I bet you can't explain this!

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Nov 19, 2012
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#21
And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate. (Rev. 18:19)

I'd like to challenge everyone who believes that Rome or Vatican City is the Harlot city of Revelation.

View attachment 140425

That passage has absolutely nothing to do with any particular earthly city.

In this regard, Revelation speaks of TWO cities...i.e. the city of man...and the city of God.

As the chapter informs us...this is Judgment Day for the wicked...the whole earth...

 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,704
3,649
113
#22
That passage has absolutely nothing to do with any particular earthly city.

In this regard, Revelation speaks of TWO cities...i.e. the city of man...and the city of God.

As the chapter informs us...this is Judgment Day for the wicked...the whole earth...

You been reading too much Augustine? :p
 
B

Brother_J_BELGIUM

Guest
#23
What's the challenge? What would this have to do with Rome and her pagan system?
Nothing! That's the whole point of this thread actually :p
 
B

Brother_J_BELGIUM

Guest
#24
That passage has absolutely nothing to do with any particular earthly city.

In this regard, Revelation speaks of TWO cities...i.e. the city of man...and the city of God.

As the chapter informs us...this is Judgment Day for the wicked...the whole earth...

Then why does the Bible say in Isaiah 13 that the Arab will no longer pitch tent there in Babylon? They still do to this very day...
 
Jan 27, 2013
4,769
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#25
babylon and babylonia can refer to iraq, if some would only look at an old map. etc
 
B

Brother_J_BELGIUM

Guest
#26
So your problem isn't with the text it's with your idea of how it would play out? I mean it's clearly symbolic, but I'm trying to understand what you're actually saying.
Well if it's symbolic then this question comes to mind... When Mecca is destroyed, many Muslims will see the destruction of that city and throw dust on their heads as a sign of grief, this is an Islamic/Middle Eastern practice. But when Rome or the Vatican would be destroyed, no one would cast dust on their heads. That's why I have a problem with the interpretation to that text that says Mystery Babylon is Vatican City.
 
B

Brother_J_BELGIUM

Guest
#27
babylon and babylonia can refer to iraq, if some would only look at an old map. etc
Yeah, that's true. It includes large parts of Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt and other countries as well (the Middle East).
 

Yet

Banned
Jan 4, 2014
3,756
69
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#28
Well, there's just no way to interpret that verse when people say the Vatican is Mystery Babylon.
You need to study this out. Down through the centuries the Vatican enjoyed relationships with kings and kingdoms getting rich and making rich, conquering lands and possessing the loot. A long history to study. Put some coffee on. Smile.
 
O

oldthennew

Guest
#29
we understand where you are coming from, but you must know that when people are in extreme
grief and shock and when divine intervention is in the mix, they may very well put-on
sack-cloth and roll in the ashes, or cast dust upon their heads, -

this is a personal witness: we usually do things that we would not ordinarily do when we are in
extreme-divine-judgmental-circumstances....
 

Yet

Banned
Jan 4, 2014
3,756
69
0
#30
babylon and babylonia can refer to iraq, if some would only look at an old map. etc
The whole world is spiritual Babylon. The god of this world has blinded the minds of them that believe not.
Even the true 'church' holds to the Babylonian doctrine of cleros/laitan division.
 
Jan 27, 2013
4,769
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#31
The whole world is spiritual Babylon. The god of this world has blinded the minds of them that believe not.
Even the true 'church' holds to the Babylonian doctrine of cleros/laitan division.
can you prove that. it dont say spiritual babylon. so are you speculating

how can every kingdom fall, in the art of war, there must be two fighting each other. so there must be a victory for one side.


fall in, mean conquered.
 
