Are we saved with a "dead" faith?

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Babylonisfalling

Guest
All that statement means is that faith without trusting God for what he has promised is a dead or inactive dormant faith. We are are justified by faith through the promise of the cross. We believe God as did Abraham and we act on what we believe because faithful is He who has promised. The work of faith is that we continue to believe God against everything and to not charge God foolishly, whom we have Job as well as Abraham as examples.
Wrong....belief does not equal works.
 
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BradC

Guest
You don't trust that believing God's promise is a work of faith? Abraham was given a promise and he believed God and when he was 99 years old God fulfilled the promise. When God asked him to sacrifice Isaac, Abraham believed that God would raise him from the dead Heb 11:19. Abraham was justified because he believed God's promise all the way through because he believed and charged God as faithful. Abraham was justified by a faith that trusted the promise of God which included the sacrifice of Isaac.
 
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Babylonisfalling

Guest
Faith/Belief does not equal works.
Abraham was justified through belief but that belief was not a work.
Work involves the doing of something based on your faith.
If you want to use Abraham/Isaac, the work is in preparing the sacrifice of the his, the journey to the mountain, the binding of Isaac, etc.
Faith turning into actual works.
 
B

BradC

Guest
Believing God by faith is something we do and because we beloved it is a work of faith. When I do not think evil of you and I believe and hope all things on your behalf, that is a work of love. When we believe God it is accounted unto us for righteousness. God considers out faith as a work of righteousness. Trusting God can never be considered anything else other than a work of faith.
 
Oct 31, 2015
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588
113
Faith/Belief does not equal works.
Abraham was justified through belief but that belief was not a work.
Work involves the doing of something based on your faith.
If you want to use Abraham/Isaac, the work is in preparing the sacrifice of the his, the journey to the mountain, the binding of Isaac, etc.
Faith turning into actual works.

The work of faith is obedience.

Faith without the corresponding act or work of obedience is dead.

Abraham was justified by his obedience, when he did the work of obeying God, and left his fathers house and set out to a land not knowing where he was going.

Abraham obeyed in reponse to God speaking to him.

When God spoke to him, he now had faith.

If Abraham did not obey what God told him to do, then Abraham would not receive the promise.

His faith would have been dead, and would have produced nothing, just as a dead person without their spirit can produce nothing.

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:26


Now the Lord had said to Abram:
“Get out of your country,
From your family
And from your father’s house,
To a land that I will show you.
I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.
I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”
Genesis 12:1-3


Without Abraham acting in obedience to God's Voice, there will not be:

A great nation.
Blessing.
Name great
in you all the families of the earth are blessed [a reference to the Messiah].


This was foreshadowing the Gospel.

And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” Galatians 3:8


Abraham responded to the "Gospel" with the obedience of faith, by turning from his old life and following the Lord, leaving an example for us who would come after him.


Faith without this work of obedience is dead.


Likewise those who hear the Gospel command Repent, and do not turn to God, by turning from Satan as their lord, and confess Jesus as Lord, are disobedient to the Gospel.


Jesus commissioned Paul to do this very thing -


16 But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. 17 I will deliver you from the Jewishpeople, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now[a] send you, 18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’ Acts 26:16-18


The way a person receives the forgiveness of sins is to Repent.

Repent means to turn to God, and by default turn away from Satan and his kingdom. If you are not in the kingdom of God, you are in the kingdom of darkness.


[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] [/FONT]But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26

justpassinthrough
 
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Babylonisfalling

Guest
Believing God by faith is something we do and because we beloved it is a work of faith. When I do not think evil of you and I believe and hope all things on your behalf, that is a work of love. When we believe God it is accounted unto us for righteousness. God considers out faith as a work of righteousness. Trusting God can never be considered anything else other than a work of faith.
Trusting God is not a work of faith.
Doing something because of your trust in God would be a work of faith.
 
B

BradC

Guest
Trusting God is not a work of faith.
Doing something because of your trust in God would be a work of faith.
Because I trust God and because of grace, here are some 'Doing Somethings'...

- I walk by faith and not by sight (is not walking a work of the believer)
- I am to mind not high things ((Rom 12:16) Is not this a work of the mind?

Example: 2 Cor 3:10-7
3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds.
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.
7 Do ye look on things after the outward appearance?

- I don't judge or condemn others
- I don't listen to slander or malignity
- I am gracious to others and give them hope through the promises of God
- I think evil of no man (that is a great work that should be practiced more and more)
- I love my neighbor as myself
- When adversity strikes, though is slay me, yet I learn to trust God in all things (this is a great work)
- I lay my life down for my friends and do not count my life dear to myself
- I am lead by the Spirit and learn patience and longsuffering (fruit)

James 1:2-8

2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering.For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
11,724
6,317
113
Because I trust God and because of grace, here are some 'Doing Somethings'...

- I walk by faith and not by sight (is not walking a work of the believer)
- I am to mind not high things ((Rom 12:16) Is not this a work of the mind?

Example: 2 Cor 3:10-7
3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds.
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.
7 Do ye look on things after the outward appearance?

- I don't judge or condemn others
- I don't listen to slander or malignity
- I am gracious to others and give them hope through the promises of God
- I think evil of no man (that is a great work that should be practiced more and more)
- I love my neighbor as myself
- When adversity strikes, though is slay me, yet I learn to trust God in all things (this is a great work)
- I lay my life down for my friends and do not count my life dear to myself
- I am lead by the Spirit and learn patience and longsuffering (fruit)

James 1:2-8

2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering.For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
very sound theology. let's see how the legalists try to tear it apart, since that what they do to anything that does not match their thoughts. because that is all they are. thoughts. not sound Biblical truth, as you posted.
 
