Who wrote the 4 gospels of the New Testament and when?

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atwhatcost

Guest
#81
You show a massive ignorance of lower textual criticism, history and the canon.

FIRST - the earliest manuscripts are used to translate the Bible. If you buy a UBS Greek New Testament, you will see the notations for every minor difference in those manuscripts. None which affect doctrine. Although it is true that the KJV translators used Erasmus' translations, who was forced by the RCC to use the Latin Vulgate in places, making KJV a translation of a translation of a translation, Bible translators do not do that anymore.

Lower criticism or textual criticism is the science of sorting, comparing the existing manuscripts of ancient documents with a view to reconstructing the text or the original as accurately as possible. For example, the Rylands papryus contains portions of John 8:31-33, 37-38 from 130 AD - barely 40 years after the original was first composed. Another two dozen papryri containing part or all of one or more of the Gospels date from the second, third and fourth centuries and are housed in various museums and libraries throughout the world. The five oldest, most reliable and most complete New Testaments date from the fourth and fifth centuries and all contain the gospels quite well preserved. Nothing to do with translating a translation! Or, become corrupted over the centuries. Instead, going back to the earliest texts, which considering the completeness of them, means there had to be many early manscripts for some to be preserved in such excellent condition, you are parroting internet nonsense about the historical text!

The Bible is the most thoroughly scrutinized book in the history of the world. Every single copyist error is known and recorded. That is why understanding how the text has been preserved is so important.

SECOND - To those who are sadly misinformed as the language of New Testament Israel, it was mostly Aramaic. Mark's gospel uses loan words from the Aramaic within the Greek. When Alexander the Great (from 331-323 BC) conquered the known world, one of his goals was to "Hellenize" the world. That means to not only make Greek the main language, but to spread the Greek culture. And it worked! Everyone adopted Greek as the main language of trade and commerce. The Hebrews lost their language so badly, that a Greek translation of the Hebrew Old Testament, known as the Septuagint (LXX) had to be translated soon after that. A simplified form of Attic (Athenian) Greek developed into what is now called "Hellenistic Greek." By New Testament times, the lingua franca, or common language was koine Greek - or common Greek. Greek became the language of business, commerce and relations with the military and political authorities.

THIRD - As for your firm dating, you have obviously been reading some websites which are spewing out lies to discredit the Bible. Traditional dating for Matthew is the late 50's or early 60's, as indicated in the writings of Irenaeus (c 175) who wrote that Peter and Paul were still alive when this gospel was written. The fact that Matthew uses terms like "field of blood," showed connection with conditions in Palestine, and that this is prior to the devastation in Jerusalem in 70 AD. If it had been written after 70 AD, Matthew certainly wouild have note the prophesy about the destruction of Jerusalem had been fulfilled. That he did not, points strongly towards it being written before that point!

Mark was likely written probably before the Jewish war. It is a pastoral response to stressful times, as Christians were facing the death of eye witnesses which created a need to preserve and stablilize the knowledge of Jesus. Mark compiled a written record of the preaching of Peter and perhaps others to edify the church, and aid it in the task of proclaiming the gospel in the Greco-Roman world.

Luke was likely written around 62 AD. Since Luke and Acts are so closely related, they would have been released about the same time. This date is suggested because Paul's death is not noted in Acts, which is mostly the story of Paul. Luke also notes in both Luke 1 and Acts 1, that he is compiling the stories of the eye witnesses to Jesus, life, miracles, ministry and his death and resurrection.

John, written by the Beloved disciple was the last of the gospels written. He does not rely on materials from the other three synoptic gospels as much, but sets an account of both the events and the incarnational theology of Jesus which he witnessed in his gospel. Early church fathers all agree John wrote his gospel. Dating for this gospel is difficult, with dates ranging from 80 AD and upwards. However, internal evidence points to earlier, as John writes his gospel from a presupposition of Judaism before the war which destroyed Jerusalem. Jesus' conflicts with the Jewish leaders, and his critical dispostion toward the temple suggest that the temple was still operational, or John would have mentioned it as a logical result of the Pharisees and scribes wandering far from God's plan and purpose.

A good book to read on this topic is "Jesus and the Gospels: An Introduction and Survey" by Craig L. Blomberg.

A good link to start with is:

https://carm.org/when-were-gospels-written-and-by-whom

Finally, I find it strange that only a few days ago I addressed this whole issue, although not in as great of depth! It was a different person trying to tear apart the gospels, using some of the same words used by the OP. So an alter? Or random chance? I certainly hope the latter, but it is indeed strange that this topic is being forced down our throats again.
Just sayin', but aren't most of us, (not including you or Marc -- but you two are the only ones I can think of right now that get this stuff well), on this site massively ignorant of lower textual criticism, history and the canon? At best, I've only read one book on how the Bible came to be. It's just not one of those things I want to spend years studying. I'm more geared toward what lessons I can pick up from bonehead things biblical people did... and even then because those are the same kinds of things I'd be dumb enough to try.


