WOE TO THOSE WITH CHILD

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DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
3,325
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0
#1
Have you ever wondered how a pregnant woman in that time would suffer that "wrath" on those "days of vengeance"? Did you know our Lord Jesus was referring to an important parable with that warning of "woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days!"? How many preachers just quickly skip over this?

Luke 21:22-23

22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
KJV

Mark 13:17-20
17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.
19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom He hath chosen, He hath shortened the days.
KJV



Those "days of vengeance" is the time of God's cup of wrath poured out upon the wicked on the day of Christ's second coming (see Isaiah 61:2 with the last phrase, the place where our Lord Jesus stopped reading in Luke 4 from the Book of Isaiah, because that is about the event of His second coming).

In 2 Cor.11, Apostle Paul said he wanted to present us to Christ as "a chaste virgin". In Matt.25 and Rev.14, our Lord Jesus used the idea of virgins to represent His faithful.


The "woe to them that are with child..." is a warning against false worship of another instead of our Heavenly Father and His Son Jesus Christ. It is not about literal pregnant women in labor.

Isa 54:1
54:1 Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the LORD.
KJV


Isa 54:5
5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is His name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall He be called.
KJV



In that Isaiah 54:1 verse, notice it's the one that is "barren" that sings for joy. Why is that, for bearing a child is a blessing from The Lord for a woman. It's not about literal pregnancy at all. It's about spiritually being unchaste when our Lord Jesus returns, and He finds we have married another in His place, and we are found spiritually with child from another.

I reckon the reason why this important warning by our Lord is not taught very often because so many will get the wrong idea, thinking He meant it in the literal sense. No, it's a parable, an allegory, and He's using the example of a betrothed virgin being found unfaithful when He comes.

That is why the Isaiah 54:1 shows it's the "barren" woman without child that is singing in joy, because she stayed faithful, waiting on Him. By that faithfulness to Him, the barren desolate womb that did not travail with child is blessed in the long run, and will have more children (spiritually) in final when He comes.

Jesus also gave this as a warning to the women in Jerusalem that cried for Him when He was carrying His cross to be crucified:

Luke 23:27-30
27 And there followed Him a great company of people, and of women, which also bewailed and lamented Him.
28 But Jesus turning unto them said, "Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for Me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.
29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, 'Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.'
30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, 'Fall on us'; and to the hills, 'Cover us'."
KJV


Those in Jerusalem deceived for the tribulation will be in shame after He returns and they discover how they fell away to worship another in His place (i.e., the coming pseudo-Christ of Matt.24:23-26; 2 Thess.2:4).

Then those deceived will be saying about the barren who remained faithful to Him, "Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck." And in shame those un-barren found with child will wish for the mountains and hills to fall on them, and to cover them.

This is a parable He gave. It takes some explaining to reveal its meaning, which is what parables do, contain points that cannot be missed, using real life situations as allegory. This is another way our Heavenly Father and His Son warned us to stay faithful during the time of the "great tribulation" He taught, which is when the coming Antichrist will set himself up as God in place of our Lord Jesus (2 Thess.2:4 and Matt.24:23-26, and Rev.13:11 foward).
 
Last edited:
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
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#2
Boy, are you ever confused. You almost have me on the floor, laughing at such a foolish interpretation.
 

eternallife7

Senior Member
May 19, 2015
659
6
0
#3
It might have something to do with greed. I was visiting family at a hospital and there was a lady in labor with no insurance and they turned her away. Get this that was the second one that turned her away while in labor.
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
3,325
41
0
#4
Boy, are you ever confused. You almost have me on the floor, laughing at such a foolish interpretation.
I guarantee you, I'm not the one who is confused on those things.

I recognize that some brethren cannot understand when God's Word uses symbolic, metaphorical speech in order to seal a deeper meaning among His servants. So you are not laughing at me by mocking that chaste metaphor God put in His Word; you mocking Him and His Word.

2 Cor 11:2-4
2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.


3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.


4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
KJV
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
3,325
41
0
#5
It might have something to do with greed. I was visiting family at a hospital and there was a lady in labor with no insurance and they turned her away. Get this that was the second one that turned her away while in labor.
It has nothing to do with greed, nor literal pregnant women during the tribulation. It has to do with falling away to worship the coming pseudo-Christ in place of Jesus, instead of waiting on His second coming.

