Just a Thought.

[oldhermit]

James 2:14-20

14What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? 15If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, 16and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? 17Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself. 18But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” 19You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. 20But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

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Works that prove faith = having a merciful heart towards the brethren (and sistren).

We know that we have passed over from death to life because we love the brothers. The one who does not love remains in death. 1 John 3:14​

 

[Grace777x70]

Amen! True bible faith will always have corresponding works. Works on it's own does not prove faith is there as one can have works without faith but real faith does show itself in a corresponding action.

Many have said that James and Paul were in conflict when Paul said

Ephesians 2:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

In reality James and Paul complement one another!

 

[Budman]

Works have their place - as a means for spiritual growth and service - but have nothing to do with salvation; either before or after.

 

[oldhermit]

Works have their place - as a means for spiritual growth and service - but have nothing to do with salvation; either before or after.

What is the answer to James' question - "...if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?"

 

[Grace777x70]

I take that to mean..for example..If I hear that Christ died for me..I believe in what is said ( as the demons do ) but if I don't have a corresponding action to it..it will remain dead..so my "works" in this case would be I speak with my mouth..Jesus You are my Lord. This makes my faith "alive".

For with the heart man believes but with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Faith in action!

What is the answer to James' question - "...if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?"

 

[oldhermit]

I take that to mean..for example..If I hear that Christ died for me..I believe in what is said ( as the demons do ) but if I don't have a corresponding action to it..it will remain dead..so my "works" in this case would be I speak with my mouth..Jesus You are my Lord. This makes my faith "alive".

For with the heart man believes but with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Faith in action!

Yes, faith is an action. Faith can only be proven pragmatically and James goes on to use Abraham as an example of a pragmatic faith. If faith cannot be proven in one's conduct then it is of no value. It is worthless. That faith cannot save him. Remember, James is not speaking to non-Christians but to Christians.

 

[Grace777x70]

James wrote from a jewish perspective too....to the 12 tribes scattered abroad.

They always had in their synagogue Jews believing in Christ and your regular Jews ( which of course needed to believe in Jesus as their Messiah )

I agree that he wrote mostly to the Christians there.... for the non-believing Jew..I suppose their "Works" in that case would be to "confess" Jesus.

Good stuff!

Yes, faith is an action. Faith can only be proven pragmatically and James goes on to use Abraham as an example of a pragmatic faith. If faith cannot be proven in one's conduct then it is of no value. It is worthless. That faith cannot save him. Remember, James is not speaking to non-Christians but to Christians.

 

[oldhermit]

James wrote from a jewish perspective too....to the 12 tribes scattered abroad.

They always had in their synagogue Jews believing in Christ and your regular Jews ( which of course needed to believe in Jesus as their Messiah )

I agree that he wrote mostly to the Christians there.... for the non-believing Jew..I suppose their "Works" in that case would be to "confess" Jesus.

Good stuff!

No, this is more than a simple confession of Christ. James does not even mention this. James is not only confirming the importance of one's demonstration of faith with regard to helping the helpless but also in regard to one's obedience obedience. This is why he uses the example of Abraham. "You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected." It is only through obedience that faith is made perfect, other wise it is meaningless, both to the individual and to God.

 

[FreeNChrist]

What is the answer to James' question - "...if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?"

No. That would not be faith in the One who alone saves, Jesus Christ. Faith receives, and faith in Jesus Christ receives His activity. Living faith is living because it is alive with the activity of the living Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

 

[Budman]

What is the answer to James' question - "...if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?"

Yes. We are saved without works - just as Paul said. Our faith can be "dead" (unproductive) but works have no bearing on our salvation. They neither save us, nor keep us saved.

 

[oldhermit]

Yes. We are saved without works - just as Paul said. Our faith can be "dead" (unproductive) but works have no bearing on our salvation. They neither save us, nor keep us saved.

James is pretty clear in making this point. That kind of faith CANNOT save. The answer to the rhetorical question is NO!

 

[Grace777x70]

The thief on the cross had no "works" other then his confession of Christ.."Lord, remember me" ! Today you will be with Me!!..We have a great, loving Savior!!

No, this is more than a simple confession of Christ. James does not even mention this. James is not only confirming the importance of one's demonstration of faith with regard to helping the helpless but also in regard to one's obedience obedience. This is why he uses the example of Abraham. "You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected." It is only through obedience that faith is made perfect, other wise it is meaningless, both to the individual and to God.

 

[Budman]

James is pretty clear in making this point. That kind of faith CANNOT save. The answer to the rhetorical question is NO!

If works can save us in any way, then Jesus died for nothing.

 

[pottersclay]

As I read this post a verse came to me .....To give a answer to those that ask of the hope that is inside you.
Might be that the profession of christ and what he has shown and done for you is a kick start to a stronger faith but without that profession it's just a mental agreeance with no power .

 

[oldhermit]

The thief on the cross had no "works" other then his confession of Christ.."Lord, remember me" ! Today you will be with Me!!..We have a great, loving Savior!!

What does the thief on the cross have to do which anything James says in this text? Is James wrong because Jesus saved the thief while still under the old covenant?

 

[oldhermit]

If works can save us in any way, then Jesus died for nothing.

You are missing the point Budman. It is not the works that save, it is faith that is proven or perfected by works. James uses the example of Abraham to illustrate this very point.

 

[Grace777x70]

Faith for us believers is a positive response to what grace has already provided for us in Christ. That "positive response" can manifest itself in many ways. It will always have a corresponding action to it.

Abrahams "works" were the result of his faith. All these examples of Abraham and Rahab were a one time event that corresponded with what they believed.

No, this is more than a simple confession of Christ. James does not even mention this. James is not only confirming the importance of one's demonstration of faith with regard to helping the helpless but also in regard to one's obedience obedience. This is why he uses the example of Abraham. "You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected." It is only through obedience that faith is made perfect, other wise it is meaningless, both to the individual and to God.

 

[Grace777x70]

just in the context of faith and works I mention the thief..he had faith and he had a work..the faith that he had caused him to speak..Lord..and thus his faith was perfected by his work..just an example of "faith and a work" in operation together

What does the thief on the cross have to do which anything James says in this text? Is James wrong because Jesus saved the thief while still under the old covenant?

 

[Budman]

You are missing the point Budman. It is not the works that save, it is faith that is proven or perfected by works. James uses the example of Abraham to illustrate this very point.

I can agree with that.