WHEN DO YOU TELL THEM THE TRUTH?

[Mitspa]

I keep hearing this idea that we just show compassion and tolerance to gays to get them to accept Christ...even put up some gay flags if need be....so at what point do you tell them that tolerance stuff was just to get them saved ...that now they are the temple of God and must live according to the truth of scripture? Don't you think that's a little dishonest to make them think their sin is fine with God until you get them to accept Christ..and then tell them they must turn from that sin? No I think we are supposed to tell them the truth..that they are sinners going to hell and only Jesus can deliver them.

 

[JeniBean]

Well I do tell them the truth and back it up. I kindly explain if "You're born that way" it doesn't mean you must act upon it. I DO NOT argue with them, I state how it is and they usually scream at me and say I am wrong and not showing compassion. Then it leads to the "mickey mouse religion (Mormon)" talk, which then gets them to think more. Then gets them irritated that I cannot see their view and they storm off. It is not my place to judge or my place to save someone who cannot even see they are sinning. I am compassionate about their confusion and explain we cannot just delete portions of the bible.

 

[Mitspa]

Just talk to a guy I ministered to in jail about 10 years ago..where I confronted him with Gods judgment ...which even now I rarely do unless I feel led by the Spirit of God to do so.... He told me that my words weighed on him for a year he spent in prison and was the very factor that drove him to seek the mercy and grace of Jesus Christ...he is now a prison minister himself and a mighty man of God. Folks..the judgment of God against sin is truth that drives us to His Grace. To neglect to tell some this truth to make yourself PC or acceptable to the world in some way, is to walk in a lie.

 

[MarcR]

I keep hearing this idea that we just show compassion and tolerance to gays to get them to accept Christ...even put up some gay flags if need be....so at what point do you tell them that tolerance stuff was just to get them saved ...that now they are the temple of God and must live according to the truth of scripture? Don't you think that's a little dishonest to make them think their sin is fine with God until you get them to accept Christ..and then tell them they must turn from that sin? No I think we are supposed to tell them the truth..that they are sinners going to hell and only Jesus can deliver them.

I agree completely. One thing troubles me. Why do so many of us single out this one sin for so much attention?

We don't have threads like this about lying or theft, or libel, or fraud.

I believe that the homosexual community would be less inclined to target Christians based on their beliefs if we didn't single out their sins over our own for public exhibition.

 

[shotgunner]

I agree completely. One thing troubles me. Why do so many of us single out this one sin for so much attention?

We don't have threads like this about lying or theft, or libel, or fraud.

I believe that the homosexual community would be less inclined to target Christians based on their beliefs if we didn't single out their sins over our own for public exhibition.

Good point. I would bet there are a lot more adulterers in church than there are homosexuals.

 

[KennethC]

The truth is always to be told about sin along with God's grace, the problem is that some people don't like to be pointed how they are acting sinfully.

Also the thing we must remember is that these warnings do not stop just because one has received the Truth of Christ, because like Apostle Paul most of his warnings on sinful behavior was to believers !!!

 

[FreeNChrist]

I agree completely. One thing troubles me. Why do so many of us single out this one sin for so much attention?

We don't have threads like this about lying or theft, or libel, or fraud.

I believe that the homosexual community would be less inclined to target Christians based on their beliefs if we didn't single out their sins over our own for public exhibition.

Unless we are speaking about militants who are trying to force their views upon the church, I agree. We need to guard against judging the sins of others as somehow worse than our own. And lest we forget...

"Jesus reserved his hardest words for the hidden sins of hypocrisy, pride, greed and legalism." - Philip Yancey

 

[crossnote]

I keep hearing this idea that we just show compassion and tolerance to gays to get them to accept Christ...even put up some gay flags if need be....so at what point do you tell them that tolerance stuff was just to get them saved ...that now they are the temple of God and must live according to the truth of scripture? Don't you think that's a little dishonest to make them think their sin is fine with God until you get them to accept Christ..and then tell them they must turn from that sin? No I think we are supposed to tell them the truth..that they are sinners going to hell and only Jesus can deliver them.

kinda like telling a person, oh 'Salvation is a free gift' and once they receive Christ we load them up with a phone book full of dos and don'ts to observe 'or else!'.

 

[crossnote]

The truth is always to be told about sin along with God's grace, the problem is that some people don't like to be pointed how they are acting sinfully.

Also the thing we must remember is that these warnings do not stop just because one has received the Truth of Christ, because like Apostle Paul most of his warnings on sinful behavior was to believers !!!

kinda like telling a person, oh 'Salvation is a free gift' and once they receive Christ we load them up with a phone book full of dos and don'ts to observe 'or else!'.

case in point.

 

[Gr8grace]

The truth is that sin is finished. Christ paid the penalty for ALL sin.