It has to do with deceivers who preach "another Jesus" and are of "another spirit" in false worship. That was the subject of Apostle Paul's warning in 2 Corinthians 11, as he warned about listening to those men and being deceived as Eve was by the serpent (the devil). Paul even showed how the devil's servants disguise themselves as "ministers of righteousness" and even Satan "as an angel of light".

2 Cor 11:13-15
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.


14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.


15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
KJV

I can imagine most preachers not wanting to cover Paul's warnings there, probably thinking deceived members might be thinking Paul was speaking of them as false "ministers of righteousness".

Apostle Paul was pulling that chaste virgin metaphor directly from OT Scripture like Isaiah 54, which I showed.

Just to show how duped some Christian brethren can be, are you aware that a lot of Churches use the name Bethaven in their title on the front lawn? That name is from two Hebrew words, beth which means 'house', and aven which means 'vanity', i.e., Beth-Aven or house of vanity! How could any Christian leader put that label on their place of gathering in Christ? It just goes to show how easily many brethren are duped by Satan's false ministers of righteousness.
 
B

Babylonisfalling

Guest
#6
Have you ever wondered how a pregnant woman in that time would suffer that "wrath" on those "days of vengeance"? Did you know our Lord Jesus was referring to an important parable with that warning of "woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days!"? How many preachers just quickly skip over this?

Luke 21:22-23

22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
KJV

Mark 13:17-20
17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.
19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom He hath chosen, He hath shortened the days.
KJV



Those "days of vengeance" is the time of God's cup of wrath poured out upon the wicked on the day of Christ's second coming (see Isaiah 61:2 with the last phrase, the place where our Lord Jesus stopped reading in Luke 4 from the Book of Isaiah, because that is about the event of His second coming).

In 2 Cor.11, Apostle Paul said he wanted to present us to Christ as "a chaste virgin". In Matt.25 and Rev.14, our Lord Jesus used the idea of virgins to represent His faithful.


The "woe to them that are with child..." is a warning against false worship of another instead of our Heavenly Father and His Son Jesus Christ. It is not about literal pregnant women in labor.

Isa 54:1
54:1 Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the LORD.
KJV


Isa 54:5
5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is His name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall He be called.
KJV



In that Isaiah 54:1 verse, notice it's the one that is "barren" that sings for joy. Why is that, for bearing a child is a blessing from The Lord for a woman. It's not about literal pregnancy at all. It's about spiritually being unchaste when our Lord Jesus returns, and He finds we have married another in His place, and we are found spiritually with child from another.

I reckon the reason why this important warning by our Lord is not taught very often because so many will get the wrong idea, thinking He meant it in the literal sense. No, it's a parable, an allegory, and He's using the example of a betrothed virgin being found unfaithful when He comes.

That is why the Isaiah 54:1 shows it's the "barren" woman without child that is singing in joy, because she stayed faithful, waiting on Him. By that faithfulness to Him, the barren desolate womb that did not travail with child is blessed in the long run, and will have more children (spiritually) in final when He comes.

Jesus also gave this as a warning to the women in Jerusalem that cried for Him when He was carrying His cross to be crucified:

Luke 23:27-30
27 And there followed Him a great company of people, and of women, which also bewailed and lamented Him.
28 But Jesus turning unto them said, "Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for Me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.
29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, 'Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.'
30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, 'Fall on us'; and to the hills, 'Cover us'."
KJV


Those in Jerusalem deceived for the tribulation will be in shame after He returns and they discover how they fell away to worship another in His place (i.e., the coming pseudo-Christ of Matt.24:23-26; 2 Thess.2:4).

Then those deceived will be saying about the barren who remained faithful to Him, "Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck." And in shame those un-barren found with child will wish for the mountains and hills to fall on them, and to cover them.

