Law was to lead us to Christ.

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gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
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#1
Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

The law was to lead us to Christ, question what law?

well all of it really, the sacrificial laws pointed to the true lamb of God.

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.



The priestly laws pointed to Jesus our High priest etc.


Heb 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. Heb 5:6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.



what about the 10 commandments? how do they lead us to Christ?

Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

notice sin was in the word before the law so was death because of sin. the law did not bring sin and death so what did it do?



Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

The 10 commandments showed us sin thus our need for the law of sacrifice and law of the priesthood was needed because of sin. The 10 served to alert us to our need. Paul clearly teaches here how they do that.

The law said do not covet and thus Paul knew what lust was and that it was bad.

now take note it was the 10 commandments that pointed out sin or rather showed what sin was by showing what was good. when we saw we did not measure up that showed we were bad and need saving.

this is the part of the law that was added:

Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

notice it was added because of transgression/sin. this we have seen already seen. the 10 showed us we have transgressed. the sacrificial laws showed us that someone would pay for our sins because of our transgression. the High priestly law showed us that someone would help us and strengthen and intercede for us to no longer transgress.

Now here is the law that Paul says showed Him sin:

Exo 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,
Exo 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Exo 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Exo 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
Exo 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.
Exo 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Exo 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.
Exo 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Exo 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

Exo 20:20 And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not.

now most have no problem with 9 of these. but one namely this one:

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

This one they change. Yet it is this law not another This exact law that Paul says was added because of transgression. It is this law that showed us sin. Sin was not different for the Jews than it is for us. God does not change he does not play with the definition of sin.

Mal_3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Heb_13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

So the law that showed sin for Israel is the same law that shows sin for us and thus our need of a savior. And the Sabbath is part of that law like it or not. it is not a spiritualized version of it but as the commandment says.

But some do as The Jews:

Mat 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
Mat 15:4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
Mat 15:5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
Mat 15:6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
Mat 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
Mat 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.


IT does not say take a day of your choosing it says the 7th day. it tells us the reason is that God blessed and made that 7th day holy.

This commandment just like the other 9 show what is good and were given to make us aware of sin.

Legalism is working your own way to heaven without faith.

This would fit any who make their own day that God has not given and made Holy. But by faith we enter into His rest, by faith we keep His day in faith that His words are true and that He is the creator of the heavens and the earth.

It is not faith to change the day or have whatever day you chose, that is works that is legalism.

Thanks God for making the Sabbath for us but this day suits me better. Did not Cain sacrifice to God the best of the fruit of the garden? was it not Cain who was rejected?

See the Sabbath is not simply about our eternal rest or our rest in Christ although those things are in it. but its primary reason is given within the commandment in plain language:

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.


You may acknowledge rest in Christ but do you acknowledge that He who you claim to serve made the 7th day holy and blessed that day? or do you not believe these plain words? that is called a lack of faith/trust.

Do you profess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and that He is the creator of the heavens and earth and then with your actions deny that He made the 7th day Holy? Do you treat that which God made Holy as common?

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.








Mat 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.





Repent therefor and believe the good news.

Lev 10:8 And the LORD spake unto Aaron, saying,
Lev 10:9 Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations:
Lev 10:10 And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean;
Lev 10:11 And that ye may teach the children of Israel all the statutes which the LORD hath spoken unto them by the hand of Moses.

Its not too late but friends will you honor God with your actions by faith in His word?
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#2
Didn't read the post because it's much too long, but I would like to say based just on the title that the law was never meant to bring gentiles to Christ because they were never under the law. The law was meant to bring Israel to Christ. Since then it is the holy spirit that brings people to Christ.
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
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#3
Didn't read the post because it's much too long, but I would like to say based just on the title that the law was never meant to bring gentiles to Christ because they were never under the law. The law was meant to bring Israel to Christ. Since then it is the holy spirit that brings people to Christ.
It indeed was meant to bring Gentiles to Christ. God gave the law to Israel and they were to keep it so that they would be the law to the Gentiles that the Gentiles would see and come to know God and also join themselves to God.

Or are you suggesting that God only wanted to save the Jews then and everyone else had no hope?

The Old testament is full of examples of God reaching out to others outside of Israel. Yes God gave the law to Israel but it was not to simply save them but through them to save the world.
 
K

Kefa54

Guest
#4
Scripture Please

It indeed was meant to bring Gentiles to Christ. God gave the law to Israel and they were to keep it so that they would be the law to the Gentiles that the Gentiles would see and come to know God and also join themselves to God.

Or are you suggesting that God only wanted to save the Jews then and everyone else had no hope?

