Jesus - Compassionate, or Angry?

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S

Siberian_Khatru

Guest
#1
#1
No, I'm not trolling here (I realize I frequent that pastime, but this is not one of those times).

I came across some literature that was expounding on Greek manuscripts v.s modern translation, and the interpretation from the manuscripts suggested that Jesus was perhaps more of a "powerful figure with a strong will and agenda of his own, a charismatic authority who didn't like to be disturbed." I'm not sure about that, but the book speaks of how the gospel of Mark makes mention of Jesus' anger/annoyance more than once, while Matthew and Luke - written after Mark (and using it for their own accounts) - in the same instances, refrain from any mention of it.

The first example given is Mark 1:41 - "Moved with compassion, Jesus stretched out His hand and touched him, and said to him, "I am willing; be cleansed." (NASB)

Most translations refer to Jesus feeling compassion or pity; the NIV uses the word "indignant."

Supposedly, the original translation was actually the word anger: "And becoming angry, reaching out his hand, he touched him and said, "I am willing, be clean." This is followed by Jesus rebuking, then casting out, the leper that asked for healing.

So I wanted to ask: How do you perceive Jesus? Compassionate, albeit authoritative? Indignant? Have you ever taken any instances involving his instruction or performing miracles as "angry?"
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#2
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,188
113
#2
I think you have the story twisted a little. I don't see rebuke and casting out. I see the Lord sending him to the priests to be verified that he was clean.

I think compassion is a better translation than anger.

Has the Lord ever cleansed you? How would you describe it?

I would describe it as focused love. Unwilling to accept excuses or to back down. A strong kind of love... But not angry...
 
D

dalconn

Guest
#3
#3
How do I perceive Jesus?...as perfect!
 
B

biblicalsandy

Guest
#4
#4
I believe when he went into the temple to cleanse it, he was angry, but had compassion..not to those in the temple (though he must have shown mercy), but for G-d. It saddened him to see what they did to the temple. I have seen some that react in the same manner, when seeing the churches of today, but in verbal anguish to others.
 
P

psalm6819

Guest
#5
#5
Jesus would never be angry at someone asking for help; especially not a pitiful leper.

I'd ditch the NIV if that's what it says.

He is gentle and humble but in no way weak.

He had time for the children.

His "agenda" was knowing He would give His life for us.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#6
#6
The NIV is such a horrible translation in so many ways.... the word basically means to do be moved with emotion.

Why the NIV would assume that emotion as anger...is just really odd?
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#7
#7
This is something you will notice about Christ (the express image of God) and something the Lord spoke to me personally years ago as I dealt with others .... God gives grace to the humble and resist the proud... Anytime you see the Lord in scripture, you will see this truth at work.
 
seoulsearch

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
#8
May 23, 2009
14,943
4,584
113
#8
Siberian_Khatru said:
No, I'm not trolling here (I realize I frequent that pastime, but this is not one of those times).

I came across some literature that was expounding on Greek manuscripts v.s modern translation, and the interpretation from the manuscripts suggested that Jesus was perhaps more of a "powerful figure with a strong will and agenda of his own, a charismatic authority who didn't like to be disturbed." I'm not sure about that, but the book speaks of how the gospel of Mark makes mention of Jesus' anger/annoyance more than once, while Matthew and Luke - written after Mark (and using it for their own accounts) - in the same instances, refrain from any mention of it.

The first example given is Mark 1:41 - "Moved with compassion, Jesus stretched out His hand and touched him, and said to him, "I am willing; be cleansed." (NASB)

Most translations refer to Jesus feeling compassion or pity; the NIV uses the word "indignant."

Supposedly, the original translation was actually the word anger: "And becoming angry, reaching out his hand, he touched him and said, "I am willing, be clean." This is followed by Jesus rebuking, then casting out, the leper that asked for healing.

So I wanted to ask: How do you perceive Jesus? Compassionate, albeit authoritative? Indignant? Have you ever taken any instances involving his instruction or performing miracles as "angry?"
Click to expand...
There are several instances in the Bible where Jesus is upset ("angry", if you will) about the injustices of this world such as sickness, death, and pride (Mark 3:5 -- "And Jesus looked around them in anger, deeply troubled by their hardness of heart.")

