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aspen

aspen

Banned
#1
Feb 3, 2010
1,238
3
0
#1
The Pharisee were confronted by Jesus because of their pride, not their doctrine. They were so prideful that they made it tougher for everyone to connect with God at the Temple and have their sins forgiven, than to simply live in sin. Jesus spend a lot of time on Earth confronting pride; a sin which often manifests in our need to control others. Many of the conversations on this board turn from a discussion into a contest to find out who is right, which is the same pride the Pharisees held in their hearts.

So, ask yourself, does any of this really matter? Is forcing you opinion going to make it right? What I have noticed is that truth is going to exist whether I believe it or not.

I think this same mentality is applied the Bible. I have never seen a document that is so misused or dissected for meaning as the Bible. I think it is all about controlling the information within the book. The NT is not an instruction manual! The message is love and avoid any behavior that gets in the way of loving.
 
MahogonySnail

MahogonySnail

Banned
#2
Jan 8, 2009
7,576
23
0
#2
Is it called pride to believe the sky is blue , and not agree with others who say it is green?
 
aspen

aspen

Banned
#3
Feb 3, 2010
1,238
3
0
#3
MahogonySnail said:
Is it called pride to believe the sky is blue , and not agree with others who say it is green?
Click to expand...
No, not as long as you give them the same freedom that God gives them; the freedom to believe what they want to believe. No agreement is necessary.

It seems to be a strictly conservative fear than if others are allowed to live by their own principles, somehow it takes away the rights of us to live by our own principles. It is very strange, but I think it is very true.
 
MahogonySnail

MahogonySnail

Banned
#4
Jan 8, 2009
7,576
23
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#4
It's just occurred to me you're describing a hippie camp. :p
 
M

MaggieMye

Guest
#6
#6
Aspen: Are familiar with teachings on the 'religious spirit'. THAT is what the pharisees were operating under. And yes, of course, it is based in Pride.

I just read a book called "Freedom From the Religious Spirit"......VERY GOOD!!
Maggie
 
VW

VW

Banned
#7
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
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#7
their pride, while extremely ungodly, was not their major sin.

they did not worship god, but their traditions and beliefs. they believed in god, but wanted him to stay far away from them, so no one could dispute their position.

their ultimate downfall was their idolatry. their religion was more important to them than god, whom it was to represent

this is the same problem jesus will confront upon his return.
 
MahogonySnail

MahogonySnail

Banned
#8
Jan 8, 2009
7,576
23
0
#8
There's actually no such thing as a religious spirit, in the sense of a demon that goes around and puts people under a legalistic spell. There's no concept of such a thign in the bible. It's a modern pentecostal term coined by Wagner I think it was, and it's another way to blame the devil. But the behaviour exhibited by those under a "religious spirit" is nothing more than them operating out of their self-preserving humanity/flesh. When we talk about a religious spirit we are talking about a mindset, not an actual evil spirit.
 
VW

VW

Banned
#9
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
0
#9
MahogonySnail said:
There's actually no such thing as a religious spirit, in the sense of a demon that goes around and puts people under a legalistic spell. There's no concept of such a thign in the bible. It's a modern pentecostal term coined by Wagner I think it was, and it's another way to blame the devil. But the behaviour exhibited by those under a "religious spirit" is nothing more than them operating out of their self-preserving humanity/flesh. When we talk about a religious spirit we are talking about a mindset, not an actual evil spirit.
Click to expand...
i have to disagree with you here snail. if the devil can get people to believe that their way of seeing god is acceptable to god, without his power of revelation to reveal himself, this is a religious spirit. the way of seeing god in this person is influenced by a spirit being. do you believe that all of those hindus and budists just made up what they believe? every false religion has been started by devils.

i mean, john smith found a book that could only be read by looking through a magical pair of glasses.

jim jones had power, and lead many to death. the examples are endless.
 
pickles

pickles

Senior Member
#10
Apr 20, 2009
14,479
182
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#10
It could also be said, that their importance (pride) was based on their measure of knowladge and how they imposed it upon others.
God bless, pickles
 
A

Ash_JFF

Guest
#11
#11
VW said:
their pride, while extremely ungodly, was not their major sin.

they did not worship god, but their traditions and beliefs. they believed in god, but wanted him to stay far away from them, so no one could dispute their position.

their ultimate downfall was their idolatry. their religion was more important to them than god, whom it was to represent

this is the same problem jesus will confront upon his return.
Click to expand...

