is true. Even Scripture without the Holy Spirit kills.........As for your running to Paul every time you want to argue some imagined point, keep in mind it is Paul who teaches us all........

Did Pau die on the cross for your sins? Also he asks do you belong to Paul or any of the other apostles? We belong to Jesus, and we learn from God, as is written. If you do not know the Word well enough to know this and allI have shaed is written therein, I am very sorry. God bless you, and please keep on topic.

You are arguing with the solution given. Do you honestly believe we are not to follow Christ's Example as taught in the Word?

Are you suggestion we should not do as Jesus teaches, or do as He did? You may continue pitting Paul against Jesus Christ, but when reading Paul, we see Jesus Christ's gospel and His way should be our way.

I prefer some Scripture to prove your point.

I am referring to this Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Chris our Lord! So then, with my mind I myself am a slave to the law of God , but with my flesh, to the law of sin.

AGAIN...If I could "do what Jesus teaches and did" I wouldn't need Jesus. Jesus followed the law perfectly. Jesus fulfilled the law.


Kefa

 

[JaumeJ]

Remember the solution given in the OP......Do what Jesus teaches and did.

 

[Brother_Don]

Jesus taught us about kingdom living. A kingdom has 4 basic elements 1) A king, supreme ruler, or governing agent; 2) territory, with its specific location and definite boundary lines; 3) subjects or citizens within that territorial jurisdiction; 4) and laws and a form of government through which the rule of the ruler is exercised, If we ignore any of these essential elements- if we ignore the message that Jesus Christ brought from the Father-we will have a distorted faith, one that will not bring Salvation. Mathew 4:23, and 9:35, Mark 1:14-15, Luke 4:43, Luke 8:1, Luke 16:16-17, Mathew 24:14

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Wonderful! Yes, we must be born again, and live with Jesus Christ always in our hearts.

More of His teachings and observances on His Example are welcome. God bless you...amen.

ahem

When you are born again, Jesus is always in your heart It is called eternal life, and the seal of the spirit.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Grace, Law? What about it? How do we resolve it.

Here is the solution.

Do what Jesus teaches and did.

I do. I live by trusting and depending upon Him, just as He lived by trusting and depending upon the Father.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Not at all; you are forgetting grace and mercy, completely. We have been taught this and given these gifts because we cannot achieve perfection on our own. God, Himself, has begun a work in each of us that He will complete on His great and glorious day, when we are all united with Him. Until then we are to follow the Example of Jesus Christ as best we are able.

You just showed that all who are born again have eternal security, Because As you said, He will continue a good work until.

I am very sorry if people are teaching others that we can be exactly like Him, and even more sorry if people think this is what children of obedience are teaching. This is far from true.

We are to obey as best we are given to be able, living in grace, and always asking for mercy, for otherwise we would not be asked to confess our sins one to another, and sin is breaking the law. So I ask all, if we must confess our sins after having received the gifts of grace and mercy, how is it the law is not good? How is it it is abolished?

So grace and mercy is obsolite after we are given it? Thats a contradiction.

Grace and mercy is BECAUSE we can;t obey the law to perfection.

So how can the law help us?

Be children of obedience, for disobedience is of the former selves we all had in common at one time

Blessed be the children in Jesus Christ, amen.

Gods children are blessed. Which grace and mercy, They have passed from Judgment to life. And they are the ones who ARE obedient, because they have a living faiht. not a dead faith. (which is why they are saved and given eternal life to begin with)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I do. I live by trusting and depending upon Him, just as He lived by trusting and depending upon the Father.

Jesus said he did not do as he willed, but as his father willed. and by his fathers power. by the HS

We do the same, and are judged for it..

I guess giving honor and glory to God is a bad thing

 

[MarcR]

Grace, Law? What about it? How do we resolve it.

KennethC gave me and all a reminder in Just-Me's wonderful thread on PHARISEES.

Here is the solution.

Do what Jesus teaches and did.

If you feel a need to argue this, you need His help right away.

Thank you Just-Me and KennethC..........

I believe that the wonderful thread on PHARISEES was Ember's.

 

[just-me]

I believe that the wonderful thread on PHARISEES was Ember's.

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ngs-legalistic-pharisees-didnt-recognize.html

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/123495-lets-talk-about-pharisees.html

 

[JaumeJ]

The op is to demonstrate the solution to the continual grace-law discussions in the forum. There is not accusation contained in the post, so no confession is necessary, but I am happy when anyone trusts in Jesus Chrsit.

I do. I live by trusting and depending upon Him, just as He lived by trusting and depending upon the Father.

 

[ember]

I believe that the wonderful thread on PHARISEES was Ember's.

actually, I think he might be talking about THIS thread

that thread, is actually the one that Ben was writing about when he started the conversation on ignoring people

the thread was an attempt to weave together the law and grace...yet again..and Ben refuted it as did others

same ole story

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Remember the solution given in the OP......Do what Jesus teaches and did.

GOD commanded in the law that every male be physically circumcised. Those who weren't were cut off from Israel.

Jesus was physically circumcised.

Paul said physical circumcision was of no value and every one who got physically circumcised for the sake of keeping law were cut off from Christ.

What's the solution? Remember to stay on topic.

 

[just-me]

I believe that the wonderful thread on PHARISEES was Ember's.

The hypocritical Pharisees justified their rejection and distortion of God's law. The righteous Pharisees such as Nicodemus and Paul accepted all of God's word unlike those hypocrites. I think that's the difference in the threads that you and JaumeJ are addressing.