This is just a personal interpretation, but I honestly see Jesus as being a bit of everything--the full range of emotions--because after all, we are made in the image of God, and God is the original source (and holder) of any and every emotion that exists.

I believe Jesus can be feeling a bit of everything in these types of situations as well. If He's angry, He might be angry at the sin, demonic oppression, or stubborn attitudes that's causing the problems, but I believe He has compassion on those who suffer because of these things.

However, I also believe that Jesus holds us responsible for what He teaches and expects of us--if we willfully disobey, He might decide to heal us or fix the situation out of compassion--but like any exasperated parent, I believe He does become angry with us for not listening when we know better, especially if it's a repeated offense. (Matthew 1:17 -- "O unbelieving and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you and suffer you?")
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#9
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
3,650
113
#9
To the self righteous and critical He was in rebuke mode.

To the broken and outcast He was compassionate and merciful.
 
S

Siberian_Khatru

Guest
#10
#10
To clarify, I am not leaning on the NIV exclusively. My mentioning it was because it's use of the word "indignant" appears to be the closest I've come to what said Greek manuscripts depict ("anger").

Grandpa said:
I think you have the story twisted a little. I don't see rebuke and casting out. I see the Lord sending him to the priests to be verified that he was clean.

I think compassion is a better translation than anger.
Click to expand...
Apparently Matthew and Luke thought so too. Their accounts are supposedly taken from Mark's gospel, with Mark's being written first, yet Mark uses the Greek word for "anger." Why it's not found in the other gospels, I'm not really sure. The translation reflecting Jesus' supposed anger is also the one that reflects him "rebuking" the leper; I notice a lot of modern translations of Mark don't word it the same way, so I will need to study up on it a little more.

I appreciate your post! (Please bear in mind that my OP is not my own two cents; I'm not trying to twist anything.)

Mitspa said:
This is something you will notice about Christ (the express image of God) and something the Lord spoke to me personally years ago as I dealt with others .... God gives grace to the humble and resist the proud... Anytime you see the Lord in scripture, you will see this truth at work.
Click to expand...
Thanks for that, Mitspa. Not to seem contentious, but would you include yourself in that statement? Job? Or Jesus, even, considering the fate he was dealt?

I realize some of what I post might seem counter intuitive, but I am honestly not trying to start a bunch of junk. There are people here I felt like I could really learn from, and so I wanted to take what I've read and get some insight from others.

All the best,
SK
 
J

james57

Banned
#11
Oct 21, 2015
2,420
12
0
#11
Siberian_Khatru said:
No, I'm not trolling here (I realize I frequent that pastime, but this is not one of those times).

I came across some literature that was expounding on Greek manuscripts v.s modern translation, and the interpretation from the manuscripts suggested that Jesus was perhaps more of a "powerful figure with a strong will and agenda of his own, a charismatic authority who didn't like to be disturbed." I'm not sure about that, but the book speaks of how the gospel of Mark makes mention of Jesus' anger/annoyance more than once, while Matthew and Luke - written after Mark (and using it for their own accounts) - in the same instances, refrain from any mention of it.

The first example given is Mark 1:41 - "Moved with compassion, Jesus stretched out His hand and touched him, and said to him, "I am willing; be cleansed." (NASB)

Most translations refer to Jesus feeling compassion or pity; the NIV uses the word "indignant."

Supposedly, the original translation was actually the word anger: "And becoming angry, reaching out his hand, he touched him and said, "I am willing, be clean." This is followed by Jesus rebuking, then casting out, the leper that asked for healing.

So I wanted to ask: How do you perceive Jesus? Compassionate, albeit authoritative? Indignant? Have you ever taken any instances involving his instruction or performing miracles as "angry?"
Click to expand...
Jesus was angry because he was compassionate. He was angry at the attitude of the Pharisees who had no concern for a man being healed, only rigidly wanting to follow the letter which cuts out the most important thing of all- love( luke11:42)
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#12
#12
Compassionate in His anger.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#13
#13
Siberian_Khatru said:
To clarify, I am not leaning on the NIV exclusively. My mentioning it was because it's use of the word "indignant" appears to be the closest I've come to what said Greek manuscripts depict ("anger").


