Should you tell them to leave?

[aspen]

Mormons, JWs, Catholics.....should you tell them to leave their church and abandon their faith because of error in their doctrine?

Considerations

1. The vast majority of people from all three churches who are convinced by others that their churches are not Christian or are false, do not join other churches; instead they become life-long agnostics or atheists. The last thing these folks are going to do is get duped again and the very last thing they will do is join the church of the jerk who attacked their faith.

2. Faith and doctrine are separate - questioning a person's doctrine invites speculation; questioning a person's faith invites spiritual damage. People forgive and even become thankful for well communicated doctrinal correction, but not the destruction of their faith.

3. People with strong faith and incorrect doctrine are easily corrected in time; people with a broken spirit because of a wearing away of their God-given faith are devastated.

4. How responsible are we for a person's spiritual condition after we dismantle their understanding of doctrine and mar their faith by labeling it as faith in demonic forces?

5. Which is easier for Jesus to work with in the process of sanctification - a bitter heart or a misinformed brain?

These are important considerations to think about when we decide to expose out neighbor's doctrine and try to swap out his satanic faith for a REAL Christian faith.

Is there another option?

 

[ProudLibertarian]

I don't think you should tell anybody to leave their faith! But hey, that's just me.

 

[phil36]

Mormons, JWs, Catholics.....should you tell them to leave their church and abandon their faith because of error in their doctrine?

Considerations

1. The vast majority of people from all three churches who are convinced by others that their churches are not Christian or are false, do not join other churches; instead they become life-long agnostics or atheists. The last thing these folks are going to do is get duped again and the very last thing they will do is join the church of the jerk who attacked their faith.

2. Faith and doctrine are separate - questioning a person's doctrine invites speculation; questioning a person's faith invites spiritual damage. People forgive and even become thankful for well communicated doctrinal correction, but not the destruction of their faith.

3. People with strong faith and incorrect doctrine are easily corrected in time; people with a broken spirit because of a wearing away of their God-given faith are devastated.

4. How responsible are we for a person's spiritual condition after we dismantle their understanding of doctrine and mar their faith by labeling it as faith in demonic forces?

5. Which is easier for Jesus to work with in the process of sanctification - a bitter heart or a misinformed brain?

These are important considerations to think about when we decide to expose out neighbor's doctrine and try to swap out his satanic faith for a REAL Christian faith.

Is there another option?

I am not exactly too sure what you are trying to say aspen? and I disagree with your axiom of point 1. you are assuming, that Christians are going to 'ATTACK' them, I would strongly disagree with you.

I live in a small town and I would say there are more Mormons and JW's than actually Born again Christians. In fact 2 doors down from me is a very good friend who is a Mormon, and we have many discussions , we, go paintballing together regularly etc.. yet he is not 'ATTACKED'

To assume these guys become 'life long agnostics etc' to me is your own assumption and not really based on any facts at all.

And I totally and utterly disagree with your comment number 5. when you talk about sanctification in that manner you are assuming that these people are born again or have the light of Jesus already in them. this is a Falsehood aspen. (REMEMBER THE SANCTIFICATION PROCESS DOES NOT START TILL YOU ARE BORN AGAIN!)

To all who read my response, this may seem harsh, but on first read you may see in aspens post common sense and it may sound right.


but please read it slowly and carefully and think of what it is actually saying especially comment 5. words can be very deceptive.



anyhow, have a blessed day

Phil

 

[ProudLibertarian]

Phil, you live in the UK. You're probably the ONLY Christian in town.

 

[phil36]

Phil, you live in the UK. You're probably the ONLY Christian in town.

lol yes we do have a problem in the UK, it is a secular nation. and probably that is one of the reasons why I find standing for the truth of utmost importance.

I'm coming to live in the USA lol

Mind you I think there are more Christians in China?

Phil

Poor old UK lol

 

[QuestionTime]

King James Version (KJV)

Revelation 18:4-5

4And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

2 Corinthians 6:17-18

17Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.
18And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Romans 10:17

17So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

They can't be Sanctified if they don't hear the truth preached.

Quest

 

[phil36]

King James Version (KJV)

Revelation 18:4-5

4And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

2 Corinthians 6:17-18

17Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.
18And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Quest

Amen QT.


Phil

 

[ProudLibertarian]

lol yes we do have a problem in the UK, it is a secular nation. and probably that is one of the reasons why I find standing for the truth of utmost importance.