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ngs-legalistic-pharisees-didnt-recognize.html

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/123495-lets-talk-about-pharisees.html

 

[JesusLives]

I am not forgetting anything at all. I know more ab
aout resting in grace than you can possibly imagine.
The OP was "do what Jesus did and taught".

Kefa

Matthew 5:48"Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Now these are Jesus words in part of His sermon on the Mt. Which I believe are Matthew 5 and 6....
This is what Jesus taught....

What you gave example of was Paul's experience in trying to do what Jesus taught. Jesus was able to be perfect as His Father in Heaven because Jesus submitted to God's will at all times..... Now am I saying that we can be perfect? I didn't say that Jesus taught it and if we submitted to God all the time as Jesus did with the Holy Spirit living in our hearts why would we not be able to be like Jesus?

It all works together in tandem..... We must have the law to show us what sin is and why we need a Savior in the first place...We look at the law and see just how miserably we fail knowing we need a Savior, We cry out to Jesus to save us. He forgives us and gives us His grace and mercy. We ask for the Holy Spirit to abide in us and with God's help we start changing becoming the people we are suppose to be and God will continue to work in us until Jesus returns and we get our glorified bodies. Until then we are mortal and die sometimes fail and fall short... but then we will be perfect and imortal as God intended us to be from the beginning before the fall of man.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The op is to demonstrate the solution to the continual grace-law discussions in the forum. There is not accusation contained in the post, so no confession is necessary, but I am happy when anyone trusts in Jesus Chrsit.

so we trust Jesus not the law. and your not happy? (shakes finger)

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

The law commands that every male be physically circumcised. Those who weren't were cut off from Israel.

If any male is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that man will be cut off from his people; he has broken My covenant. Genesis 17:14

And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised. Leviticus 12:3​

Paul said physical circumcision was of no value and every one who got physically circumcised for the sake of keeping law were cut off from Christ.

And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. ... For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love. Galatians 5:3-4, 6​

Who do you obey?

This is a good example of the flesh of the law,(carnally understood) verses the Spirit of the law(spiritually understood).

Keep in mind the natural law was just a shadow of good things to come, but not the very image of those things.

Some people still only see the outward appearance of the true spiritual law being yet carnally minded. That is the "enmity" and the veil of the flesh that must be removed from the mind so one can see the true image of the spiritual law.

In this example you gave above the physical circumcision (motion of the carnal ordinance) was to be a shadow (token/sign) of the true spiritual circumcision of the heart, done by the Spirit of God and not by the hands of men.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Matthew 5:48"Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Now these are Jesus words in part of His sermon on the Mt. Which I believe are Matthew 5 and 6....
This is what Jesus taught....

What you gave example of was Paul's experience in trying to do what Jesus taught. Jesus was able to be perfect as His Father in Heaven because Jesus submitted to God's will at all times..... Now am I saying that we can be perfect? I didn't say that Jesus taught it and if we submitted to God all the time as Jesus did with the Holy Spirit living in our hearts why would we not be able to be like Jesus?

It all works together in tandem..... We must have the law to show us what sin is and why we need a Savior in the first place...We look at the law and see just how miserably we fail knowing we need a Savior, We cry out to Jesus to save us. He forgives us and gives us His grace and mercy. We ask for the Holy Spirit to abide in us and with God's help we start changing becoming the people we are suppose to be and God will continue to work in us until Jesus returns and we get our glorified bodies. Until then we are mortal and die sometimes fail and fall short... but then we will be perfect and imortal as God intended us to be from the beginning before the fall of man.

I must disagree, Jesus said there is a better way.

Law can not show us what all sin is. Nor can it make us righteous (and no I am not saying saved, I mean morally good)

Jesus was not good because he followed some law He was good because he loved perfectly.

Love is the fulfillment of the law. Not following some law, which can never make us righteous (again, I am not saying saved, I mean morally good)

 

[Brother_Don]

Can we stay on topic? Can there be a thread that doesn't turn into a train wreck( debacle )? Usually when someone trust another and depends on them they do what the trusted says. Jesus said if you love Me you will do what I say. He also said we can't serve 2 master. One Master is Obedience, the other is iniquity. Who do we want to serve? Jesus Christ of course, He preached on obedience, and He never even gave the idea, that being obedient is a bad thing. He preached a lot on Kingdom living(obedience). Jesus didn't preach and talk about Himself as much as He did the Kingdom, and everything else The Father told Him to say.

 

[JaumeJ]

W
My reference is to "Three major things the legalistic Pharisees didn't recognize." In my esteem it is a wonderful thread.
Am I in error? Is that thread Ember's thread? If it is I stand corrected young man. Thank you and may God bless you ..

I believe that the wonderful thread on PHARISEES was Ember's.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Can we stay on topic? Can there be a thread that doesn't turn into a train wreck( debacle )? Usually when someone trust another and depends on them they do what the trusted says. Jesus said if you love Me you will do what I say. He also said we can't serve 2 master. One Master is Obedience, the other is iniquity. Who do we want to serve? Jesus Christ of course, He preached on obedience, and He never even gave the idea, that being obedient is a bad thing. He preached a lot on Kingdom living(obedience). Jesus didn't preach and talk about Himself as much as He did the Kingdom, and everything else The Father told Him to say.

The thread topic is "the law debacle resolved"

Who is getting off topic?