B

BradC

Guest
The work of faith is obedience.

Faith without the corresponding act or work of obedience is dead.

Abraham was justified by his obedience, when he did the work of obeying God, and left his fathers house and set out to a land not knowing where he was going.

Abraham obeyed in reponse to God speaking to him.

When God spoke to him, he now had faith.

If Abraham did not obey what God told him to do, then Abraham would not receive the promise.

His faith would have been dead, and would have produced nothing, just as a dead person without their spirit can produce nothing.

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:26


Now the Lord had said to Abram:
“Get out of your country,
From your family
And from your father’s house,
To a land that I will show you.
I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.
I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”
Genesis 12:1-3


Without Abraham acting in obedience to God's Voice, there will not be:

A great nation.
Blessing.
Name great
in you all the families of the earth are blessed [a reference to the Messiah].


This was foreshadowing the Gospel.

And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” Galatians 3:8


Abraham responded to the "Gospel" with the obedience of faith, by turning from his old life and following the Lord, leaving an example for us who would come after him.


Faith without this work of obedience is dead.


Likewise those who hear the Gospel command Repent, and do not turn to God, by turning from Satan as their lord, and confess Jesus as Lord, are disobedient to the Gospel.


Jesus commissioned Paul to do this very thing -


16 But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. 17 I will deliver you from the Jewishpeople, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now[a] send you, 18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’ Acts 26:16-18


The way a person receives the forgiveness of sins is to Repent.

Repent means to turn to God, and by default turn away from Satan and his kingdom. If you are not in the kingdom of God, you are in the kingdom of darkness.


But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26justpassinthrough
The way a person receives forgiveness of sins is by faith through the blood of Christ. We receive grace and in the power of that grace God turns us, we do not turn ourselves. To repent and believe the gospel, we receive and turn from what we believed and trusted in and we put our faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ and him crucified. It is the light of the glorious gospel that we hear in our ear that turns us from who we are in Adam unto Christ, the second Adam. Through him we have redemption, justification, sanctification, wisdom and our righteousness. Our obedience is to the gospel and that is the obedience of faith whereby we trust in the cross of Christ for our salvation and forgiveness of all sin.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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168
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Is not James talking about the internal world and the external world?

Faith is what you hold inside, how you look at cause and effect, the model you use to say where you are going, and why.
Works is about how you interact with the outside world, in words and deeds.

So he is linking the actions that flow from the world view, need to be there to claim the world view is actually working and is alive. This is to counter religion, the good luck charm, or spinning the prayer wheel means things will change, but the individual does not have to change. So people will say "I am a christian," yet nothing that would distinguish them from anyone other normal cultural person is present.

Like every community there are people who want to join the group, because they are nice, not because anything makes sense. I remember an answer to a question like "What is the trinity?" The answer was just believe it, so no answer at all.
But that is how religion is often approached, but the apostles were keen to show Jesus and following him were very different.
 
B

Babylonisfalling

Guest
Because I trust God and because of grace, here are some 'Doing Somethings'...

- I walk by faith and not by sight (is not walking a work of the believer)
- I am to mind not high things ((Rom 12:16) Is not this a work of the mind?

Example: 2 Cor 3:10-7
3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds.
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.
7 Do ye look on things after the outward appearance?

- I don't judge or condemn others
- I don't listen to slander or malignity
- I am gracious to others and give them hope through the promises of God
- I think evil of no man (that is a great work that should be practiced more and more)
- I love my neighbor as myself
- When adversity strikes, though is slay me, yet I learn to trust God in all things (this is a great work)
- I lay my life down for my friends and do not count my life dear to myself
- I am lead by the Spirit and learn patience and longsuffering (fruit)

James 1:2-8

2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering.For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
Those are not works.
 
B

Babylonisfalling

Guest
The way a person receives forgiveness of sins is by faith through the blood of Christ. We receive grace and in the power of that grace God turns us, we do not turn ourselves. To repent and believe the gospel, we receive and turn from what we believed and trusted in and we put our faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ and him crucified. It is the light of the glorious gospel that we hear in our ear that turns us from who we are in Adam unto Christ, the second Adam. Through him we have redemption, justification, sanctification, wisdom and our righteousness. Our obedience is to the gospel and that is the obedience of faith whereby we trust in the cross of Christ for our salvation and forgiveness of all sin.
Do they receive forgiveness through a dead faith?
 
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Babylonisfalling

Guest
Mark 9:24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
That does not mean people receive forgiveness through a dead faith
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
11,724
6,317
113
we are saved BY grace THROUGH faith FOR good works. faith does not save. grace does. get it in the right order.
 
Dec 9, 2011
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Ephesians 2:8
king James version(KJV)

8.)For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
+++
We have access to this grace through faith.
 
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Babylonisfalling

Guest
we are saved BY grace THROUGH faith FOR good works. faith does not save. grace does. get it in the right order.
Are we saved THROUGH a dead faith?
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
11,724
6,317
113
are we saved without grace???
 
B

Babylonisfalling

Guest
No, we are not.
There, I answered your question first even though you ignored mine.
Can you answer now?
 

Yet

Banned
Jan 4, 2014
3,756
69
0
Are we saved with a dead faith?? If you'd walk into the average church you'd think so.