what Col 2:16 is actually saying.

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gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
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#1
This post is not so much to prove the Sabbath should be kept but rather effectual Bible based proof that using Colossians 2:16 to say the 7th day Sabbath is done away with or changed is unfounded.

The first premise is that Paul is teaching truth and that His truth is based in the Old Testament. Thus to properly understand what Paul is teaching here we must examine the source of His material. for this purpose let's look as scriptures where these things happen together. Here is the text in question:

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

So we have: meat and drink, holy day the word used here refers to feast days.:

ἑορτή
heortē
heh-or-tay'
Of uncertain affinity; a festival: - feast, holyday.

meat and drink:
Exo_29:41 And the other lamb thou shalt offer at even, and shalt do thereto according to the meat offering of the morning, and according to the drink offering thereof, for a sweet savour, an offering made by fire unto the LORD.

Lev_23:18 And ye shall offer with the bread seven lambs without blemish of the first year, and one young bullock, and two rams: they shall be for a burnt offering unto the LORD, with their meat offering, and their drink offerings, even an offering made by fire, of sweet savour unto the LORD.

and many other such scriptures show that the meat and drink were offerings this is why Paul mentions them together and they all revolve around the sacrificial system.

What about the other things mentioned by Paul? lets take a look:

1Ch 23:31 And to offer all burnt sacrifices unto the LORD in the sabbaths, in the new moons, and on the set feasts, by number, according to the order commanded unto them, continually before the LORD:

2Ch 2:4 Behold, I build an house to the name of the LORD my God, to dedicate it to him, and to burn before him sweet incense, and for the continual shewbread, and for the burnt offerings morning and evening, on the sabbaths, and on the new moons, and on the solemn feasts of the LORD our God. This is an ordinance for ever to Israel.




2Ch 31:3 He appointed also the king's portion of his substance for the burnt offerings, to wit, for the morning and evening burnt offerings, and the burnt offerings for the sabbaths, and for the new moons, and for the set feasts, as it is written in the law of the LORD.

Neh 10:33 For the shewbread, and for the continual meat offering, and for the continual burnt offering, of the sabbaths, of the new moons, for the set feasts, and for the holy things, and for the sin offerings to make an atonement for Israel, and for all the work of the house of our God.

Eze 46:4 And the burnt offering that the prince shall offer unto the LORD in the sabbath day shall be six lambs without blemish, and a ram without blemish.
Eze 46:5 And the meat offering shall be an ephah for a ram, and the meat offering for the lambs as he shall be able to give, and an hin of oil to an ephah.
Eze 46:6 And in the day of the new moon it shall be a young bullock without blemish, and six lambs, and a ram: they shall be without blemish.
Eze 46:7 And he shall prepare a meat offering, an ephah for a bullock, and an ephah for a ram, and for the lambs according as his hand shall attain unto, and an hin of oil to an ephah.



So we note that all five things mentioned by Paul are all mentioned in connection the the sacrificial offerings for sins.

now here is a scripture that mentions all of the things Paul mentioned and in the same order:


Eze 45:17 And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

note:


Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

All of these were connected to Sacrifices which had to do with an offering for sin. clearly Paul is deriving his point from the scriptures of the time/Old Testament. you can also find all these things connected by reading Numbers 28 and 29.

Now Paul does not use the words, offerings when he speaks, but any person familiar with that time and with the Old Testament would have known exactly to what He was referring to.

Note also that as we have seen that all these things are connected with the sacrificial system for sin. see the context also of Pauls writing here.

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

notice that Jesus death blotted out what? The handwriting of ordinances, what are these?

Well The 10 commandments were written by the finger of God so unlikely that they are here being referred to. But there was a book of the law written by Moses. So lets examine other scriptures that speak of these things.


Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

notice again the same context, Jesus dies for us and thus the law of commandments contained in ordinances. again these ordinances come up.

notice this text connection the law of priesthood to a law of carnal commandment:

Heb 7:15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
Heb 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

again the written law of Moses is likened to a carnal commandment in reference to the priesthood which preformed the sacrifices.

notice this then:


Heb 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

speaking of the sacrificial system it is said they are carnal ordinances imposed till when?

Heb 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

notice also in the Old testament:

Neh 10:32 Also we made ordinances for us, to charge ourselves yearly with the third part of a shekel for the service of the house of our God;
Neh 10:33 For the shewbread, and for the continual meat offering, and for the continual burnt offering, of the sabbaths, of the new moons, for the set feasts, and for the holy things, and for the sin offerings to make an atonement for Israel, and for all the work of the house of our God.

So notice that they made ordinances to provide for the sacrificial system. I hope you are seeing that scripture is unified on this point. the ordinances are the laws written by Moses in connection with the sacrificial system.

