Once Saved, Always Saved?

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PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#161
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#161
I like the analogy, and the story. This is obviously a continuing discussion of perspectives.

I would point to Jesus saying

Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.
Matt 11:29-30

With animals who had to pull carts you tied or yoked together the experienced ox with the one still learning.
The experienced one would obey the commands of the driver and do what it was told.

So Jesus is saying we are to learn by doing as he does, by knowing His example and reacting to life and its problems as He reacted. We are told to "learn from him". It is clear this is a discipline, obedience and example walk.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#162
#162
PeterJens said:
God nevers drives the car, he helps us drive the car. He shows us the way and the destination, we are in His hands over everything, though He has given us responsibility to find that way.
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Oh he don't? Then what foundation do we have? If we try to drive, we become the foundation, and move god out of the drivers seat.

Maybe your ok with that, But I am not I do not trust myself. And if you trust yourself. Then I pity you. because you have yet to find your true nature, and seen how evil it can be..



Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Matt 7:13-14
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Yet most religions of the world teach your self righteous, self imposed. Do work or else gospel..

And you think yours is the narrow Gate?

Yeah I do enter. By trusting Christ, thats the narrow Gate.

But hey, you want to be like the world, the only difference being you have the word "christ" in the name of your religion. SO be it.

Again, I do not trust myself. You should not either. Mankind has a hystory of trusting self. thats what got us in trouble to begin with.

We are doing the entering, and going down the road the leads to life. He is the good shepherd, the guide, the one we follow. We are the ones who have to follow, to do the doing, to learn how to be. The world around us is very much a product of people and their efforts, limited by the laws of nature and relationship.
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Um, No we just enter the gate, God takes us the rest of the way. But once you get in, your in..

The bible says God leads us as a schoolmaster to him. We do not go to the narrow gate aloe, we are led by the hands by God himself..

All we have to do is follow and not resist. WHy do you resist?

Jesus himself said he did the works the Father was doing

For the works that the Father has given me to finish—the very works that I am doing—testify that the Father has sent me.
John 5:36

Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father.
John 10:37
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Um, Jesus had the right and ability to do those works, He was perfect. Your not. Trying to compare yourself to Christ, and your ability to Jesus ability, is just crazy! I do not know how else to put it..
Now these works were not God doing the works alone, it was Jesus doing the works the Father had given Him to do.
The action is on the believer not just handing control over to God and letting go. That is not Gods model.
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You still do not get it.

You give yourself way to much credit. Your not Jesus, nor can you ever be Jesus, and you will never be COMPLETELY like he is until the ressurection (thats if you are resurrected at all)
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#163
#163
Grandpa said:
"Jesus take the wheel... take it from my hands..."

-Carrie Underwood
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Love it..

A person who realizes they are in danger asks the savior to take the wheel.

A person who does not realize he is in danger, tries to drive himself.

 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#164
#164
PeterJens said:
I like the analogy, and the story. This is obviously a continuing discussion of perspectives.

I would point to Jesus saying

Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.
Matt 11:29-30

With animals who had to pull carts you tied or yoked together the experienced ox with the one still learning.
The experienced one would obey the commands of the driver and do what it was told.

So Jesus is saying we are to learn by doing as he does, by knowing His example and reacting to life and its problems as He reacted. We are told to "learn from him". It is clear this is a discipline, obedience and example walk.
Click to expand...

Non of this matters if you do not trust Jesus to save you completely.

If you do not trust Jesus to save you, How can you trust anything else jesus says? All you have is lip service..
 
V

valiant

Senior Member
#165
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
63
#165
PeterJens said:
I like the analogy, and the story. This is obviously a continuing discussion of perspectives.

I would point to Jesus saying

Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.
Matt 11:29-30

With animals who had to pull carts you tied or yoked together the experienced ox with the one still learning.
The experienced one would obey the commands of the driver and do what it was told.

So Jesus is saying we are to learn by doing as he does, by knowing His example and reacting to life and its problems as He reacted. We are told to "learn from him". It is clear this is a discipline, obedience and example walk.
Click to expand...
so Jesus takes the yoke and we walk alongside him. seems pretty permanent to me. we are secure in Him,
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#166
#166
valiant said:
so Jesus takes the yoke and we walk alongside him. seems pretty permanent to me. we are secure in Him,
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Yep because he promises he will never to let go for any reason,,
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#167
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#167
eternally-gratefull said:

Non of this matters if you do not trust Jesus to save you completely.

