Torah observer claim examined: "Law of Moses" is the Oral Law in Acts 15

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sparkman

Guest
#1
The assertion of many Torah observers is that the "Law of Moses" referred to in Acts 15 is the oral law of the Jews, and not the Mosaic (Old) Covenant.

However, this assertion can be easily disproved by doing a phrase search.

Go to blueletterbible.org and do a search on "Law of Moses" with the phrase in quotation marks. I have done this for you and here are the results:

https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria="Law+of+Moses"&t=ESV#s=s_primary_0_1

Note that Acts 28:23 the phrase is referring directly to the Torah. The Scripture was traditionally divided into three groups: the Law (Torah), Prophets (all the minor and major prophets), and the Writings or Psalms(Psalm, Ecclesiastes, Job, etc).

More noticeably, see I Cor 9:9.

I Cor 9:9 For it is written in the Law of Moses, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain.” Is it for oxen that God is concerned?

This is a quote from the Torah:

Deut 25:4 “You shall not muzzle an ox when it is treading out the grain.

So, the claim that the Oral Law is what is being addressed here is bogus. It is talking about the Mosaic Covenant. Read the rest of the references using "Law of Moses" on the phrase search that I provided and come to your own conclusions. The elements mentioned in many of these references apply to the Mosaic Covenant.

I think the reason that the four items are mentioned is that they were particularly strong issues amongst the Gentile believers as they tended to be associated with idolatry and its accompanying sexual practices.

This claim that Acts 15 is about the oral law is one of many rescue devices that Torah observers have created in order to support their beliefs. When I was a member of the Armstrongite organization that taught similar theology, we called them "difficult scriptures" instead of "rescue devices" but it's the same concept. If something clashes with your worldview, you find some way to explain around it because you are deeply entrenched in your position.

For a while I thought that if Christians were presented with the proper explanations concerning the problems with their views, they would change from them, but I now think Christians are almost as deeply entrenched in their worldviews as atheists and skeptics. In fact I think atheists and skeptics are often more reachable than certain groups within Christianity.

I would suggest reading "Sabbath in Christ" by Dale Ratzlaff, along with the accompanying Scriptures that he refers to, in order to clear up the related issues regarding the Old (Mosaic) Covenant and the New Covenant. I would also suggest reading Romans 7:1-7, II Corinthians 3, Galatians 3, Hebrews 8 and 9, and Acts 15. All of these indicate that the Mosaic Covenant is not applicable to New Covenant believers. Jews in the early church continued to observe many of these practices because it was part of their culture, and not out of compulsion. See Acts 21 for an example of this, which included even physical circumcision.

Before someone accuses me of quoting things out of context, I strongly suggest reading the whole chapters or books or the whole Bible in context. Those who quote out of context often accuse others of quoting out of context :) Those who accuse others of using bad hermeneutics often emply bad hermeneutics :) They do whatever is necessary to maintain their world view.

Also, when dealing with such individuals, look for inconsistencies....do they claim the Mosaic Law is applicable to New Covenant believers, yet fail to observe the clean/unclean laws regarding women and their monthly cycle? In the Old Covenant, these women were required to live outside of the home during that period...and anything they touched became unclean. Do they throw away a couch if a woman who is having her period sits on it? Do they publish a list of the cycles of women so that they can avoid shaking her hand at services and becoming unclean? When it comes down to it, most of these individuals are simply inconsistent in their observance of the Mosaic Covenant despite their claims.

Before I get accused of being a lawbreaker, I am submitted to Christ and the commandments which apply to me, not the Old Covenant, which applied to ancient Israel. There are underlying spiritual and moral principles within the Old Covenant which can be discerned by spiritual eyes and which have value to the Christian life, but the specific applications to the nation of Israel don't apply. There are tons of deeper teachings in the Gospels and epistles which do apply to me.

