Paradigm Shift

[Transcend]

Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”
(*Mark‬ *7‬:*13‬ NIV)

How much of christian belief and dogma is misinterpreted, mistranslated, false perception and tradition passed down from generation to generation resulting in twisted truth, half truth no truth at all? What if we trusted God enough to ask him to undo our religious mindsets that 'the church' has conditioned and brainwashed us to have (with all good intentions). If we trust him enough to let him pry our monkey grip fingers off of our precious doctrines and traditions, we may just see we are light years from understanding him and his heart and grace. Religion says don't question God. My response is this, question everything, especially God. What Father doesn't want his child to ask him questions?

 

[yoninah]

Over the years, the Church has invented for itself many series of rules that take the place of a relationship with God. The Church has then gone on to lift up its rules to the level of them being ordained by God. It *is* important to start from foundational values and build from the bottom up - but I have seen far too many professing believers come to the Scriptures with a belief that they try to justify from its pages.

While I agree that we must 'question', I think the phrase 'question God' is a bit too strong. Before we can come to God and to Scripture to be challenged in our wrong beliefs, to throw away what we thought was right and to change, we must have an unswerving trust in and faith in God.

'Questioning God' - to me - implies doubt (you may not be implying that - it's just how it comes across to me). Many people ask questions here based on a distrust of 'all things God' rather than to ask a question to lead on to Truth.

As I've followed God over the years, He has brought me to the point where every single subject I've studied, I have had to throw away *everything* I've believed on the subject to start from *nothing* and build from the ground up. It's been very, very challenging but it's made me realise that, more and more, we accept lots of concepts that aren't from God at all.

And I don't mean the wacky stuff!!

 

[dcontroversal]

I UNDERSTAND FULLY MATE WHAT U ARE SAYING....but will add...doctrine which means teaching is not a bad thing if it is biblical...without a doubt traditions have been usurping the word since day one...the Lord promised the perpetuity of his church and there will always be at least one true New Testament church on the planet that is teaching the truth which includes GOOD DOCTRINE....that is why we are to put everything to the test by the word...including that which comes forth from the pulpits........any deviation from the truth = a lie....Satan added one word (not) to what God had said and changed the truth into a lie...a half truth is still a lie. .....thanks for the thought....I MISS Stralia mate hahahha

 

[oldthennew]

this is such a good THREAD-SUBJECT, CRITICAL really...
MATT. 24:5. - For many shall come in My name, saying, I am Christ;(Jesus is Lord) and shall deceive many.

1THESS. 5:21.
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

ACTS 17:11.
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind
and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

this is our personal work/duty, as we are 'warned' that the deceptions are massive...we must not put our
responsibilities on any pastor, or brothers, or sisters, or others, for it is our CALLING, a one on ONE
relationship with Jesus Christ and His knowledge....we have to understand/know His Words,
from His mouth, if these things are so',, and not another's....

 

[p_rehbein]

Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”
(*Mark‬ *7‬:*13‬ NIV)

How much of christian belief and dogma is misinterpreted, mistranslated, false perception and tradition passed down from generation to generation resulting in twisted truth, half truth no truth at all?

What if we trusted God enough to ask him to undo our religious mindsets that 'the church' has conditioned and brainwashed us to have (with all good intentions).

If we trust him enough to let him pry our monkey grip fingers off of our precious doctrines and traditions, we may just see we are light years from understanding him and his heart and grace.

Religion says don't question God. My response is this, question everything, especially God. What Father doesn't want his child to ask him questions?

K, now I can read it...........

1) Questioning God and asking God questions are TWO VERY DIFFERENT THINGS.

2) "the church" are God's chosen.........if the folks you gather with are brainwashing and such, then they are not "the church."

3) The indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit is imparted to Sanctified Believer to instruct them in the Truth, and to allow them to have an understanding of God. Does not mean they will know ALL that God knows, but they will be able to relate to Him in a spiritual and blessed way.

 

[popeye]

I have been privileged to be a part of 5 major revivals in my walk with the Lord.

It is in these outpourings that one gets a standard to measure what can happen to dead religion when invaded by the power and presence of the Holy Spirit.

The word is powerful. Look how far it has sustained and carried mental religion (baptist comes to mind)

But paul says the letter killeth,but the Spirit giveth life.

IOW,we need both,but not both in a polluted mixture of a typical carnal american version of the faith.

We have yet to see the Gospel,in it's true radical-ness preached.

I have immersed myself in solid teachers of doctrine. I know and understand the genuine.
I have also immersed myself in revival. I have spent thousands of dollars traveling this country,investigating revival,and outpouring.
I was told by my church it was a waste of time and money.

They were so wrong.

They never got what I got. They missed it big time.

But i can not claim anything compared to some others. All I know is what I know. What I learned. What I was willing to sacrifice.

Most can only look at cherry picked twisted truth on a utube vid,designed to slime the HS himself.

That has to be a spirit. A last days spirit. Antichrist,hating nonsense.

There is a segment of the body that is akin to cancer. It is not readily seen. It is hidden. It hates the power of God. It attacks the members that have the Baptism of the HS. They are mental. Mental believers.

None of the early church were mental. Paul,through visions and personal tutelage of the HS, and the baptism of the HS,and speaking in tongues,wrote most of the NT. (Spirit inspired instuctional letters he had no idea how anointed they were)

Peter by mental exercise blew it over and over,but through HS revelation became a giant.