Sure, we're ignorant. At least GrahamDennis is trying to rise above that.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#82
I have been doing some research and it appears that the four gospels were not written by anyone who actually knew Jesus,the earliest,Mark was apparently written somewhere between 60 and 80 years after Jesus's death,Mathew between 70 and 100,Luke and John after 93yrs of His death and all in Greek,not Hebrew and not by jews. What I can't understand is why the Appostles themselves didn't actually write anything down or did they?
JOHN was an apostle..the one whom Jesus loved..so your sources seem to be in error .....
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#83
It is very unlikely that any book of the NT was penned later than 69 AD. Matthew and Mark were probably written about the same time, around the early to mid 40's while the most likely date for Luke is between 62 and 63 and John in the mid to late 60's
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#84
I really do think that not mentioning the most catastrophic event to ever happen to all of Judaism in any of the gospels HAS to speak volumes to the timeframe in which they were written.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,142
612
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69
Alabama
#85
John, written by the Beloved disciple was the last of the gospels written. He does not rely on materials from the other three synoptic gospels as much, but sets an account of both the events and the incarnational theology of Jesus which he witnessed in his gospel. Early church fathers all agree John wrote his gospel. Dating for this gospel is difficult, with dates ranging from 80 AD and upwards. However, internal evidence points to earlier, as John writes his gospel from a presupposition of Judaism before the war which destroyed Jerusalem. Jesus' conflicts with the Jewish leaders, and his critical dispostion toward the temple suggest that the temple was still operational, or John would have mentioned it as a logical result of the Pharisees and scribes wandering far from God's plan and purpose.

A good book to read on this topic is "Jesus and the Gospels: An Introduction and Survey" by Craig L. Blomberg.

A good link to start with is:

https://carm.org/when-were-gospels-written-and-by-whom

Finally, I find it strange that only a few days ago I addressed this whole issue, although not in as great of depth! It was a different person trying to tear apart the gospels, using some of the same words used by the OP. So an alter? Or random chance? I certainly hope the latter, but it is indeed strange that this topic is being forced down our throats again.
I certainly would not offer much debate on the dating of the gospel of John because as you say it is a very difficult book to date. One might also say the same of the Johannine epistles. Revelation on the other hand is I think very easy to date based on just the internal evidences alone. Personally, I believe Rev to have been written about 63, possibly early 64 AD.
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#86
Your references are Greek. If the disciples wrote what they saw Jesus do and say, they would have written it in Hebrew or Aramaic, and then later it would have been translated to Greek by different people. Study when the Septuagint was finally compiled in AD.
Not true. They would've written the gospels in Greek and that's what we find.
 
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Tintin

Guest
#87
The Gospels or Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were written sometime between Jesus' ascension and the fall of Jerusalem in 70AD. Most likely within the first 10 or so years after Jesus left earth.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
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#88
Well I wasn't being that's specific but from what I'm reading on the internet AD 1 would be the year after Jesus died or am I wrong? 1 or 2 years won't make any difference,I did say dates between x amount of years !!!!
The Anno Domini dating system was devised in 525 A.D. by Dionysius Exiguus from Encyclopedia Britanica
CYRENIUS

Luke 2:1-2
2 And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.
2 (And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.)
KJV


Quirinus held a census in Judaea after the banishment of Archelaus (Joseph. Ant. 18:1, 1), which took place B.C. 6.
(from McClintock and Strong Encyclopedia, Electronic Database. Copyright © 2000, 2003, 2005, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)

This would date the Birth of Jesus at 5 B.C. Dionysius Exiguus dates it at 1 A.D.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
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#89
Your dates are off by about 30 years. Jesus died in or about AD 33. I believe that John completed Revelations about 95 AD.
The Anno Domini dating system was devised in 525 A.D. by Dionysius Exiguus from Encyclopedia Britanica
CYRENIUS

Luke 2:1-2
2 And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.
2 (And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.)
KJV


Quirinus held a census in Judaea after the banishment of Archelaus (Joseph. Ant. 18:1, 1), which took place B.C. 6.
(from McClintock and Strong Encyclopedia, Electronic Database. Copyright © 2000, 2003, 2005, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)

This would date the Birth of Jesus at 5 B.C. Dionysius Exiguus dates it at 1 A.D.