I'm coming to live in the USA lol

Mind you I think there are more Christians in China?

Phil

Poor old UK lol

I read somewhere that less than 5% of the UK's population attend services.

 

[aspen]

I am not exactly too sure what you are trying to say aspen? and I disagree with your axiom of point 1. you are assuming, that Christians are going to 'ATTACK' them, I would strongly disagree with you.

Actually, I was speaking from the other person's point of view - they feel attacked, whether they are attacked our not.

I live in a small town and I would say there are more Mormons and JW's than actually Born again Christians. In fact 2 doors down from me is a very good friend who is a Mormon, and we have many discussions , we, go paintballing together regularly etc.. yet he is not 'ATTACKED'

Great - you are doing exactly what you should be doing

To assume these guys become 'life long agnostics etc' to me is your own assumption and not really based on any facts at all.

No assumptions here - I have the numbers to prove it.

And I totally and utterly disagree with your comment number 5. when you talk about sanctification in that manner you are assuming that these people are born again or have the light of Jesus already in them. this is a Falsehood aspen. (REMEMBER THE SANCTIFICATION PROCESS DOES NOT START TILL YOU ARE BORN AGAIN!)

Umm....who said they have it already in them? I never said they were born with it. What I said is that Jesus has interacted with their hearts in a sanctifying manner, without their full understanding of doctrine. He has does the same for you and me, Phil - I am sure you would agree that neither of us have a full understanding of doctrine. Jesus is not impeded by our inadequate understanding. I am simply refusing to limit Jesus.

To all who read my response, this may seem harsh, but on first read you may see in aspens post common sense and it may sound right.

I think you all can discern truth for yourselves - thanks anyway Phil.


but please read it slowly and carefully and think of what it is actually saying especially comment 5. words can be very deceptive.

Please do. If it is profitable, use it - if not, disregard.

anyhow, have a blessed day

You too

Blessings!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[phil36]

I read somewhere that less than 5% of the UK's population attend services.

Yea it is low, I'm not totally sure of the count but it is not very High. sadly as nation we have turned from God. I think that figure is in mainline churchs like CoE and CoS, but apparently a lot of Evangelical churches are on the rise, showing compassion to their neighbourhoods and spreading the gospel.


Is America not in a similar position?

Phil

 

[phil36]

Quote aspen:

Umm....who said they have it already in them? I never said they were born with it. What I said is that Jesus has interacted with their hearts in a sanctifying manner, without their full understanding of doctrine. He has does the same for you and me, Phil - I am sure you would agree that neither of us have a full understanding of doctrine. Jesus is not impeded by our inadequate understanding. I am simply refusing to limit Jesus.

Well, aspen since you have said you are talking from the point of view of the other side, why would you make such a statement. and that is not wehat you said? please read your own post aspen especially point number 5!!

Yes I agree to the extent that God softens your heart so that you can excercise Faith, when you excercise your Faith, you are Justified, and Sanctifictaion is an ongoing work from that point, not before.

You have just stated you are not trying to Limit Jesus.. again please read your own Post,, especially point 5.

Maybe what you meant is not what you actually wrote?

I will look at this statement below more closely:

What I said is that Jesus has interacted with their hearts in a sanctifying manner, without their full understanding of doctrine

You are referring to Mormons and JW's as your post states.

Know, if they are being sanctified, you are nullifying the cross, and that, Jesus the son of God did not die for our sins. (JW's)

because if you can be sanctified by believing what you want then there is no need to be born again.

It did not work like that for me, I was born again, and from that point I am being Sanctified until Glorified.

THERE IS NO SANCTIFICATION WITH OUT BEING BORN OF THE SPIRIT.

phil

 

[aspen]

Quote aspen:

I will look at this statement below more closely:


You are referring to Mormons and JW's as your post states.

Know, if they are being sanctified, you are nullifying the cross

Oh know - I would never do that Phil. The reality of Jesus' death on the cross is not dependent on our belief. His death on the Cross for our sins is a reality whether we believe it or not.


, and that, Jesus the son of God did not die for our sins. (JW's)

Do you really think that Jesus' work is going to be limited by some faulty doctrine? Common! The NWT is about the silliest excuse for doctrine I have ever seen - Jesus chooses who He is going to sanctify, regardless of doctrine - doctrine does not save and it cannot ****, if Jesus sanctifies the heart.

because if you can be sanctified by believing what you want then there is no need to be born again.