Stephen Saw Heaven opened and Jesus stood up.
The book of acts barely has a chapter W/O the supernatural.

The mental church is top heavy in doctrine and the written word.

We need another revival.

 

[wattie]

Again we have the word 'church' being used to signify two different things--

1) Every believer
2) a christian assembly -- visible, localised.. baptised believers..

Is it really both?

Thayer wrote that in all the Greek lexicons and references to church in the New Testament.. there is NOT ONE occasion where it is referring to a universal, invisible entity.

It either refers to 1) one christian assembly/congregation in particular-- eg.. at Phillipi.. at Corinth.. at Ephesus..

or 2) it is generic for all christian assemblies/congregations and not targeted at one in particular. Eg.. 'the church is the pillar and ground of the truth'

The bible does refer to a church of all redeemed.. but that is in the New Jerusalem.. when ALL believers are gathered as one.

This has not happened yet, we don't have a church of all redeemed yet. Not one earth. It will be a 'yet future' church of all redeemed.

Like DControversial referred to.. the New Testament church. This is a localised christian assembly. It's not all redeemed.

 

[crossnote]

Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”
(*Mark‬ *7‬:*13‬ NIV)

How much of christian belief and dogma is misinterpreted, mistranslated, false perception and tradition passed down from generation to generation resulting in twisted truth, half truth no truth at all? What if we trusted God enough to ask him to undo our religious mindsets that 'the church' has conditioned and brainwashed us to have (with all good intentions). If we trust him enough to let him pry our monkey grip fingers off of our precious doctrines and traditions, we may just see we are light years from understanding him and his heart and grace. Religion says don't question God. My response is this, question everything, especially God. What Father doesn't want his child to ask him questions?

And the result may just be new traditions, false perceptions, misinterpretations as well.

 

[Magenta]

Religion says don't question God.

Where? Scripture attests, God says:

Come now, and let us reason together...

 

[crossnote]

Again we have the word 'church' being used to signify two different things--

1) Every believer
2) a christian assembly -- visible, localised.. baptised believers..

Is it really both?

Thayer wrote that in all the Greek lexicons and references to church in the New Testament.. there is NOT ONE occasion where it is referring to a universal, invisible entity.

It either refers to 1) one christian assembly/congregation in particular-- eg.. at Phillipi.. at Corinth.. at Ephesus..

or 2) it is generic for all christian assemblies/congregations and not targeted at one in particular. Eg.. 'the church is the pillar and ground of the truth'

The bible does refer to a church of all redeemed.. but that is in the New Jerusalem.. when ALL believers are gathered as one.

This has not happened yet, we don't have a church of all redeemed yet. Not one earth. It will be a 'yet future' church of all redeemed.

Like DControversial referred to.. the New Testament church. This is a localised christian assembly. It's not all redeemed.

I might have to call Thayer (who was a Unitarian) out on that one...

And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent.
(Col 1:18)

Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in Christ's afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church,
(Col 1:24)

...at least the whole body is not visible...i.e. the Head.

 

[wattie]

I might have to call Thayer (who was a Unitarian) out on that one...

And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent.
(Col 1:18)

Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in Christ's afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church,
(Col 1:24)

...at least the whole body is not visible...i.e. the Head.

'the body', 'the church'..

Im thinking you are calling this generic sense of these words all redeemed?

Well... When we speak of 'the horse' does this not mean one visible horse or generic for all horses?

When we speak of 'the public bar' isnt this the same?

So i would put forward that 'the body', 'the church' is generic sense for all christian assemblies, churches. And it cab also be targeted to one in particular.

Are you calling the Family of God the same thing as the body of Christ? Are they not different entities?

Family- God, angels plus all redeemed

Body- generic for a local christian assembly.

 

[yoninah]

So i would put forward that 'the body', 'the church' is generic sense for all christian assemblies, churches. And it cab also be targeted to one in particular.

I've got in to the habit of using Church (capital C) to denote the universal body of believers (living and passed on) and church (small c) to denote a small group of believers within the larger Church. I've also trained myself to speak of buildings in which churches meet as, er, buildings, never churches (as the NT).

To each his own, I guess - but we often need to clarify what each of us mean by the words we use or else it's very easy to misunderstand what's being conveyed.

 

[tanakh]

Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”
(*Mark‬ *7‬:*13‬ NIV)

How much of christian belief and dogma is misinterpreted, mistranslated, false perception and tradition passed down from generation to generation resulting in twisted truth, half truth no truth at all? What if we trusted God enough to ask him to undo our religious mindsets that 'the church' has conditioned and brainwashed us to have (with all good intentions). If we trust him enough to let him pry our monkey grip fingers off of our precious doctrines and traditions, we may just see we are light years from understanding him and his heart and grace. Religion says don't question God. My response is this, question everything, especially God. What Father doesn't want his child to ask him questions?

The traditions Jesus attacked were additions to the Law. The Pharisees added what they considered safeguards or Hedges around the Mosaic Law like tithing herbs. They also concentrated on the letter of the law rather than its spirit. Many church traditions stem directly from scripture as with the doctrines. The Bible itself is a part of tradition because the
New Testament books were selected by Bishops at the Council of Laodicia. The Old Testament was compiled by a group of Pharisees in 130AD