Its a matter of believing that Christ paid for their sin on the cross.

We tell any unbeliever that Christ paid the price for ALL of their sin and it is a matter of them trusting in Him that He DID.

Eternal punishment comes from not believing in Christs sacrifice for their sin. Not from some sin that has already been paid for on the Cross.

We recognize that we are sinners and sin deserves death. Christ jumped in front of us and took the bullet.............we are just asked to believe/trust that He died for us and our sins.

 

[Angela53510]

Repentance is the first word of the gospel. I do agree we need to tell people that we are saved from SIN. But that sin is different in each person, and they need to read the Bible and seek God about what they are doing that is displeasing to God.

Really, there is no salvation apart from repentance. Lots and lots of people witnessed to me and told me about needing Jesus. But the only person to tell me I needed to repent was my future husband.

That is when God made himself known! God called me to himself, and told me to repent. And then to follow him, the rest of my life.

It used to be that people understood what sin meant. They knew it was disobeying the holy and living God. So when people were called to repentance, they already understood the meaning, and were able to instantly reflect on the sin in their lives.

I do worry about the coming generations, who have been taught that they need to follow their hearts, and do what feels good. And not to have guilt or shame in their lives. It is going to take some different ways to explain the truth, that it is not ok to do as they please, and that God has a way that is better than the world's ways.

Or maybe that is a different thread?

 

[BenFTW]

Why don't you leave that to God? If they have believed on Jesus Christ and have been born-again, the Holy Spirit inside them will guide them into all truth. The fruit of the Spirit will take fruition in their lives and they will walk in love. What do you mean, "tell them the truth?" Did you tell them the Gospel? Then you told them the truth. If they confessed with their mouth and believed in their heart Jesus Christ, then all is well. Let the rest take care of itself by God working in them, through the process of sanctification.

KennethC brought up the Apostle Paul and his addressing of sin. Realize that Paul dealt with sin in people lives by showing them that they are not acting as who they now are in Christ. They are not acting in alignment with who Christ has made them to be, new creations. People know what is sinful, their conscience bears witness. They need the solution. Its grace, its renewing our minds to who we are in Christ, Jesus.

The idea of repentance being a turning away from sin is more so a boast in the flesh than anything else. True repentance is a turning to Christ and in Jesus Christ we have victory over sin. There is no fleshy boast of a promise to forsake sin, a promise that is empty and can't be kept.

Rather, we go to Christ as sinners and in Him we are transformed into saints. We don't clean ourselves up before taking a bath, in the same way we don't stop sinning before coming to Christ. It is through Jesus, being born-again, having the Holy Spirit residing in us, the fruit of the Spirit and renewing our minds to who we are in Christ that inevitably transforms our outward actions/conduct. It is not a work of our own, but a process of sanctification done by God and through His revelation given to us.

You tell them that they will change as a result of being born-again. Things that they desired once are purged from them. Ways in which they have acted are no longer in alignment with who God has made them to be. They will understand that their actions do no align with who they now are in Christ. That is, the righteousness of God, in Jesus Christ. God will awaken them to righteousness. When people come to Jesus Christ and are converted a change has taken place, and it will have its fruit. Mind you, fruit takes time to bear, to come to full fruition (ripened) and so you don't need to rush the process and condemn babes in Christ. Let them mature at their own pace and as God sees fit.

 

[maxwel]

I agree completely. One thing troubles me. Why do so many of us single out this one sin for so much attention?

We don't have threads like this about lying or theft, or libel, or fraud.

I believe that the homosexual community would be less inclined to target Christians based on their beliefs if we didn't single out their sins over our own for public exhibition.

Most Christians do NOT single out this sin.

1. Most Christians merely talk about this sin because venting their frustration is a natural reaction to being ATTACKED.
(The gay political lobby actively attacks Christians, and Christian ideas, throughout the media, on a daily basis.)

2. Other Christians only talk about this sin because they're minding their own business, reading the forum, and in come some HOMOSEXUAL POLITICAL ACTIVISTS starting fights.
(This happens around here on a daily basis.)

This isn't a benign issue.
Whether we like it or not, the gay political lobby is EXTREMELY confrontational.

I have NEVER gone on a gay forum, and started fights with people.
But gay activists come on this forum DAILY and start fights with us.

This PARTICULAR SIN has an ENTIRE POLITICAL MOVEMENT behind it.
It isn't benign.
It isn't polite.
It isn't peaceful or quiet.
This sin is supported by an entire political movement, complete with militant activists, attorneys, and law suits.

- > Most sins aren't supported by an entire political movement.

- > Most sins don't come into a Christian forum, on a daily basis, and take the initiative to attack everyone.