Why does Christ put an end to these things? well Hebrews just told us, Jesus is our true offering for sin.


Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Heb 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Heb 10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

And thus Paul says:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

The sacrificial system were only a shadow of the true sacrifice of Jesus Christ, thus when Christ had died and lived again there is not more need for sacrificial ordinances. carnal sacrifices are replaced with the spiritual sacrifice Jesus.

Once more it is evident that while the sacrifices themselves pointed forward to Christ, thus a shadow. The Sabbath commandment itself points back to a finished work:

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Blessings.
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
#2
My how hard they work to keep themselves under the Law.
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
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#3
My how hard they work to keep themselves under the Law.
Interesting reply, unhelpful to say the least. Its a Bible study designed to use the bible to intemperate itself rather than fleeting applications that rely on opinion.
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
#4
Interesting reply, unhelpful to say the least. Its a Bible study designed to use the bible to intemperate itself rather than fleeting applications that rely on opinion.

No. It's your attempt to use the Bible to convince others to place themselves under the Law with you. Misery loves company.
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
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#5
No. It's your attempt to use the Bible to convince others to place themselves under the Law with you. Misery loves company.
Thanx for your input, Do you have anything relevant to the study or is opinion as intellectually helpful as you get?
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
#6
Thanx for your input, Do you have anything relevant to the study or is opinion as intellectually helpful as you get?
Everything I have written is relevant to the "study".
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
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#7
This study does not prove that the Law should be kept and is not intended to. It simply proves that this text is misused when people say it does away with the Sabbath.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#8
This study does not prove that the Law should be kept and is not intended to. It simply proves that this text is misused when people say it does away with the Sabbath.
Nobody's saying the sabbath has been done away with.
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
#9
This study does not prove that the Law should be kept and is not intended to. It simply proves that this text is misused when people say it does away with the Sabbath.
If the Law isn't to be kept, why do a study on why we should keep it?
 
Dec 9, 2011
13,727
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#10
I guess it depends on if you are putting your trust in a day or resting in JESUS.
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
88
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#11
If the Law isn't to be kept, why do a study on why we should keep it?
The study is not on why we should keep it. the study is on what col 2:16 is saying. and what it is not saying. The study does not say whether the Sabbath or law should be kept or not. It simply shows that col 2:16 does not say it should not. But on that note neither does it say it should.
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
#12
The study is not on why we should keep it. the study is on what col 2:16 is saying. and what it is not saying. The study does not say whether the Sabbath or law should be kept or not. It simply shows that col 2:16 does not say it should not. But on that note neither does it say it should.

LOL. Right. And what would be your purpose in "proving" that?
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#13
This whole study is based on a pattern of words that Paul used and is found for the most part in the OT. I guess it didn't occur to you that Paul, being the diligent student of scripture that he was (he probably had the torah memorized), may simply have repeated that pattern of words that his brain was familiar with in order to caution gentile believers against those who were trying to bring them into bondage to the law.

According to your logic the word ordinances mentioned in Colossians 2:14 only pertains to sacrificial laws. But that contradicts the verse itself that says the ordinances were against us. Sacrificial laws weren't against anyone; they were the remedy for breaking the law. But the 10 commandments were very definitely against us because they could only work wrath. Furthermore, gentiles never had anything to do with sacrificial law, so Paul saying in that verse that it was against them is even more ludicrous.

Frankly, if you believe that Jesus died only to do away with a sacrificial system, you are lost in your sins.
 
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gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
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#14
LOL. Right. And what would be your purpose in "proving" that?
clearly you have not read it as you are asking questions it answers within itself. and now this question you ask while quoting the very answer to the question I have already given.
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
#15
clearly you have not read it as you are asking questions it answers within itself. and now this question you ask while quoting the very answer to the question I have already given.
Whatever that means. Look you gave it away by tacking on those Exodus verses at the end. You can stop playing games, what your trying to do is obvious....and futile.
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
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#16
Whatever that means. Look you gave it away by tacking on those Exodus verses at the end. You can stop playing games, what your trying to do is obvious....and futile.
Are you really without understanding?

I put that last bit to show that it clearly did not point forward but backwards. That in and of itself does not prove that the Sabbath should be kept.

Let me give you a hint, You don't tell me what I meant by it. I tell you.

I don't mean that arrogantly. its just a fact, I know why I wrote better than you. you clearly think you know more about me than I do. So I am done with this foolishness.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#17
Furthermore, it says in Colossians 2:15 that Christ spoiled satanic principalities and powers and triumphed over them. He took away their power by setting us free from the law.