Apparently Matthew and Luke thought so too. Their accounts are supposedly taken from Mark's gospel, with Mark's being written first, yet Mark uses the Greek word for "anger." Why it's not found in the other gospels, I'm not really sure. The translation reflecting Jesus' supposed anger is also the one that reflects him "rebuking" the leper; I notice a lot of modern translations of Mark don't word it the same way, so I will need to study up on it a little more.

I appreciate your post! (Please bear in mind that my OP is not my own two cents; I'm not trying to twist anything.)


Thanks for that, Mitspa. Not to seem contentious, but would you include yourself in that statement? Job? Or Jesus, even, considering the fate he was dealt?

I realize some of what I post might seem counter intuitive, but I am honestly not trying to start a bunch of junk. There are people here I felt like I could really learn from, and so I wanted to take what I've read and get some insight from others.

All the best,
SK
Click to expand...
Of course I include myself....:) The appearance of true humility can confuse some people, especially those in the religious class. It comes down to having no confidence in man (flesh and blood) and learning to have all boldness In God. We see humility in the Lord and great boldness..as in all the Apostles. We see Peter boasting in his own ability and then he denied the Lord...(he was humbled) Then when he was filled with Gods Spirit, he was so bold as to charge the Jews saying "you have denied the Holy One of Israel" ... The Jews im sure did not see him as "humble" but God did, because he no longer boasted in himself but in the Lord.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#14
#14
Siberian_Khatru said:
So I wanted to ask: How do you perceive Jesus? Compassionate, albeit authoritative? Indignant?
Click to expand...
I perceive Jesus as having the full range of emotions that all men have.
 
W

wwjd_kilden

Guest
#15
#15
Hmm, let's see.

First I found the definition of indignant just to be sure it means what I think it means:

feeling, characterized by, or expressing strong displeasure at something considered unjust, offensive, insulting, or base:

Now I don't know what the best translation is, as I don't know what the original said, nor was I there, but, as I was reading the NIV yesterday, this is how I interpret it:

Imagine if someone you care deeply for hurts himself and needs a trip to the hospital, and he says to you
"Well, I don't know if you are willing to take me to the hospital, but ..."
Wouldn't you at least be surprised? Maybe hurt or even annoyed that they didn't trust you to want to help them?

Maybe indignant is a very strong word to use. Then again (sorry, my only source for this is my pastor:) Apparently the jewish culture, at least in biblical times, were used to exaggerate to get a point across.
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#16
Sep 4, 2013
30,186
6,530
113
#16
I have a huge problem with this portion of the OP:

QUOTE:

I came across some literature that was expounding on Greek manuscripts v.s modern translation, and the interpretation from the manuscripts suggested that Jesus was perhaps more of a "powerful figure with a strong will and agenda of his own,

END QUOTE:

Jesus Himself stated He came to DO THE WILL OF HIS FATHER. Jesus did not have an "agenda" with regards to what that term implies. Jesus was/is all things as is God the Father.......and this includes angry when called for, assertive when called for, compassionate when called for, tender, kind and loving when called for..........

Any writer who would say that Jesus had an agenda of His own is not worthy of reading in my opinion.
 
S

Siela01

Senior Member
#17
Sep 23, 2015
619
14
0
#17
Jesus is the best person.. Him love and save us why u ask that?:)
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#18
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#18
I think that, as always, we will find (make?) the God/Jesus we worship in our hearts.... be that a loving brother, or a vengeful monster.
 
S

Siberian_Khatru

Guest
#19
#19
p_rehbein said:
Any writer who would say that Jesus had an agenda of His own is not worthy of reading in my opinion.
Click to expand...
The text begged the question more than it affirmed anything, but I can empathize with where you're coming from. Thanks P. :)

Willie-T said:
I think that, as always, we will find (make?) the God/Jesus we worship in our hearts.... be that a loving brother, or a vengeful monster.
Click to expand...
Too true. What's the saying - "Perception is reality"?
 
P

psalm6819

Guest
#20
#20
You are a good guy SK, I didn't mean to sound snippy or anything toward you. I felt snippy toward the NIV :)
 
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