B

Brother_J_BELGIUM

Guest
#32
The whole world is spiritual Babylon. The god of this world has blinded the minds of them that believe not.
Even the true 'church' holds to the Babylonian doctrine of cleros/laitan division.
Are you referring to the Catholic feast Easter (Ishtar)?
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,162
2,380
113
#33
Nothing! That's the whole point of this thread actually :p
What I meant was, your pictures don't prove that Rome with her pagan system is not Mystery Babylon. I will stick with the proof of scripture myself:

* The seven heads are seven hills upon which the woman sits


Rome was literally built on and is famous for her seven hills. The Vatican with her pseudo Christian system is her headquarters.

* The woman you saw is that great city that rules over the kings of the earth.

At the time that John was receiving this information from the angel, Rome was that city that ruled over the kings of the earth. The people of whom it says are throwing dust on their heads are all of the worlds merchants, which does nothing to detract from the woman as being Rome and her pagan system.

* woman was dressed in purple and scarlet ....





Purple and scarlet are the exact colors of the RCC's liturgy, which God put into his word as another clue pointing us to who the woman, Mystery Babylon is.

She was glittering with Gold .....





Scripture states that the kings of the earth will commit adultery with the woman and the inhabitants of the earth will be intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries. Since it is obviously not speaking of literal adultery, then it would be figurative which is defined as " to be unfaithful to Christ, while posing as His true follower." By the RCC proclaiming to be the true church of Christ and at the same time engaging in the practices and rituals that stemmed from the Babylonian mystery religions, the RCC meets all of the criteria perfectly.

I personally believe that one of the future popes is going to play the part of the second beast, the false prophet. If you think that people are devoted to the papacy now, just wait until that future pope begins to perform miracles, signs and wonders, even causing fire to come down out of heaven in full view of the inhabitants of the earth. Once he begins to do this all the rest of the religious sects will be sucked into that last day religious system of Mystery Babylon. And since the false prophet will be performing those miraculous signs on behalf of the antichrist, he will deceive all of those devout followers into believe the claim that the first beast as being God. It will be one of Satan's greatest deceptions. The only ones who will not buy into this deception will be the woman/Israel who will be cared for out in the wilderness for that last 3 1/2 years and the great tribulation saints.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,162
2,380
113
#34
The whole world is spiritual Babylon. The god of this world has blinded the minds of them that believe not.
Even the true 'church' holds to the Babylonian doctrine of cleros/laitan division.
You can speak for yourself Yet, I live by scripture through the Holy Spirit and not by the teachings of men and I'm sure that there are many true believers who will claim the same. I don't like being lumped in with mainline Christianity, as though what they believe is what I believe. Furthermore, nothing of what I believe is aligned with Mystery Babylon/RCC
 
Jan 27, 2013
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#35
a tax system was introduced by who, and has been adopted by many countries. the calender is still runing by this system ,the new year, that starts in april. etc many counties are running in this system. etc
 
Dec 18, 2013
6,733
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#36
It's not Rome and it ain't Mecca.