If you do not trust Jesus to save you, How can you trust anything else jesus says? All you have is lip service..
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EG. You always want to add to faith something else. We are just called to believe and follow.
When Jesus says carry the cross daily, is He just saying "Let me carry the cross for you". No.

I have always wondered how people like yourself are so determined to deny action. You seem incapable of understanding I do what I do because I love Jesus and He saves me completely. The problem is you are trying to believe language can describe emotional and heart attitude things that are only shown by the Lord. Now I desire to reach people by meeting who they are in their hearts, not on the surface, or with their defences on display, or distrust. This is where Jesus meets me.

If you saw the cross, and Jesus hanging there, you would not use the words you have towards me.

The Lord taught me an important lesson. Intellectual assent is simple, but walking in love is hard. Even to acknowledge love was the key was a strange concept to me. If we all learn to walk in love, our theology will always change to confirm the reality of what has taken place.

This is why you hold so strongly to your stances because of your emotional experience, but this is not mine and I am not the person you think you are trying to put right. I do wonder why you persist. Can you not read what I am writing or know what it is to walk in the Spirit?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#168
#168
PeterJens said:
EG. You always want to add to faith something else. We are just called to believe and follow.
When Jesus says carry the cross daily, is He just saying "Let me carry the cross for you". No.
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Your the one adding something else my friend, Not me,,

Your adding works..

Why can;t you just trust God, and have faith he will do it..

I have always wondered how people like yourself are so determined to deny action. You seem incapable of understanding I do what I do because I love Jesus and He saves me completely.
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Maybe because when you talk, you sound more like a pharisee then Paul?

You praise your works instead of letting your works stand alone and glorify God.

I do not need to go around praising myself, Puffing myself up. Telling everyone how Good I am. for one, according to Gods standard. I am still not very good. For 2. It is not my power which causes me to be giid, it is me following Jesus, and usin ghis power. So I can;t boast anyway, it is not me.

If I do anything worth a reward. God will let me know on judgment day, Until then, God gets all the glory.

The problem is you are trying to believe language can describe emotional and heart attitude things that are only shown by the Lord. Now I desire to reach people by meeting who they are in their hearts, not on the surface, or with their defences on display, or distrust. This is where Jesus meets me.
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No, your wrong,

I just go by what a person says,, Thats all we can do.

And what you say does not line up with what God says. Period. Your trying to earn a gift, God said he freely gave (paid for by the blood of his son)

As paul said, I preach Christ and him crucified, Thats it..

Until a person is born again, and given the life of Christ, nothing else matters.

If you saw the cross, and Jesus hanging there, you would not use the words you have towards me.
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Yeah I would. In fact i would say them louder, because you are mocking the cross of Christ with your very words. And you do not even see it.

I would point to him, Look at you. demand you look at him, and say, there, there is the price of your sin,, ever sin you will ever commit. That man is paying the price, because he LOVES YOU!!

The Lord taught me an important lesson. Intellectual assent is simple, but walking in love is hard. Even to acknowledge love was the key was a strange concept to me. If we all learn to walk in love, our theology will always change to confirm the reality of what has taken place.

This is why you hold so strongly to your stances because of your emotional experience, but this is not mine and I am not the person you think you are trying to put right. I do wonder why you persist. Can you not read what I am writing or know what it is to walk in the Spirit?
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Emotions dont prove anything, if you were a try believer you would know that.

The gospel and the payment for sin, that means everything, for deny this, you deny God, and you will not make it past judgment day, because you have rejected the redemption of Jesus.
 
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PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#171
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#171
How do you walk into a room and know someone does not understand the emotional reality of your words?
You share your heart and they miss the point, because the feeling that should be there is missing.

Now the suggestion is emotions are meaningless. But emotions express who you are, they are the summary of your attitudes and interactions, a complex mixture of truth and reaction.

I have come to see that this defines our realities. What is an insult and what is a complement? These are defined by our culture and emotional responses. You cannot avoid how emotions are the language of relationship and what is peace to the soul and what is deeply disturbing. Until you have unlocked your own language and listen and let God speak to who you are do you know the beginning of communion. God has emotions, God speaks emotion to people, anger, joy, peace, laughter, mourning. Jesus cried because He knew His friends and felt for them. Empathy is based on identity, knowing where someone is and how they are coping. Worry is a product of emotion running wild. Jesus talks to this, and reassures with his comfort and blessing.

But those who do not have eyes to see do not see the comfort the Lord brings in the sermon on the mount.
 
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