The Old testament is full of examples of God reaching out to others outside of Israel. Yes God gave the law to Israel but it was not to simply save them but through them to save the world.
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
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#5
here is just one:

Isa 56:1 Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.
Isa 56:2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
Isa 56:3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
Isa 56:4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
Isa 56:5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
Isa 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
Isa 56:7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
Isa 56:8 The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
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#6
Ok a couple more,

Exo 12:48 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. Exo 12:49 One law shall be to him that is home-born, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

The Sabbath commandment also says:

Exo_20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo_23:12 Six days thou shalt do thy work, and on the seventh day thou shalt rest: that thine ox and thine ass may rest, and the son of thy handmaid, and the stranger, may be refreshed.


Lev_18:26 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you:


Lev_19:34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

Num_15:26 And it shall be forgiven all the congregation of the children of Israel, and the stranger that sojourneth among them; seeing all the people were in ignorance.

This is concerning unintentional sin even the stranger was to be forgiven with the people.

notice here that those who sinned presumptuously deliberately would be cut of from his people. notice the stranger is included in this.


Deu_1:16 And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.

and it goes on, gentiles were subjects of salvation also. but there is way to many to actually put them all down.

Num 15:30 But the soul that doeth aught with a high hand, whether he be home-born or a sojourner, the same blasphemeth Jehovah; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Num 15:31 Because he hath despised the word of Jehovah, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.









Exo_22:21 Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.
Exo_23:9 Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger: for ye know the heart of a stranger, seeing ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

Gentiles were to be treated as God had treated them when they were strangers from God.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#7
It indeed was meant to bring Gentiles to Christ. God gave the law to Israel and they were to keep it so that they would be the law to the Gentiles that the Gentiles would see and come to know God and also join themselves to God.

Or are you suggesting that God only wanted to save the Jews then and everyone else had no hope?

The Old testament is full of examples of God reaching out to others outside of Israel. Yes God gave the law to Israel but it was not to simply save them but through them to save the world.
The law of Moses was the law of Israel and Judah. Nowhere else. The law of Christ is the law for the world. It's the law written on every man's heart: faith and love.
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
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#8
The law of Moses was the law of Israel and Judah. Nowhere else. The law of Christ is the law for the world. It's the law written on every man's heart: faith and love.
I hear what your saying but I don't find that in the bible. God gave his law to save all humanity not just Jews this is a grave misunderstanding of the Old Covenant given to Israel. I can not subscribe to that because I have a whole Old Testament that says your wrong. sorry.
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
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#9
Maybe could you clarify what you mean when you say the law was not for the Gentiles? I might be misunderstanding you.

I know the law was not given to the gentiles but to the Jews that much is obvious. But Gentiles came to a knowledge of the law through Israel that was Gods will. and they could join themselves to God and His laws through Israel.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#10
I hear what your saying but I don't find that in the bible. God gave his law to save all humanity not just Jews this is a grave misunderstanding of the Old Covenant given to Israel. I can not subscribe to that because I have a whole Old Testament that says your wrong. sorry.
Where is that written? It's certainly not in the bible. The law couldn't save Israel or Judah, much less gentiles. The gentiles were never under the law of Moses. The Judeans knew this and only required gentile GOD fearers and proselytes of the gate in their synagogues to follow the Noahide laws. That's why James' decree in Acts 15:19-20 listed Noahide laws instead of the law of Moses.

The Jewish Encyclopedia article on Saul of Tarsus states:

According to Acts, Paul began working along the traditional Jewish line of proselytizing in the various synagogues where the proselytes of the gate [e.g., Exodus 20:9] and the Jews met; and only because he failed to win the Jews to his views, encountering strong opposition and persecution from them, did he turn to the Gentile world after he had agreed at a convention with the apostles at Jerusalem to admit the Gentiles into the Church only as proselytes of the gate, that is, after their acceptance of the Noachian laws (Acts 15:1–31)".[14]

The article "New Testament" states:

For great as was the success of Barnabas and Paul in the heathen world, the authorities in Jerusalem insisted upon circumcision as the condition of admission of members into the church, until, on the initiative of Peter, and of James, the head of the Jerusalem church, it was agreed that acceptance of the Noachian Laws — namely, regarding avoidance of idolatry, fornication, and the eating of flesh cut from a living animal — should be demanded of the heathen desirous of entering the Church.[15]​

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Laws_of_Noah
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#12
The previous post looks like propaganda from a Hebrew Roots website.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#13
See the Sabbath is not simply about our eternal rest or our rest in Christ although those things are in it. but its primary reason is given within the commandment in plain language:

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

You may acknowledge rest in Christ but do you acknowledge that He who you claim to serve made the 7th day holy and blessed that day? or do you not believe these plain words? that is called a lack of faith/trust.