 

[crossnote]

I keep hearing this idea that we just show compassion and tolerance to gays to get them to accept Christ...even put up some gay flags if need be....so at what point do you tell them that tolerance stuff was just to get them saved ...that now they are the temple of God and must live according to the truth of scripture? Don't you think that's a little dishonest to make them think their sin is fine with God until you get them to accept Christ..and then tell them they must turn from that sin? No I think we are supposed to tell them the truth..that they are sinners going to hell and only Jesus can deliver them.

The way I break it down is...
If they are sick of their sin and want to be free, i will be compassionate and give them the Gospel.
If they continue to wallow in it and justify their sin, all bets are off...no mambly pambly or moddly coddly, the warnings come out.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I agree completely. One thing troubles me. Why do so many of us single out this one sin for so much attention?

We don't have threads like this about lying or theft, or libel, or fraud.

I believe that the homosexual community would be less inclined to target Christians based on their beliefs if we didn't single out their sins over our own for public exhibition.

The religious have to have someone to judge which are worse then them. so sadly the sexual sinners and the murderers get the brunt of it.

I remember awhile back someone i knew was really getting on the gays, he was on a "mission from god", then I come to find out, he was a divorced man who left his wife because he "fell out of love"and had married again.

I guess as long as he judged what he considered "worse sinners" then he could feel ok about his own sin.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why don't you leave that to God? If they have believed on Jesus Christ and have been born-again, the Holy Spirit inside them will guide them into all truth. The fruit of the Spirit will take fruition in their lives and they will walk in love. What do you mean, "tell them the truth?" Did you tell them the Gospel? Then you told them the truth. If they confessed with their mouth and believed in their heart Jesus Christ, then all is well. Let the rest take care of itself by God working in them, through the process of sanctification.

KennethC brought up the Apostle Paul and his addressing of sin. Realize that Paul dealt with sin in people lives by showing them that they are not acting as who they now are in Christ. They are not acting in alignment with who Christ has made them to be, new creations. People know what is sinful, their conscience bears witness. They need the solution. Its grace, its renewing our minds to who we are in Christ, Jesus.

The idea of repentance being a turning away from sin is more so a boast in the flesh than anything else. True repentance is a turning to Christ and in Jesus Christ we have victory over sin. There is no fleshy boast of a promise to forsake sin, a promise that is empty and can't be kept.

Rather, we go to Christ as sinners and in Him we are transformed into saints. We don't clean ourselves up before taking a bath, in the same way we don't stop sinning before coming to Christ. It is through Jesus, being born-again, having the Holy Spirit residing in us, the fruit of the Spirit and renewing our minds to who we are in Christ that inevitably transforms our outward actions/conduct. It is not a work of our own, but a process of sanctification done by God and through His revelation given to us.

You tell them that they will change as a result of being born-again. Things that they desired once are purged from them. Ways in which they have acted are no longer in alignment with who God has made them to be. They will understand that their actions do no align with who they now are in Christ. That is, the righteousness of God, in Jesus Christ. God will awaken them to righteousness. When people come to Jesus Christ and are converted a change has taken place, and it will have its fruit. Mind you, fruit takes time to bear, to come to full fruition (ripened) and so you don't need to rush the process and condemn babes in Christ. Let them mature at their own pace and as God sees fit.

I think people do not get the new nature and what it entails.

An unbeliever can not do good. it is against his nature, He can APPEAR to do good, but even this good is but bloody rags to Christ because it is done in the flesh. And not in love.

In the same token, A child of God has a new nature, Sin is against this new nature. It is not nature for a child of God to sin, it goes against his make up. that is why so many homosexuals. murderers, Porn addicts, Adulterers have come to Christ by repenting of self, and receiving Gods free gift. Are now living righteous lives pleasing to God. Because they have a new nature. and are learning to live that new nature with Gods guidance.

Again, Maybe as Angela said, this is for another thread.

 

[Willie-T]

The religious have to have someone to judge which are worse then them. so sadly the sexual sinners and the murderers get the brunt of it.

I remember awhile back someone i knew was really getting on the gays, he was on a "mission from god", then I come to find out, he was a divorced man who left his wife because he "fell out of love"and had married again.

I guess as long as he judged what he considered "worse sinners" then he could feel ok about his own sin.

.................................Wowser!!!

 

[Mitspa]

I agree completely. One thing troubles me. Why do so many of us single out this one sin for so much attention?

We don't have threads like this about lying or theft, or libel, or fraud.

I believe that the homosexual community would be less inclined to target Christians based on their beliefs if we didn't single out their sins over our own for public exhibition.

where are they flying flags to promote adultery in the churches?

 

[Mitspa]

Good point. I would bet there are a lot more adulterers in church than there are homosexuals.

Yep...do you tell them its wrong? do you call it sin or try to reason that they was born that way?

 

[FreeNChrist]

where are they flying flags to promote adultery in the churches?

That wasn't a Christian church.