The way I view it, the Old Covenant was like kindergarten level spirituality whereas the New Covenant is like college level. Those who proclaim it as the standard are like someone who wants to stay in kindergarten for the rest of their lives. In kindergarten, the teacher put us in a single straight line and walked us down to the cafeteria, carefully making sure that we didn't get lost on the way. In high school, we are able to walk to the cafeteria ourselves without a teacher to keep is in line. The analogy is very similar to the difference between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant. The difference is the Holy Spirit which empowers the spirit-filled believer to obey the intent without necessarily doing all the specifics required of the carnal nation of Israel.

In the end, though, I have no issue if someone wants to meet on Saturday, or any holy day, or eat only "clean" meats according to the Mosaic Covenant...the observances may have meaning for them. It's when they claim that they are a requirement or a condition or necessary fruit of salvation that it becomes problematic. To a lesser degree, the insinuation that non-observers are living in sin is also annoying. One particular individual on this site keeps insinuating I might suffer eternal punishment if I don't go back to observing these things and that is extremely annoying to me regardless of his intentions.

By the way, someone else asked me about this question so I decided to create the response for the forum members to see so they are aware of the issues related with this assertion. I likely won't be monitoring the responses because I know that the individuals who hold these views are pretty much impenetrable and the conversation stirs up more heat than light. Feel free to mail me on cc if you have additional questions.
 
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sparkman

Guest
#2
Re: Torah observer claim examined: "Law of Moses" is the Oral Law in Acts 15

Another question you might ask Torah observers is if they are in fellowship with a local body of believers, and if they are in submission to church leadership. Despite all the claims concerning their obedience to God through observing Sabbath, holy days and unclean laws, many of them aren't in fellowship like the New Covenant requires, and aren't in submission to church leadership. Their claims are contrary to their profession. I have found the same issue with regards to sinless perfectionists. Ask a sinless perfectionist if he is a part of a local body of believers, is fellowshipping with them regularly, and is underneath church authority. Quite often (probably at least 80 percent of the time) they will say no or they won't answer the question because it would condemn their hypocrisy. There are legitimate reasons not to be in fellowship, such as being disabled or in a persecuted country for a specific reason, but these situations don't apply to most of these people. If someone is not in regular fellowship and isn't in submission to local church leadership, there is a huge inconsistency in their claims. I was not in fellowship for quite some time while backslidden, but I didn't go out dispensing advice on righteousness during that time period either.
 
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sparkman

Guest
#3
Re: Torah observer claim examined: "Law of Moses" is the Oral Law in Acts 15

As an additional comment, Christ did speak out against oral traditions of the Jews, however this isn't what the phrase "Law of Moses" is concerning. It is applying to the Old Covenant, which was done away with when Christ appeared as our High Priest after the resurrection.

Read the other Scriptures I referred to such as Romans 7:1-7, II Cor 3, Hebrews 8 and 9, and Galatians 3 and 4. It is plain that what was discontinued was "written" and was not oral.

Particularly read Romans 7:1-7 to see that it was the Old Covenant "law" that was done away with, and not just the covenant either..this is another bogus claim, that the New Covenant really isn't a New Covenant but is a Renewed Covenant.

The church progressively understood the massive significance of what Christ's death involved, and Acts 15 was one of the first indications of that significance.
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
689
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#4
Re: Torah observer claim examined: "Law of Moses" is the Oral Law in Acts 15