If Jesus earthly ministry began at age 30, that would have been about 25 A.D. if His ministry spanned 3 years, his Death would have been about 28 B.C.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
#90
Your dates are off by about 30 years. Jesus died in or about AD 33. I believe that John completed Revelations about 95 AD.
If John wrote Revelation 25 years after the destruction of the temple, and the enslavement of the Jews of Jerusalem; it seems strange that he indicates no awareness of that event
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
#91
The Anno Domini dating system was devised in 525 A.D. by Dionysius Exiguus from Encyclopedia Britanica
CYRENIUS

Luke 2:1-2
2 And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.
2 (And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.)
KJV


Quirinus held a census in Judaea after the banishment of Archelaus (Joseph. Ant. 18:1, 1), which took place B.C. 6.
(from McClintock and Strong Encyclopedia, Electronic Database. Copyright © 2000, 2003, 2005, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)

This would date the Birth of Jesus at 5 B.C. Dionysius Exiguus dates it at 1 A.D.


If Jesus earthly ministry began at age 30, that would have been about 25 A.D. if His ministry spanned 3 years, his Death would have been about 28 B.C.
Correction: 28 B.C. should read 28 A.D. [obvious typo but still looks strange]
 
T

tanach

Guest
#92
I have been doing some research and it appears that the four gospels were not written by anyone who actually knew Jesus,the earliest,Mark was apparently written somewhere between 60 and 80 years after Jesus's death,Mathew between 70 and 100,Luke and John after 93yrs of His death and all in Greek,not Hebrew and not by jews. What I can't understand is why the Appostles themselves didn't actually write anything down or did they?
There is a tradition that Matthew wrote his Gospel in Hebrew, which figures considering how much of it seems to be directed towards Jewish believers. The writer of Luke states that he knew of other Gospels and had decided to set down his own account. The Theologian William Barclay says in his book on Johns Gospel that it may have been written by someone in the church at Epheses using Johns recollections of his time with Jesus. Much of the first three Gospels cover the same material. It is believed that Marks is the earliest and was used as a basis for the other two. It is interesting to note that
Mark and Matthew are written in a pattern that follows the Jewish Festivals and Torah readings. This is not as noticeable with Luke bcause it seems to be aimed at city based Gentile believers who had less interest in the Harvest related festivals. One view is that these Gospels were actually written to be used as lectionaries by the Jewish Christians after they split from the Synagogues. It is thought by some that they were written before 70AD because the Temple appears to be still standing
had it been destroyed it is argued that at least one Gospel would have mentioned it.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
#93
There is a tradition that Matthew wrote his Gospel in Hebrew, which figures considering how much of it seems to be directed towards Jewish believers. The writer of Luke states that he knew of other Gospels and had decided to set down his own account. The Theologian William Barclay says in his book on Johns Gospel that it may have been written by someone in the church at Epheses using Johns recollections of his time with Jesus. Much of the first three Gospels cover the same material. It is believed that Marks is the earliest and was used as a basis for the other two. It is interesting to note that
Mark and Matthew are written in a pattern that follows the Jewish Festivals and Torah readings. This is not as noticeable with Luke bcause it seems to be aimed at city based Gentile believers who had less interest in the Harvest related festivals. One view is that these Gospels were actually written to be used as lectionaries by the Jewish Christians after they split from the Synagogues. It is thought by some that they were written before 70AD because the Temple appears to be still standing
had it been destroyed it is argued that at least one Gospel would have mentioned it.
It is possible, now more than ever, to do research that will support any conclusion you might want to reach.

You have obviously been reading readers, whose goal is to discredit both the Bible and 4 centuries of highly regarded Church and secular history.

Most of us have different objectives!
 
A

atwhatcost

Guest
#94
It is very unlikely that any book of the NT was penned later than 69 AD. Matthew and Mark were probably written about the same time, around the early to mid 40's while the most likely date for Luke is between 62 and 63 and John in the mid to late 60's
And Revelation? :confused:
 
A

atwhatcost

Guest
#96
63-64AD. Certainly not later than that.
Hm. I thought it was roughly when Jerusalem fell and everyone was panicking. Life got dangerous for Christians before that, huh? (Just surprised. Not saying you're wrong.)
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,142
612
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69
Alabama
#97
Hm. I thought it was roughly when Jerusalem fell and everyone was panicking. Life got dangerous for Christians before that, huh? (Just surprised. Not saying you're wrong.)
Some have placed the date at around 69-70 AD but I do not believe the internal evidences of the book will support such a late date. There is no way it could have been written before 60AD so this leaves a rather narrow margin of possibility.
 
A

atwhatcost

Guest
#98
Some have placed the date at around 69-70 AD but I do not believe the internal evidences of the book will support such a late date. There is no way it could have been written before 60AD so this leaves a rather narrow margin of possibility.
Somewhere in my life, I thought I learned it was written somewhere between 71 AD - 95 AD.
 
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atwhatcost

Guest
That is a popular view but the internal evidences of the book simply not support it.
Really? I actually thought that was the unpopular view on this site. (It gives no room for using Revelation as a fortunetelling book. lol)

Some day I'll get back to the NT and learn more about the history of the books. Right now, in the Pentateuch, it's fairly easy to figure out the history without having to decipher it.