Job, was he a] blameless or b] vile?

Roberth · Nov 5, 2015

Four verses to contemplate:

Job 1:8 Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.”

Job 31:6 Let God weigh me in honest scales and He will know that I am blameless

Job 40:4 Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth....42:6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.

Roberth · Nov 5, 2015

Job 32:1 Then these three men (Eliphaz, Bildad & Zophar) ceased answering Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes.

2 But the anger of Elihu...burned; against Job his anger burned because he justified himself before God. 3 And his anger burned against his three friends (Eliphaz, Bildad & Zophar) because they had found no answer, and yet had condemned Job.

Roberth · Nov 5, 2015

Now compare Saul the Pharisee before he became the great Apostle Paul and the champion of justification by faith:

Before:

Phil 3:5 as to the Law,a Pharisee;6 as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless.

After:

Phil 3:7 but what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. 8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

1 Tim 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am (present tense) chief.

oldhermit · Nov 5, 2015

Roberth said:

1:8 is God's estimation of Job.
31:6 is Job's defense of himself toward the false accusations of his friends.
40:4 is Job's estimation of himself compared to the greatness of Jehovah.

shotgunner · Nov 5, 2015

All that is necessary to be righteous in God's sight, is to uphold the covenant. It doesn't now, nor has it ever meant, to do no wrong. We don't know exactly what Job's covenant was with God. We do know that it protected his life because God wouldn't allow Satan to take Job's life.

It is also important to remember that our covenant is one of faith in Jesus Christ. We are upright before God by faith.

phil112 · Nov 5, 2015

Roberth said:

Are you asking? Okay, in his eyes or in God's eyes?
Tell me which view you want and it will be an easy answer.

VioletReigns · Nov 5, 2015

Job, was he a] blameless or b] vile?

All of God's children are blameless in His sight because of Jesus Christ. We are holy vessels because of the Lord.

All of us are vile in our flesh (ego, carnal mind) because it's impossible for the flesh to receive anything from God.

Soooo................. was Job blameless or vile? The answer is: YES!

Roberth · Nov 5, 2015

oldhermit said:

Actually, no....It is Job's view of himself repeated by God to Satan. Why? God is no longer representing Job by Christ's coming righteousness because Job is too busy presenting his own self-righteousness before God. Therefore God hands Job partially over to Satan.

Yes, Job's 3 friends are accusing Job wrongly, but then Elihu (the 4th man) steps in and shows Job his real problem: He justifies his righteousness before God. That's Self-righteousness!

No, Job covers His mouth because of his claims to holiness. He repents of his self-righteousness. He now views his righteousness as vile in comparison to God's righteousness.

Roberth · Nov 5, 2015

phil112 said:

In Job's eyes he was righteous. In God's eyes Job was self-righteous so much that God had to partially abandon him to get him to see his problem..

Roberth · Nov 5, 2015

Here's more:

Job 35:1 (Elihu to Job) Do you think it is just when you say, "I am righteous before God"? (HCS)

Within the context of Job chapter 35, Elihu says:

"So Job opens his mouth with empty talk; without knowledge he multiplies words." (Job 35:16)

In other words Job is self-deceived in his claims to righteousness.

The question is does God agree with what Elihu stated? Remember Elihu claims to speak in God's behalf (see Job 36:1).

Job 38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the storm. He said: 2 "Who is this that darkens my counsel with words without knowledge?"

This is the first time God speaks directly to Job. So when did God counsel Job?

Answer: Through Elihu!

God is in agreement with Elihu! Both of them tell Job that his claims to righteousness are words spoken without knowledge. What is Job's reply?

"Then Job answered the Lord and said: 4 "Behold, I am vile; What shall I answer You? I lay my hand over my mouth.

What a difference we see in Job now. Before this Job claimed to be righteous before God. He claimed to be without sin. He claimed to be blameless.

But now we see a changed man. We see a humble Job who realizes that his righteousness was really self-righteousness and he realized that in comparison to God's righteousness he was actually "vile".

Not only did Job have a change of heart but he also repented of his self-righteousness:

Job 42:1 Then Job answered the Lord and said: .... 3 You asked, 'Who is this who hides counsel without knowledge?' Therefore I have uttered what I did not understand, Things too wonderful for me, which I did not know.... 6 Therefore I abhor myself, And repent in dust and ashes

Roberth · Nov 5, 2015

Key verses:

Job's self-righteousness:

"Let God weigh me (Job) in honest scales and he will know that I am blameless" [Job:31:6]

God, through Elihu, rebukes Job:

Job 33:8 "But you have said in my hearing-- I heard the very words-- 9 'I am pure and without sin; I am clean and free from guilt."

Job 36:1 Elihu continued: 2 "Bear with me a little longer and I will show you that there is more to be said in God's behalf...