Another question you might ask Torah observers is if they are in fellowship with a local body of believers, and if they are in submission to church leadership. Despite all the claims concerning their obedience to God through observing Sabbath, holy days and unclean laws, many of them aren't in fellowship like the New Covenant requires, and aren't in submission to church leadership. Their claims are contrary to their profession. I have found the same issue with regards to sinless perfectionists. Ask a sinless perfectionist if he is a part of a local body of believers, is fellowshipping with them regularly, and is underneath church authority. Quite often (probably at least 80 percent of the time) they will say no or they won't answer the question because it would condemn their hypocrisy. There are legitimate reasons not to be in fellowship, such as being disabled or in a persecuted country for a specific reason, but these situations don't apply to most of these people. If someone is not in regular fellowship and isn't in submission to local church leadership, there is a huge inconsistency in their claims. I was not in fellowship for quite some time while backslidden, but I didn't go out dispensing advice on righteousness during that time period either.
This has become a touchstone of the faith to some: submission to authority. The church is not a military organization. Submission to the spirit of truth is required of every believer, but participating in an authority hierarchy, or structure, is not required. Submit to each other, but beware of men who claim their authority is supreme.
 
S

sparkman

Guest
#5
Re: Torah observer claim examined: "Law of Moses" is the Oral Law in Acts 15

I also think it's pretty funny that these Hebrew Roots guys come along 1900 years later and claim they are here to school the rest of Christianity on the "true religion". Especially since so many of them lack academic and linguistic training and are not capable of making the assertions they are making.

They learn a few dozen Hebrew words and constantly employ them to make sure that us "pagan Christians" are aware of their so-called superior Bible knowledge.

In the times of Christ, Pharisees wore these big broad phylacteries on their foreheads to promote their advanced spirituality. With regards to Hebrew Roots people, the phylacteries are on their tongues..they employ these words like a verbal form of phylacteries to make sure everyone else takes notice of them and their supposed advanced spirituality.

All the while, many of these people also hold other outlandish conspiracy theories which refute their supposed spiritually advanced status.

It reminds me quite a bit of Armstrongism. The founder of Armstrongism's knowledge of Greek and Hebrew was basically a Strong's concordance yet he was making pronouncements that affected tens of thousands of people. Most language scholars say it takes at least six years of dedicated language study in order to reach a level of competence where one is competent to begin making linguistic assertions which would challenge the understanding of scholars. I guarantee you that most making these asertions lack that.

Michael Brown, who is a Messianic Jew who holds a PhD in Semitic language, has refuted a lot of assertions of Hebrew Roots people, including their claims concerning the Hebrew pictographic alphabet, which are sheer nonsense according to him.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
400
83
63
#6
Re: Torah observer claim examined: "Law of Moses" is the Oral Law in Acts 15

the children rebelled against me,” continued God, through the Prophet Ezekiel.
“[T]hey polluted MY sabbaths?…” (verse 21).

He scattered them, in national captivity and slavery (verse 23).
“Because they had not executed MY judgments, but had despised MY statutes,
and had polluted MY sabbaths, and their eyes were after their FATHERS’ idols”

“And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries
wherein ye are scattered?…?with fury poured out. And I will bring you into
the wilderness of the people [coming exodus—Jeremiah 23:7-8],

and there will I plead with you face to face” (Ezekiel 20:34-35).
“Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt,
SO will I plead with you, saith the Lord God?.… And I will purge out from among
you the rebels, and them that transgress against me?…?
and YE shall know that I am the Lord” (verses 36-38).


43And there shall ye remember your ways, and all your doings, wherein ye have been defiled;
and ye shall [lothe yourselves] in your own sight for all your evils that ye have committed.

44And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have wrought with you for my name's sake,
not according to your wicked ways, nor according to your corrupt doings, O ye house of Israel,
saith the Lord God.

Ezekiel36
21But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned
among the heathen, whither they went.Therefore say unto the house of Israel,
Thus saith the Lord God; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but
for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

23And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen,
which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that
I am the Lord, saith the Lord God, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

24For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries,
and will bring you into your own land.25Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you,
and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will
take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27And I will put my spirit within you, and [cause you to walk] in [my statutes],
and ye[ shall] keep [my judgments], and do them.

28And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people,
and I will be your God. 29I will also save you from all your uncleannesses:
and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.

30And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye
shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.

31Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good,
and [shall lothe yourselves] in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.

38As the holy flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts;
so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I am the Lord.