Who would choose against the sanctification of Jesus through baptism if they had a full knowledge of it? I assume some will, but I doubt their hearts are humble enough for sanctification in any situation - but who knows? Jesus has accomplished all things.

It did not work like that for me, I was born again, and from that point I am being Sanctified until Glorified.

Cool. You are truly blessed.

THERE IS NO SANCTIFICATION WITH OUT BEING BORN OF THE SPIRIT.

INDEED!!!! But the Spirit chooses us, we do not choose Him

Heart change!!!!! Jesus works on the sanctification of the heart!!!!

No little Jesus prayer is going to solidify an ironclad contract with Jesus. God is dynamic and His moves where He will and chooses whom He chooses.

 

[QuestionTime]

Yea it is low, I'm not totally sure of the count but it is not very High. sadly as nation we have turned from God. I think that figure is in mainline churchs like CoE and CoS, but apparently a lot of Evangelical churches are on the rise, showing compassion to their neighbourhoods and spreading the gospel.


Is America not in a similar position?

Phil

Smith Wigglesworth's Rare 1947 Prophecy

TWO DISTINCT MOVES
During the next few decades there will be two distinct moves of the Holy Spirit across the church in Great Britain. The first move will affect every church that is open to receive it and will be characterized by a restoration of the baptism and gifts of the Holy Spirit. The second move of the Holy Spirit will result in people leaving historic churches and planting new churches. In the duration of each of these moves, the people who are involved will say 'This is the great revival'. But the Lord says 'No, neither is this the great revival but both are steps towards it.

WORD AND SPIRIT
When the new church phase is on the wane, there will be evidenced in the churches something that has not been seen before: a coming together of those with an emphasis on the Word and those with an emphasis on the Spirit.

When the Word and the Spirit come together, there will be the biggest movement of the Holy Spirit that the nation, and indeed the world, has ever seen. It will mark the beginning of a revival that will eclipse anything that has been witnessed within these shores, even the Wesleyan and the Welsh revivals of former years. The outpouring of God's Spirit will flow over from the UK to the mainland of Europe, and from there will begin a missionary move to the ends of the earth.

Quest

 

[phil36]

Heart change!!!!! Jesus works on the sanctification of the heart!!!!

No little Jesus prayer is going to solidify an ironclad contract with Jesus. God is dynamic and His moves where He will and chooses whom He chooses.

I never said a little Jesus prayer will save you. you going of in a tangent.

God is Dynamic, and the wind blows where it wishes you are totally corect.

And yes Jesus Sanctifies the heart of the believer, did you get that point aspen the believer???

He will sanctify those he has Justified in Christ.

But of course that was not what you originally said aspen. is a JW', Mormin born again? according to your statement Jesus will sanctify them? nonesense. he will bring them to a new birth, make them a new creation and it is this that is sanctification.

love

Phil

 

[phil36]

Hi, question time,

there is a revival at the moment, although what we call state churches are indecline, the Evangelical movement is on the increase in the UK.

Im not convinced there will be a world wide revival, there might be, but I think everything is head towards a one world religion or atleast it seems that way.

Phil

 

[aspen]

I never said a little Jesus prayer will save you. you going of in a tangent.

God is Dynamic, and the wind blows where it wishes you are totally corect.

And yes Jesus Sanctifies the heart of the believer, did you get that point aspen the believer???

He will sanctify those he has Justified in Christ.

But of course that was not what you originally said aspen. is a JW', Mormin born again? according to your statement Jesus will sanctify them? nonesense. he will bring them to a new birth, make them a new creation and it is this that is sanctification.

love

Phil

Well, I guess we will have to wait until Heaven. I believe we will all be surprised on the side of mercy

blessings

 

[phil36]

Well, I guess we will have to wait until Heaven. I believe we will all be surprised on the side of mercy

blessings

We will aspen, for we do not know all who are 'born again' for it is only those Born of the Spirit that will be there.

Love

Phil

 

[aspen]

and water

 

[phil36]

and water

I would assume that most who are Born again would what it is aspen

Love

Phil

 

[mpaper345]

You can correct people on some subjects of the Bible and they will not mind but when it comes to matters that they believe is essential to salvation and might be an insult to God they have a hard time changing that if it is not right doctrine.

Matt