I believe that as well. Pride stems from idolatry. We are putting ourselves before God.
 
aspen

aspen

Banned
#12
Feb 3, 2010
1,238
3
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#12
MaggieMye said:
Aspen: Are familiar with teachings on the 'religious spirit'. THAT is what the pharisees were operating under. And yes, of course, it is based in Pride.

I just read a book called "Freedom From the Religious Spirit"......VERY GOOD!!
Maggie
Click to expand...
Interesting - thanks for the suggestion.
 
aspen

aspen

Banned
#13
Feb 3, 2010
1,238
3
0
#13
VW said:
their pride, while extremely ungodly, was not their major sin.

they did not worship god, but their traditions and beliefs. they believed in god, but wanted him to stay far away from them, so no one could dispute their position.

their ultimate downfall was their idolatry. their religion was more important to them than god, whom it was to represent

this is the same problem jesus will confront upon his return.
Click to expand...
Yes, but since they were the dispensers and keepers of the religion - I am calling it power, control, pride.

I do understand what you are saying about idolatry though.
 
aspen

aspen

Banned
#14
Feb 3, 2010
1,238
3
0
#14
MahogonySnail said:
There's actually no such thing as a religious spirit, in the sense of a demon that goes around and puts people under a legalistic spell. There's no concept of such a thign in the bible. It's a modern pentecostal term coined by Wagner I think it was, and it's another way to blame the devil. But the behaviour exhibited by those under a "religious spirit" is nothing more than them operating out of their self-preserving humanity/flesh. When we talk about a religious spirit we are talking about a mindset, not an actual evil spirit.
Click to expand...
Thank you Snail.
 
aspen

aspen

Banned
#15
Feb 3, 2010
1,238
3
0
#15
pickles said:
It could also be said, that their importance (pride) was based on their measure of knowladge and how they imposed it upon others.
God bless, pickles
Click to expand...

Absolutely!!!
 
VW

VW

Banned
#16
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
0
#16
aspen said:
Yes, but since they were the dispensers and keepers of the religion - I am calling it power, control, pride.

I do understand what you are saying about idolatry though.
Click to expand...
we know that god was very angry with these guys. never did we hear harsher words from jesus than to the scribes and the pharisees. and there is a very specific reason for god's anger to burn against these men.

they were doing many things wrong, and their heart attitudes were very wrong also. but what made god incensed with them was they prevented the people from coming to god by their teachings.

their teachings were designed to gain and maintain a place of importance for themselves, and to do so, they discredited every teacher or prophet who was pointing the way into fellowship with god. they actively fought against the ministers god had raised up to lead the people back to him. it is the same story about the same religious spirit, who has been doing these thing for a long time, and is even doing them today.
 
phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#17
Feb 12, 2009
8,260
2,111
113
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#17
aspen said:
The Pharisee were confronted by Jesus because of their pride, not their doctrine. They were so prideful that they made it tougher for everyone to connect with God at the Temple and have their sins forgiven, than to simply live in sin. Jesus spend a lot of time on Earth confronting pride; a sin which often manifests in our need to control others. Many of the conversations on this board turn from a discussion into a contest to find out who is right, which is the same pride the Pharisees held in their hearts.

So, ask yourself, does any of this really matter? Is forcing you opinion going to make it right? What I have noticed is that truth is going to exist whether I believe it or not.

I think this same mentality is applied the Bible. I have never seen a document that is so misused or dissected for meaning as the Bible. I think it is all about controlling the information within the book. The NT is not an instruction manual! The message is love and avoid any behavior that gets in the way of loving.
Click to expand...

I like your post aspen,

However, I know exactly what you are saying. there are some argument (and yes i will call them arguments) about doctrines within Evangelical circle, and to be honest it doesn't really matter, I am talking about things like, infant baptism, second baptism of the spirit things like that.

Now when it comes to things that are heretical as in the 'infallible Roman catholic Dogmas' then we should stand up for the truth. the 'Mariianne beliefs, praying for intercession from dead people' ' a works based salvation' these are the types of things that keep people away from a true relationship with Christ, something similar to the yoke the Pharisees laid on the jewish people.

By the way a 'works based salvation' is one of the many things the Pharisees worked so hard at, and what Paul spent so much time in his letters to speak against (Galatians/Romans).

the pride and religious system of the Pharisees.. has got absolutely nothing to do with standing up for the truth.

Kind regards

Phil
 
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