Jerusalem

Jeremiah 4

1 If thou wilt return, O Israel, saith the Lord, return unto me: and if thou wilt put away thine abominations out of my sight, then shalt thou not remove.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And thou shalt swear, The Lord liveth, in truth, in judgment, and in righteousness; and the nations shall bless themselves in him, and in him shall they glory.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For thus saith the Lord to the men of Judah and Jerusalem, Break up your fallow ground, and sow not among thorns.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Circumcise yourselves to the Lord, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Declare ye in Judah, and publish in Jerusalem; and say, Blow ye the trumpet in the land: cry, gather together, and say, Assemble yourselves, and let us go into the defenced cities.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Set up the standard toward Zion: retire, stay not: for I will bring evil from the north, and a great destruction.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]The lion is come up from his thicket, and the destroyer of the Gentiles is on his way; he is gone forth from his place to make thy land desolate; and thy cities shall be laid waste, without an inhabitant.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For this gird you with sackcloth, lament and howl: for the fierce anger of the Lord is not turned back from us.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass at that day, saith the Lord, that the heart of the king shall perish, and the heart of the princes; and the priests shall be astonished, and the prophets shall wonder.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Then said I, Ah, Lord God! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people and Jerusalem, saying, Ye shall have peace; whereas the sword reacheth unto the soul.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]At that time shall it be said to this people and to Jerusalem, A dry wind of the high places in the wilderness toward the daughter of my people, not to fan, nor to cleanse,
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Even a full wind from those places shall come unto me: now also will I give sentence against them.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Behold, he shall come up as clouds, and his chariots shall be as a whirlwind: his horses are swifter than eagles. Woe unto us! for we are spoiled.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]O Jerusalem, wash thine heart from wickedness, that thou mayest be saved. How long shall thy vain thoughts lodge within thee?
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For a voice declareth from Dan, and publisheth affliction from mount Ephraim.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Make ye mention to the nations; behold, publish against Jerusalem, that watchers come from a far country, and give out their voice against the cities of Judah.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]As keepers of a field, are they against her round about; because she hath been rebellious against me, saith the Lord.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Thy way and thy doings have procured these things unto thee; this is thy wickedness, because it is bitter, because it reacheth unto thine heart.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]My bowels, my bowels! I am pained at my very heart; my heart maketh a noise in me; I cannot hold my peace, because thou hast heard, O my soul, the sound of the trumpet, the alarm of war.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Destruction upon destruction is cried; for the whole land is spoiled: suddenly are my tents spoiled, and my curtains in a moment.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]How long shall I see the standard, and hear the sound of the trumpet?
[SUP]22 [/SUP]For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by his fierce anger.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]For thus hath the Lord said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black; because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]The whole city shall flee for the noise of the horsemen and bowmen; they shall go into thickets, and climb up upon the rocks: every city shall be forsaken, and not a man dwell therein.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And when thou art spoiled, what wilt thou do? Though thou clothest thyself with crimson, though thou deckest thee with ornaments of gold, though thou rentest thy face with painting, in vain shalt thou make thyself fair; thy lovers will despise thee, they will seek thy life.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]For I have heard a voice as of a woman in travail, and the anguish as of her that bringeth forth her first child, the voice of the daughter of Zion, that bewaileth herself, that spreadeth her hands, saying, Woe is me now! for my soul is wearied because of murderers.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,162
2,380
113
#37
It's not Rome and it ain't Mecca.