Well I'm not under the Law, so..........
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
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#14
Where is that written? It's certainly not in the bible. The law couldn't save Israel or Judah, much less gentiles. The gentiles were never under the law of Moses. The Judeans knew this and only required gentile GOD fearers and proselytes of the gate in their synagogues to follow the Noahide laws. That's why James' decree in Acts 15:19-20 listed Noahide laws instead of the law of Moses.
The Jewish Encyclopedia article on Saul of Tarsus states:

According to Acts, Paul began working along the traditional Jewish line of proselytizing in the various synagogues where the proselytes of the gate [e.g., Exodus 20:9] and the Jews met; and only because he failed to win the Jews to his views, encountering strong opposition and persecution from them, did he turn to the Gentile world after he had agreed at a convention with the apostles at Jerusalem to admit the Gentiles into the Church only as proselytes of the gate, that is, after their acceptance of the Noachian laws (Acts 15:1–31)".[14]

The article "New Testament" states:

For great as was the success of Barnabas and Paul in the heathen world, the authorities in Jerusalem insisted upon circumcision as the condition of admission of members into the church, until, on the initiative of Peter, and of James, the head of the Jerusalem church, it was agreed that acceptance of the Noachian Laws — namely, regarding avoidance of idolatry, fornication, and the eating of flesh cut from a living animal — should be demanded of the heathen desirous of entering the Church.[15]​

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Laws_of_Noah
Communication break down.

Please note my words:

"God gave his law to save all humanity not just Jews"

What I did not say is the law saves humanity. big difference. The law was given to lead us to Christ so that Christ can save us. hens the law was given to save.
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
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#15
Well I'm not under the Law, so..........
Interesting response, I fail to see its relation to what I said. Unless you have a false notion of what being under the law means. But whatever helps you sleep better at night mate. If you don't want what God has given then be my guest make your own holy day. I am gonna stick with Christs works not mans.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#16
Interesting response, I fail to see its relation to what I said. Unless you have a false notion of what being under the law means. But whatever helps you sleep better at night mate. If you don't want what God has given then be my guest make your own holy day. I am gonna stick with Christs works not mans.
It means I get a much better deal than what the Law demanded. I get to rest everyday. Thank you Jesus.
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
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#17
It means I get a much better deal than what the Law demanded. I get to rest everyday. Thank you Jesus.
Do you really think that is what the Sabbath is about only? Do you do no work everyday? no of course you don't cause your smart enough to know that is silly. So I am hoping your smart enough to know then that you can't keep the Sabbath everyday. Please examine what you are saying cause it really makes no sense at all. Resting in Christ every day is not the same as the Sabbath. The Sabbath is a day made Holy by the one you claim to follow. So again if you want to reject what He made holy in order to keep your own day/legalism then that is your choice. but enough of this silly nonsense about I rest every day as if that has anything to do with keeping or not keeping the day He made Holy.
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
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#18
by the way I am not saying this to put you down. I am sure you are actually a smart person, I am just calling out the nonsense hoping you will see it.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
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#19
It indeed was meant to bring Gentiles to Christ. God gave the law to Israel and they were to keep it so that they would be the law to the Gentiles that the Gentiles would see and come to know God and also join themselves to God.

Or are you suggesting that God only wanted to save the Jews then and everyone else had no hope?

The Old testament is full of examples of God reaching out to others outside of Israel. Yes God gave the law to Israel but it was not to simply save them but through them to save the world.
I agree fully with your title premise.

God gave the law to Israel and they were to keep it so that they would be the law to the Gentiles that the Gentiles would see and come to know God and also join themselves to God.

If God had expected Israel to keep the Law, they would have done so; since God is indisputably able to make it happen.

God knew, before the law was given, that Israel would not and could not keep it.
 
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gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
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#20
I agree fully with your title premise.

God gave the law to Israel and they were to keep it so that they would be the law to the Gentiles that the Gentiles would see and come to know God and also join themselves to God.

If God had expected Israel to keep the Law, they would have done so; since God is indisputably able to make it happen.

God knew, before the law was given, that Israel would not and could not keep it.
I am curious then why God said they could keep it. and is God playing games with them telling them to keep it and actually punishing them for not doing so?

Now you are right that God knew they often would not but I can no ascribe to the notion that they could not being that God said they could and expected them to do so. But it was by faith.