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E
Yeah he was.
He was speaking about a faith that was claimed, yet did not exist.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?
He is talking about people who claim to have faith, He never said they actually had any faith.
So again I ask. Think about what your saying, what does "dead" mean?
E
Well you have the order wrong. without faith at all, you will have no works all you have is mere belief. (even demons believe and tremble) That is the point James was making.
Faith is the context. not works. If you make works the context. like so many want to. You misinterpret the point James was trying to make, and make James contradict paul.
H
And a dead faith can Not save. God saves us by giving to us a real, alive faith that has works, which will be good by following the moral laws of God.! our faith before salvation by God is a dead faith, which can not save us. But, faith is a principle which is used by all of us in our daily lives. we trust others, but we are not stupid ,to turn our backs on one who will kill us. it must be an informed, alive, faith or we soon die.
The dying thief had faith and no works, but his faith was a living faith.
You are looking at things the wrong way round. The point is that if you have true faith, works will result (Eph 2.8-10). Faith will result in works, but those works are not a necessary part of that faith. They are a resultant. True faith in Christ results in being saved. Being saved will then result in works.
You are looking at things the wrong way round. The point is that if you have true faith, works will result (Eph 2.8-10). Faith will result in works, but those works are not a necessary part of that faith. They are a resultant. True faith in Christ results in being saved. Being saved will then result in works.
B
You can have works without faith. They would not be faith based works, nor Christian works obviously but they can still be called works, or good works.
[/QUOTE]Faith is the context. not works. If you make works the context. like so many want to. You misinterpret the point James was trying to make, and make James contradict paul. [/QUOTE]
Faith begets works and James does not contradict Paul. And the context is that without works faith is dead. If you want to substitute nonexistent for dead, that's fine.
He did have works: his profession of faith.
If you confess with your mouth “Lord Jesus” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation. For the scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” Romans 10:9-11
But the other [thief] answered [and] rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, because you are undergoing the same condemnation? And we indeed justly, for we are receiving what we deserve [for] what we have done. But this man has done nothing wrong!” And he said, “Jesus [name], remember me when you come into your kingdom [Lord]” Luke 23:40-42
If you confess with your mouth “Lord Jesus” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation. For the scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” Romans 10:9-11
But the other [thief] answered [and] rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, because you are undergoing the same condemnation? And we indeed justly, for we are receiving what we deserve [for] what we have done. But this man has done nothing wrong!” And he said, “Jesus [name], remember me when you come into your kingdom [Lord]” Luke 23:40-42
B
That's the best argument out there for faith without works. I've argued that I guy on his deathbed who passes 10 seconds after getting saved with zero works is still saved but I never thought of the thief on the cross.
Had the thief survived, he would have carried out works, or his faith would have been dead, or nonexistent according to another poster.
And I know faith come first. I do believe that once the faith to works cycle is started, that works will aid in greater faith.
faith to works to faith to works to faith to works and so on
Had the thief survived, he would have carried out works, or his faith would have been dead, or nonexistent according to another poster.
And I know faith come first. I do believe that once the faith to works cycle is started, that works will aid in greater faith.
faith to works to faith to works to faith to works and so on
But you must recognise that saving faith is once for all. It is an initial putting of a trust in Christ for eternal salvation. It does not need to be repeated. If genuine it is lifelong. The faith that grows is a different kind of faith. It is a faith in Christ for other things than initial salvation. It is proof of growing dependence on Christ in daily life. It is important to distinguish the two otherwise we get doctrinal confusion.
Hello Babylonisfalling
Let me try an explain what James is talking about by discribing it by comparison.
IE
You are sitting down In a building and someone comes In and starts screaming "THE BUILDING IS ON FIRE" If you really believed It would you just sit there chillin if you really believed It OR would your body go into action and move because you believed?
Let me try an explain what James is talking about by discribing it by comparison.
IE
You are sitting down In a building and someone comes In and starts screaming "THE BUILDING IS ON FIRE" If you really believed It would you just sit there chillin if you really believed It OR would your body go into action and move because you believed?
E
If your saying we are saved by anything other than faith alone, and caiming James said so. then yes you are forcing James to contradict paul.
paul said we are saved by faith alone (no works whatsoever) and that those who have true faith will work.
James said if we do not have the works Paul said EVERYONE who has a living faith has, then he is a liar. and his faith is non existent.
paul said we are saved by faith alone (no works whatsoever) and that those who have true faith will work.
James said if we do not have the works Paul said EVERYONE who has a living faith has, then he is a liar. and his faith is non existent.