And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another,
and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
 
Oct 31, 2015
2,290
588
113
#7
Re: Torah observer claim examined: "Law of Moses" is the Oral Law in Acts 15

the children rebelled against me,” continued God, through the Prophet Ezekiel.
“[T]hey polluted MY sabbaths?…” (verse 21).

He scattered them, in national captivity and slavery (verse 23).
“Because they had not executed MY judgments, but had despised MY statutes,
and had polluted MY sabbaths, and their eyes were after their FATHERS’ idols”

“And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries
wherein ye are scattered?…?with fury poured out. And I will bring you into
the wilderness of the people [coming exodus—Jeremiah 23:7-8],

and there will I plead with you face to face” (Ezekiel 20:34-35).
“Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt,
SO will I plead with you, saith the Lord God?.… And I will purge out from among
you the rebels, and them that transgress against me?…?
and YE shall know that I am the Lord” (verses 36-38).


43And there shall ye remember your ways, and all your doings, wherein ye have been defiled;
and ye shall [lothe yourselves] in your own sight for all your evils that ye have committed.

44And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have wrought with you for my name's sake,
not according to your wicked ways, nor according to your corrupt doings, O ye house of Israel,
saith the Lord God.

Ezekiel36
21But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned
among the heathen, whither they went.Therefore say unto the house of Israel,
Thus saith the Lord God; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but
for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

23And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen,
which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that
I am the Lord, saith the Lord God, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

24For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries,
and will bring you into your own land.25Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you,
and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will
take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27And I will put my spirit within you, and [cause you to walk] in [my statutes],
and ye[ shall] keep [my judgments], and do them.

28And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people,
and I will be your God. 29I will also save you from all your uncleannesses:
and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.

30And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye
shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.

31Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good,
and [shall lothe yourselves] in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.

38As the holy flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts;
so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I am the Lord.



And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another,
and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.

Without becoming Circumcised in the flesh of their foreskin, nobody was allowed to participate in the Passover or enter the Temple.

43 And the Lord said to Moses and Aaron, “This is the ordinance of the Passover: No foreigner shall eat it. 44 But every man’s servant who is bought for money, when you have circumcised him, then he may eat it. 45 A sojourner and a hired servant shall not eat it. 46 In one house it shall be eaten; you shall not carry any of the flesh outside the house, nor shall you break one of its bones. 47 All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. 48 And when a stranger dwells with youand wants to keep the Passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as a native of the land. For no uncircumcised person shall eat it. 49 One law shall be for the native-born and for the stranger who dwells among you.” Exodus 12:43-49



Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. Galatians 5:2


The law of commandments contained in ordinances, the law of Moses, which required physical circumcision, creating a division between the Jew and the Gentile has been abolished in His flesh.

14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. Ephesians 2:14-16


JPT
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
689
113
#8
Re: Torah observer claim examined: "Law of Moses" is the Oral Law in Acts 15

Without becoming Circumcised in the flesh of their foreskin, nobody was allowed to participate in the Passover or enter the Temple.

43 And the Lord said to Moses and Aaron, “This is the ordinance of the Passover: No foreigner shall eat it. 44 But every man’s servant who is bought for money, when you have circumcised him, then he may eat it. 45 A sojourner and a hired servant shall not eat it. 46 In one house it shall be eaten; you shall not carry any of the flesh outside the house, nor shall you break one of its bones. 47 All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. 48 And when a stranger dwells with youand wants to keep the Passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as a native of the land. For no uncircumcised person shall eat it. 49 One law shall be for the native-born and for the stranger who dwells among you.” Exodus 12:43-49



Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. Galatians 5:2


The law of commandments contained in ordinances, the law of Moses, which required physical circumcision, creating a division between the Jew and the Gentile has been abolished in His flesh.

14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. Ephesians 2:14-16


JPT
Those who insisted on following the economy of the law, Paul called the concision.

Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. Philippians 3:2-3