This is a parable He gave. It takes some explaining to reveal its meaning, which is what parables do, contain points that cannot be missed, using real life situations as allegory. This is another way our Heavenly Father and His Son warned us to stay faithful during the time of the "great tribulation" He taught, which is when the coming Antichrist will set himself up as God in place of our Lord Jesus (2 Thess.2:4 and Matt.24:23-26, and Rev.13:11 foward).
You're trying WAY to hard with that post
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
3,325
41
0
#7
You're trying WAY to hard with that post
Apparently, I was not trying hard enough, since some mocked the meaning of those things from God's Word. But I know those to whom it is for will understand it.
 

eternallife7

Senior Member
May 19, 2015
659
6
0
#8
It has nothing to do with greed, nor literal pregnant women during the tribulation. It has to do with falling away to worship the coming pseudo-Christ in place of Jesus, instead of waiting on His second coming.

It has to do with deceivers who preach "another Jesus" and are of "another spirit" in false worship. That was the subject of Apostle Paul's warning in 2 Corinthians 11, as he warned about listening to those men and being deceived as Eve was by the serpent (the devil). Paul even showed how the devil's servants disguise themselves as "ministers of righteousness" and even Satan "as an angel of light".

2 Cor 11:13-15
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.


14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.


15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
KJV

I can imagine most preachers not wanting to cover Paul's warnings there, probably thinking deceived members might be thinking Paul was speaking of them as false "ministers of righteousness".

Apostle Paul was pulling that chaste virgin metaphor directly from OT Scripture like Isaiah 54, which I showed.

Just to show how duped some Christian brethren can be, are you aware that a lot of Churches use the name Bethaven in their title on the front lawn? That name is from two Hebrew words, beth which means 'house', and aven which means 'vanity', i.e., Beth-Aven or house of vanity! How could any Christian leader put that label on their place of gathering in Christ? It just goes to show how easily many brethren are duped by Satan's false ministers of righteousness.
I agree with you about the church buildings being filled with false teachers, however I'm still thinking that this verse is talking about the sheer cruelty and selfishness that will be prevelant.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,162
2,380
113
#9
I agree with you about the church buildings being filled with false teachers, however I'm still thinking that this verse is talking about the sheer cruelty and selfishness that will be prevelant.
Hi Eternallife7,

It does indeed have to do with literal women who will be pregnant and nursing mothers during that time. For according to Mt.24:15, this is directly related to when the abomination is set up in the holy place which forces the desolation of Jerusalem. The event of the woman fleeing out into the wilderness in Rev.12:6,14 is synonymous with the same event, which takes place in the middle of that last seven years. After the sacrifices and offerings are ceased by the one who makes the covenant, She/Israel will flee out into the desert to that place that God will have prepared for her out of the dragons reach, where she will be taken care of for 1,260 days, also listed as a time, times and a half a time, both referring to that last 3 1/2 years with Jesus returning to the earth at the end of it. There is nothing in the context of the scripture that would require a symbolic meaning of this event as is being suggested.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,780
2,943
113
#10
Please OP, get a book on hermeneutics or Bible Interpetation. Even a simple book like "How to read the Bible for All Its Worth" by Gordon Fee would be incredibly helpful to you.

Your OP is twisted, mixed up and shows no knowledge of how to read the Bible and interpret it.

Like Willie, I was seriously almost ROFL. But then I decided that rather than mock you, I would encourage you to understand better how to interpret the Bible, so you would not come up with pulling multiple verses out of context to prove some whack a doodle theory you have!

Please look into hermeuntics. It would really make a huge difference to your Bible studies.
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
3,325
41
0
#11
Look at the Luke 21 example again folks:

Luke 21:22-23
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.


23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
KJV

And here Jesus explained it further later in Luke 23...

Luke 23:28-30
28 But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for Me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.


29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.


30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us.
KJV



The "days of vengeance" is about the events of the "day of the Lord", which is when our Lord Jesus comes to pour out His cup of wrath upon the wicked (events of Rev.19). He showed us that timing per Isaiah 61:1-2 with where He stopped reading Isaiah 61 in Luke 4.



Now what is really ignorant is to think that women that are not pregnant in that time are BLESSED over those that are! That's actually very silly. And that's the kind of thinking you guys are applying to those Scripture warnings our Lord Jesus gave.

The travail with child was an OT metaphor God first used in the OT prophets, and it was used in the spiritual sense. But I can see not that many here are familiar with the OT Books on that at all. What a shame.
 
