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L
My parents have "religion". They go to church on Sunday. If I asked them why they go to church, I have no idea what they'd say, but I guarantee it wouldn't be, "because Jesus was put on the cross and he died for our sins". They'd most likely say something along the lines of not wanting to be heathen or because that's just what you're supposed to do.
When I became saved, and was on fire for Jesus, I would say all types of things to them about Jesus and God, and the moment I did, you could actually see their energy change to defensiveness. They thought that me and my husband were fanatics. It was an offense to them (there's at least one scripture that describes that, but I don't remember what it is).
In a nutshell, religion is what you do on Sundays because you think you have to or because that's the way you were raised (or even because you want to know God), not because you've had a supernatural circumcision of the heart and know Jesus as your Savior and your all in all.
When I became saved, and was on fire for Jesus, I would say all types of things to them about Jesus and God, and the moment I did, you could actually see their energy change to defensiveness. They thought that me and my husband were fanatics. It was an offense to them (there's at least one scripture that describes that, but I don't remember what it is).
In a nutshell, religion is what you do on Sundays because you think you have to or because that's the way you were raised (or even because you want to know God), not because you've had a supernatural circumcision of the heart and know Jesus as your Savior and your all in all.
M
I think religion is not only going to services on Sundays but also what you do between Sundays. When you're not in church, how do you act? How do you treat others? That's your religion. Going to church on Sunday and/or holidays is but a small fraction of religion.
Religion is a bad word because of the negative portrayal of the Pharisees and Sadducees in the Gospels.
Religion is a bad word because of the senseless savagery perpetrated against people in the name of religion.
Religion is a bad word because it's seen as being contrary to having a relationship. "It's not a religion; it's a relationship." *Gag*
Religion is a bad word because of the negative portrayal of the Pharisees and Sadducees in the Gospels.
Religion is a bad word because of the senseless savagery perpetrated against people in the name of religion.
Religion is a bad word because it's seen as being contrary to having a relationship. "It's not a religion; it's a relationship." *Gag*
K
"Religion" is a bad word because people like sound bites. Who has the time to explain that Christianity is not a set of rituals and prohibitions, which, if observed correctly, will get you to heaven? No, it's much easier to spit out a memorable slogan and hope the listener figures it out in her own free time.
N
*Takes deep breath and wonders what on earth she is doing in the "Bible Discussion Forum" for the second time today!!!*
Religion
Christian/Christianity
Church
The Bible
None of these words are, or should be considered "bad". I think they get a "bad" rep though, simply because each one may induce debate/critisism/argument/ and different meanings and/or conutations to each of them do arise. Generally speaking, I opt not to delve too deep into "discussions" about any of this, only because I just feel that I would rather rely on the basics...I love the Lord, and try with everything I have to do what I feel He is leading me to do.
Religion
Christian/Christianity
Church
The Bible
None of these words are, or should be considered "bad". I think they get a "bad" rep though, simply because each one may induce debate/critisism/argument/ and different meanings and/or conutations to each of them do arise. Generally speaking, I opt not to delve too deep into "discussions" about any of this, only because I just feel that I would rather rely on the basics...I love the Lord, and try with everything I have to do what I feel He is leading me to do.
I've tried to let Protestant have their word, but it is so difficult!
It reminds of how people decide that certain male names have a negative meaning - so now people stuck with those names are practically embarrassed to tell people their names - if you know what I mean.
The fact is, it stinks. And it gives people the wrong idea.
I am religious, but I not a mindless drone that mechanically moves through meaningless ritual so I can cross it off my list for the week.
It reminds of how people decide that certain male names have a negative meaning - so now people stuck with those names are practically embarrassed to tell people their names - if you know what I mean.
The fact is, it stinks. And it gives people the wrong idea.
I am religious, but I not a mindless drone that mechanically moves through meaningless ritual so I can cross it off my list for the week.
Depends how you define 'religion'
If you want to call a belief about the supernatural.. then christianity comes under this..
But if you are going to call a system of rituals and behaviours.. Christianity isn't that.
It is purely.. relationship with Jesus Christ. Straight and simple. It isn't A way.. but THE way THE truth
Personally I see religion as any system of rituals and behaviours that tries to get to heaven by these behaviours or rituals. By that definition.. Christianity isn't part of it.. and not a religion.
Christianity is the only belief about the supernatural that has God doing something about our sin. All others.. either the deity or deities don't care about our sin.. or we would have to jump thru a million hoops to make up for our sin and earn our way to nirvana.. heaven.. paradise.. reincarnation or whatever.
If you want to call a belief about the supernatural.. then christianity comes under this..
But if you are going to call a system of rituals and behaviours.. Christianity isn't that.
It is purely.. relationship with Jesus Christ. Straight and simple. It isn't A way.. but THE way THE truth
Personally I see religion as any system of rituals and behaviours that tries to get to heaven by these behaviours or rituals. By that definition.. Christianity isn't part of it.. and not a religion.
Christianity is the only belief about the supernatural that has God doing something about our sin. All others.. either the deity or deities don't care about our sin.. or we would have to jump thru a million hoops to make up for our sin and earn our way to nirvana.. heaven.. paradise.. reincarnation or whatever.
K
Really, though? I understand that's the definition people use in this type of conversation, but when you hear about a new religion that isn't based on works but grace, do you really insist on this sort of classification? For instance, if I come up to your door and tell you I practice the religion Rastashintoshu, in which all things happen by the grace of the One, do you correct me and tell me that I what I practice isn't a religion? What do you call it?