Job's problem:

Job 32:1 Then these three men ceased answering Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes. 2 But the anger of Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite, of the family of Ram burned; against Job his anger burned because he justified himself before God.

Job repents:

Job 40:3 Then Job answered the LORD, and said , 4 "Behold, I am vile..." Job 42:6 "Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes"...

Job's wealth is restored:

Job 42:12 "The LORD blessed the latter part of Job's life more than the first."

Conclusion:

When God said that Job was blameless, He was presenting Job's view of himself.

Principle: “everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted”

oldhermit · Nov 5, 2015

Roberth said:

This is God's estimation of Job before Satan is allowed to test Job. Just read the text.

It was not because Job claimed to be righteous. It was because he had questioned God in all of these experiences. In 1:22 the text says that in all of this Job sinned not and he maintained this integrity through the entire book.
"Although I am right, I am considered a liar; although I am guiltless, his arrow inflicts an incurable wound." 34:6

Roberth · Nov 5, 2015

oldhermit said:

Why was Satan allowed to touch Job?

Job's three friends said it because Job was cherishing sin, but they couldn't prove what sin.

Then Elihu, who was used of God, stated that Job's problem was self-righteousness.

The sin of self-righteousness is the hardest sin to expose. And the only way for God to show Job his problem was to allow Satan to touch him.

Now, what if you stood before God's law and claimed that you were blameless? What would Christ do? Remember He is representing you in Himself before God and His law. If you were to reject His righteousness, for your own righteousness (which is self-righteousness) then Jesus will no longer represent you in Himself. What then? He will turn you over to Satan so that you might be saved.

Roberth · Nov 5, 2015

oldhermit said:

"There is none righteous, no, not even one"

oldhermit · Nov 5, 2015

Roberth said:

I suggest you read this book again. Nowhere in this book does God accuse Job of having sinned in any of this. All of his friends accuse him of sin but never God. God never tells Job why all of this was allowed to be done to him. It was none of Job's business why God allowed all of this. God does not have to explain himself to man and this is what Job comes to realize in the end. At the end of the book God has Job offer a sacrifice on behalf of his friends because they were the ones who had sinned.

oldhermit · Nov 5, 2015

Roberth said:

God is the one who calls him righteous. You will need to take it up with the Lord.

ember · Nov 5, 2015

Roberth said:

that's just baloney

the book of Job makes no reference to the sin of self-righteousness whatsoever

I'm thinking you started this thread as a trick question to create awareness of your (ahem) novel approach and the nugget of truth you have extracted that no one else has ever seen

just lovin it

VioletReigns · Nov 5, 2015

Roberth said:

As long as you condemn Job and call him vile and unrighteous, you are focusing on his flesh.... and not focusing on the reality of life in God. We walk by faith, not by sight. We are to no longer acknowledge each other by the outward man.

Jim Minker, Christian author wrote:

"Our problem with the written word (aka. the Bible) is the very same as our problem with life itself. We have learned to assume that there is no relevancy between our actual life and God. To help resolve our conflicts and confusion we have resorted to religion - NOT to God. What I’m saying is that as long as we read the Bible in view of our expectations, we will continue to view it in the same manner that we view our day to day living. But the truth is that Christ is not only the living center of the written word, he is also the living center of life itself. No, no, not life as we perceive it, but life as it really is. The understanding of Christ is not only the understanding of the Bible, it is the understanding of life … because Christ is the understanding of GOD."

ladylynn · Nov 6, 2015

VioletReigns said:

As long as you condemn Job and call him vile and unrighteous, you are focusing on his flesh.... and not focusing on the reality of life in God. We walk by faith, not by sight. We are to no longer acknowledge each other by the outward man.

Jim Minker, Christian author wrote:

"Our problem with the written word (aka. the Bible) is the very same as our problem with life itself. We have learned to assume that there is no relevancy between our actual life and God. To help resolve our conflicts and confusion we have resorted to religion - NOT to God. What I’m saying is that as long as we read the Bible in view of our expectations, we will continue to view it in the same manner that we view our day to day living. But the truth is that Christ is not only the living center of the written word, he is also the living center of life itself. No, no, not life as we perceive it, but life as it really is. The understanding of Christ is not only the understanding of the Bible, it is the understanding of life … because Christ is the understanding of GOD."

Is it ok to say "BRAVO" because that was a BRAVO post!!!! Thank YOU JESUS!!!

Roberth · Nov 6, 2015

oldhermit said:

God, through Elihu, rebukes Job. Did you bother to look at the context? Here is is again:

Job 33:8 "But you have said in my hearing-- I heard the very words-- 9 'I am pure and without sin; I am clean and free from guilt."

Job 36:1 Elihu continued: 2 "Bear with me a little longer and I will show you that there is more to be said in God's behalf...

God is using Elihu to show Job his problem.

Job, was he a] blameless or b] vile?

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