B

Babylonisfalling

Guest
#12
Apparently, I was not trying hard enough, since some mocked the meaning of those things from God's Word. But I know those to whom it is for will understand it.
That's because your post was ridiculous and you are clueless as to the meaning of that verse.
Sorry to be so blunt.
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
3,325
41
0
#13
Please OP, get a book on hermeneutics or Bible Interpetation. Even a simple book like "How to read the Bible for All Its Worth" by Gordon Fee would be incredibly helpful to you.

Your OP is twisted, mixed up and shows no knowledge of how to read the Bible and interpret it.

Like Willie, I was seriously almost ROFL. But then I decided that rather than mock you, I would encourage you to understand better how to interpret the Bible, so you would not come up with pulling multiple verses out of context to prove some whack a doodle theory you have!

Please look into hermeuntics. It would really make a huge difference to your Bible studies.
Sorry, but based on your negative attitude towards other posts I've written, I've learned to not take you seriously, as you often don't have a clue as to what you're talking about, and jump to wrong conclusions too often. I say that in honesty, and not to belittle nor pump myself up.
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
3,325
41
0
#14
That's because your post was ridiculous and you are clueless as to the meaning of that verse.
Sorry to be so blunt.
Not bothering me one bit. I can understand when God's Word is giving us symbolic metaphors pointing to a deeper meaning. I recognize that even Christ's Apostles struggled with these type allegories He gave (Matt.16:5-12). So no mystery that most here also struggle with that.
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
3,325
41
0
#15
Here's the prophet Isaiah using the spiritual metaphor of being "with child" about the rebelliousness of God's people his day:

Isa 26:17-18
17 Like as a woman with child, that draweth near the time of her delivery, is in pain, and crieth out in her pangs; so have we been in thy sight, O LORD.


18 We have been with child, we have been in pain, we have as it were brought forth wind; we have not wrought any deliverance in the earth; neither have the inhabitants of the world fallen.
KJV

And yet another example, this time by the prophet Jeremiah:

Jer 30:5-7
5 For thus saith the LORD; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace.


6 Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?


7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.
KJV



A man travailing with child??? Since when do MEN travail with child? like a woman in labor?


1 Thess 5:2-3
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.


3 For when they shall say, "Peace and safety"; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
KJV

Whoah! You mean Apostle Paul used this metaphor of travailing as a woman with child?!? YES!

All you folks are doing is showing off your Biblical ignorance of this Biblical metaphor applied to the deceived in the last days, because that's who Apostle Paul was specifically saying that about at the end of this world just prior to that day of the Lord timing.
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
3,325
41
0
#16
By the way, how many here in this thread that speak against this travail with child metaphor God gave in His Word are believers on the Pre-Tribulational Rapture theory of men???
 

Dan58

Senior Member
Nov 13, 2013
1,991
338
83
#17
It's not about literal pregnancy at all. It's about spiritually being unchaste when our Lord Jesus returns, and He finds we have married another in His place, and we are found spiritually with child from another.

I reckon the reason why this important warning by our Lord is not taught very often because so many will get the wrong idea, thinking He meant it in the literal sense. No, it's a parable, an allegory, and He's using the example of a betrothed virgin being found unfaithful when He comes.
I agree, as an allegorical interpretation, it does suggest spiritual unfaithfulness.

Some here read it literally though, so assume it means that it would be tough for a pregnant woman or one nursing a baby to flee Jerusalem.
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
3,325
41
0
#18
I agree, as an allegorical interpretation, it does suggest spiritual unfaithfulness.

Some here read it literally though, so assume it means that it would be tough for a pregnant woman or one nursing a baby to flee Jerusalem.
I'm glad at least one here recognizes that metaphor which is given right in the middle of the signs of the great tribulation our Lord Jesus was warning His servants about for the end.

I know some here are angry at me for what I've spoken against the false Pre-trib Rapture theory that began in 1830's Britain by the Irvingite Church and John Darby. So most of what I say they are apt to ridicule.
 
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prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
400
83
63
#19
why is the Sabbath day mentioned in this verse?

Matthew 24:20 (KJV)


But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
400
83
63
#20
1And he began to speak unto them by parables.

--

3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple,
Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him [privately],

this was not a parable, he spoke to them plainly