K
The mistake here is to assume that all religions teach that there's a sin you need to do something about. Divine judgment is not self-evident. There are some religions, for instance, in which god draws all beings to himself regardless of what they happen to do, right or wrong. The evil are merely ignorant and, on death, are shown the error of their ways.
Christianity does have some claims to uniqueness, but this isn't one of them.
Christianity does have some claims to uniqueness, but this isn't one of them.
K
Some gnostics, in which I include pre-Christian, prototypical gnostics, believed that it was only by grace that they were given the secret, saving gnosis. Either you were chosen or you weren't - there wasn't a whole lot you could do about it. Other gnostics were ascetics and mortified their own flesh, but others simply relied on grace.
We can also consider certain sects of Hinduism. It's a common idea that, when the world devolves into sin and the Dharma has been forgotten, God will put on a physical form and restore order. In the Bhagavad Gita 18.66 Krishna, who is an avatar of Vishnu, says:
The idea of surrendering to God, rather than relying on your works, is ishvara pranidhana and taught about, for instance, in Patanjali's yoga. There's a story about a yogi who wanted to know how long it would take him to attain liberation. A messenger from God came down and observed him for a while, finally telling him it would take 1,000 lifetimes. The guy considered himself very holy, so he was miffed. He said he'd try even harder. "Oh," the messenger said, "then it'll take 10,000."
We can also talk about Bhakti yoga, in which the sole practice is love for God. Some yogis argued that it would be impossible to work to God by yourself, so all you had to do was express gratefulness to God and remember the love that God had for the practitioner. God, whichever one you worshiped, would let down his golden hook and take up the practitioner when he or she was ready.
But what if you didn't worship? You'd go to hell, right? The texts are full of stories of people accidentally showing reverence to the gods. For instance, maybe they'd spill a bit of milk while walking by a statue. Or, if they'd been reborn as a fly, they'd land on an altar. In any case, the gods would take any excuse to elevate someone. Of course, plenty went to hell, but this doesn't mean the gods didn't care.
I wanted to include nondualists in Hinduism, since Advaita Vedanta is the best example of nondualism in world religion, but nondualism has become more popular in the West without Hindu underpinnings, so this probably wouldn't have been fair. For instance, A Course in Miracles is usually considered to be a nondualist teaching. In any case, in nondualist thought, there have been a lot of avatars of the divine who seek to wake up the ignorant.
Buddhism does not have any deities per se, and they usually don't have any saviors, but Pure Land Buddhists sort of do. Amida (or Amitabha), created a Pure Land, a place to which your average person could go after death and achieve enlightenment very easily. The practice of monasticism was seen as being too difficult, so he swore that he'd make it much easier by using his own merit on behalf of others. In Jodo Shu, all people have to do is chant "Namu Amida Butsu" which roughly means "I show reverence to Amida Buddha," and they're assured of a rebirth there.
The Japanese have two phrases, joriki, which means "self-power," and tariki, which means "other-power." Joriki is what we're talking about here as bad religion: "I'm going to get to liberation on my own." Tariki means reliance on someone else's strength. Christians aren't the only ones who have noticed this dichotomy.
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We can also consider certain sects of Hinduism. It's a common idea that, when the world devolves into sin and the Dharma has been forgotten, God will put on a physical form and restore order. In the Bhagavad Gita 18.66 Krishna, who is an avatar of Vishnu, says:
The idea of surrendering to God, rather than relying on your works, is ishvara pranidhana and taught about, for instance, in Patanjali's yoga. There's a story about a yogi who wanted to know how long it would take him to attain liberation. A messenger from God came down and observed him for a while, finally telling him it would take 1,000 lifetimes. The guy considered himself very holy, so he was miffed. He said he'd try even harder. "Oh," the messenger said, "then it'll take 10,000."
--------------------
We can also talk about Bhakti yoga, in which the sole practice is love for God. Some yogis argued that it would be impossible to work to God by yourself, so all you had to do was express gratefulness to God and remember the love that God had for the practitioner. God, whichever one you worshiped, would let down his golden hook and take up the practitioner when he or she was ready.
But what if you didn't worship? You'd go to hell, right? The texts are full of stories of people accidentally showing reverence to the gods. For instance, maybe they'd spill a bit of milk while walking by a statue. Or, if they'd been reborn as a fly, they'd land on an altar. In any case, the gods would take any excuse to elevate someone. Of course, plenty went to hell, but this doesn't mean the gods didn't care.
--------------------
I wanted to include nondualists in Hinduism, since Advaita Vedanta is the best example of nondualism in world religion, but nondualism has become more popular in the West without Hindu underpinnings, so this probably wouldn't have been fair. For instance, A Course in Miracles is usually considered to be a nondualist teaching. In any case, in nondualist thought, there have been a lot of avatars of the divine who seek to wake up the ignorant.
--------------------
Buddhism does not have any deities per se, and they usually don't have any saviors, but Pure Land Buddhists sort of do. Amida (or Amitabha), created a Pure Land, a place to which your average person could go after death and achieve enlightenment very easily. The practice of monasticism was seen as being too difficult, so he swore that he'd make it much easier by using his own merit on behalf of others. In Jodo Shu, all people have to do is chant "Namu Amida Butsu" which roughly means "I show reverence to Amida Buddha," and they're assured of a rebirth there.
The Japanese have two phrases, joriki, which means "self-power," and tariki, which means "other-power." Joriki is what we're talking about here as bad religion: "I'm going to get to liberation on my own." Tariki means reliance on someone else's strength. Christians aren't the only ones who have noticed this dichotomy.