Jerusalem

Jeremiah 4

1 If thou wilt return, O Israel, saith the Lord, return unto me: and if thou wilt put away thine abominations out of my sight, then shalt thou not remove.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And thou shalt swear, The Lord liveth, in truth, in judgment, and in righteousness; and the nations shall bless themselves in him, and in him shall they glory.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For thus saith the Lord to the men of Judah and Jerusalem, Break up your fallow ground, and sow not among thorns.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Circumcise yourselves to the Lord, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Declare ye in Judah, and publish in Jerusalem; and say, Blow ye the trumpet in the land: cry, gather together, and say, Assemble yourselves, and let us go into the defenced cities.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Set up the standard toward Zion: retire, stay not: for I will bring evil from the north, and a great destruction.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]The lion is come up from his thicket, and the destroyer of the Gentiles is on his way; he is gone forth from his place to make thy land desolate; and thy cities shall be laid waste, without an inhabitant.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For this gird you with sackcloth, lament and howl: for the fierce anger of the Lord is not turned back from us.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass at that day, saith the Lord, that the heart of the king shall perish, and the heart of the princes; and the priests shall be astonished, and the prophets shall wonder.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Then said I, Ah, Lord God! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people and Jerusalem, saying, Ye shall have peace; whereas the sword reacheth unto the soul.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]At that time shall it be said to this people and to Jerusalem, A dry wind of the high places in the wilderness toward the daughter of my people, not to fan, nor to cleanse,
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Even a full wind from those places shall come unto me: now also will I give sentence against them.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Behold, he shall come up as clouds, and his chariots shall be as a whirlwind: his horses are swifter than eagles. Woe unto us! for we are spoiled.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]O Jerusalem, wash thine heart from wickedness, that thou mayest be saved. How long shall thy vain thoughts lodge within thee?
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For a voice declareth from Dan, and publisheth affliction from mount Ephraim.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Make ye mention to the nations; behold, publish against Jerusalem, that watchers come from a far country, and give out their voice against the cities of Judah.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]As keepers of a field, are they against her round about; because she hath been rebellious against me, saith the Lord.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Thy way and thy doings have procured these things unto thee; this is thy wickedness, because it is bitter, because it reacheth unto thine heart.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]My bowels, my bowels! I am pained at my very heart; my heart maketh a noise in me; I cannot hold my peace, because thou hast heard, O my soul, the sound of the trumpet, the alarm of war.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Destruction upon destruction is cried; for the whole land is spoiled: suddenly are my tents spoiled, and my curtains in a moment.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]How long shall I see the standard, and hear the sound of the trumpet?
[SUP]22 [/SUP]For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by his fierce anger.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]For thus hath the Lord said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black; because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]The whole city shall flee for the noise of the horsemen and bowmen; they shall go into thickets, and climb up upon the rocks: every city shall be forsaken, and not a man dwell therein.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And when thou art spoiled, what wilt thou do? Though thou clothest thyself with crimson, though thou deckest thee with ornaments of gold, though thou rentest thy face with painting, in vain shalt thou make thyself fair; thy lovers will despise thee, they will seek thy life.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]For I have heard a voice as of a woman in travail, and the anguish as of her that bringeth forth her first child, the voice of the daughter of Zion, that bewaileth herself, that spreadeth her hands, saying, Woe is me now! for my soul is wearied because of murderers.
Sorry but, Jerusalem doesn't fit any of the criteria found in Revelation 17 and 18. A definite killer for Israel not being Mystery Babylon is that, God has the beast and the ten kings destroy her some time after the middle of the seven years, which according to you would mean that Jerusalem and her people would be destroyed and that according to Rev.18:22-23 no one will ever inhabit that city again. That being said, when Satan is let out of the Abyss at the end of the thousand years, those people he gathers from the four corners of the earth will surround the camp of God's people, the city that he loves, which could only be Jerusalem, which would demonstrate that there will be people living in Jerusalem at the end of the thousand years and therefore Jerusalem could not be Mystery Babylon which is destroyed prior to that.

Jerusalem is also not know for being built on seven hills nor was it ever that city that ruled over the kings of the earth.
 

Reborn

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2014
4,087
216
63
#38
What if it's none of the above?
Out of curiosity, why do people take pieces from other puzzles ( life, history, RCC, Mecca, etc) and bend them in order to try to make them fit in the Bible?

The answer is in the Bible itself and it's a simple one.
Why wouldn't it be?

I'm pretty sure God doesn't expect us to play the guessing game......He just wants us to take the pieces He's already handed to us ( the books of the Bible) and complete the puzzle.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,162
2,380
113
#39
What if it's none of the above?
Out of curiosity, why do people take pieces from other puzzles ( life, history, RCC, Mecca, etc) and bend them in order to try to make them fit in the Bible?

The answer is in the Bible itself and it's a simple one.
Why wouldn't it be?

I'm pretty sure God doesn't expect us to play the guessing game......He just wants us to take the pieces He's already handed to us ( the books of the Bible) and complete the puzzle.
Hello Reborn,

Who Mystery Babylon, that city that ruled over the kings of the earth and who sits on seven hills is, can be deduced right from Revelation 17 & 18 and then by comparing the RCC to the details of scripture. It doesn't require going outside of Revelation to figure out who this woman is. See post #33
 
S

Sirk

Guest
#40
I'm pretty sure it's Roswell. Those little demons they shot down there were staking the place out. I'm sure of it.