Now the sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ! 1 Corinthians 15:56-57
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
#18
Are you really without understanding?

I put that last bit to show that it clearly did not point forward but backwards. That in and of itself does not prove that the Sabbath should be kept.

Let me give you a hint, You don't tell me what I meant by it. I tell you.

I don't mean that arrogantly. its just a fact, I know why I wrote better than you. you clearly think you know more about me than I do. So I am done with this foolishness.
Okay, you tell me, are you one who believes that the Sabbath day is a requirement for us to keep?
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
88
48
#19
This whole study is based on a pattern of words that Paul used and is found for the most part in the OT. I guess it didn't occur to you that Paul, being the diligent student of scripture that he was (he probably had the torah memorized), may simply have repeated that pattern of words that his brain was familiar with in order to caution gentile believers against those who were trying to bring them into bondage to the law.

According to your logic the word ordinances mentioned in Colossians 2:14 only pertains to sacrificial laws. But that contradicts the verse itself that says the ordinances were against us. Sacrificial laws weren't against anyone; they were the remedy for breaking the law. But the 10 commandments were very definitely against us because they could only work wrath. Furthermore, gentiles never had anything to do with sacrificial law, so Paul saying in that verse that it was against them is even more ludicrous.

Frankly, if you believe that Jesus died only to do away with a sacrificial system, you are lost in your sins.
First I have demonstrated that the Ordinances are connected to the sacrificial system written by Moses. I did not say that these are the only things Jesus lifted. but contextually the sacrificial system is being primarily delta with by Paul here.

Before I show Biblical what was against us I will first demonstrate the error in your point here.

You Said That the 10 commandments were against us, but you did not say why. Paul says this:

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

Notice the law showed sin but it was actually ordained for life not death. It became death why because we were sinners. Note the issue is us not the law. the law is:

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

So this law is against us as sinners but is it still against us once our sins are paid for?

Besides this point lets do away with them then, now we can break them all. we can kill etc. Now I know you don't think that but it shows the illegitimate concept that the 10 were here being spoken of.

But we have already demonstrated in the OP that here is not speaking about the law that God wrote but the ordinances written by Moses. So how are they against us?

Lets examine Scripture:

Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

now notice that this is in connection again with Christ death for us. He has redeemed us from the curse of the law. what is the curse of the law? notice that Jesus became the curse for us and he died. The curse is death or rather leads to death. notice also the verse before it:

Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

This is a quote from the Old Testament. here:

Lev 18:5 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am the LORD.

This is taken from the ordinances Moses wrote concerning the Priesthood. notice the words before this one:

Lev 18:3 After the doings of the land of Egypt, wherein ye dwelt, shall ye not do: and after the doings of the land of Canaan, whither I bring you, shall ye not do: neither shall ye walk in their ordinances.
Lev 18:4 Ye shall do my judgments, and keep mine ordinances, to walk therein: I am the LORD your God.

Which were written Down by Moses.

So clearly we have a quote from the ordinances God gave Moses who wrote them and they are to do with the priesthood as that is what Leviticus is about. Then Paul says straight after in connection with Jesus death we are redeemed from the curse. Again totally in line with the OP.

Verse 13 says:

again before that even Paul says:

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Notice "book" of the law written by Moses. SO what was this curse exactly?

You will find the curses in the book of Deuteronomy which shows exactly what Paul is talking about, things that you need to obey which includes the feasts and priesthood etc.

Deu 29:20 The LORD will not spare him, but then the anger of the LORD and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the LORD shall blot out his name from under heaven.
Deu 29:21 And the LORD shall separate him unto evil out of all the tribes of Israel, according to all the curses of the covenant that are written in this book of the law:
Deu 29:22 So that the generation to come of your children that shall rise up after you, and the stranger that shall come from a far land, shall say, when they see the plagues of that land, and the sicknesses which the LORD hath laid upon it;

etc. The curses were for disobedience to well basically the whole Old Covenant all the law all inclusive.

This is the point, Paul showed clearly that it was the written book of the law that did not save. but in fact had curses that were against us. but Jesus death takes these curses of the law away. These are found in the ordinances. Paul clearly links them to the law of the priesthood and sacrifices.

Hebrews shows the same pattern.

The whole law was in this case against us every bit. because we were sinners. but Jesus the true sacrifice, took away the priesthood and animal sacrifices and the laws of curses which were against us and nailed them to the cross as He became the curse for us. He was separated He was hung outside the gate, He was rejected by His own, He was crushed for our sins. And thus the curse is removed.
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
88
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#20
Okay, you tell me, are you one who believes that the Sabbath day is a requirement for us to keep?
The answer to that question does not affect this post or its purpose.