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Thread: Gospel of the Kingdom vs the Gospel Paul preached

  1. #181
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    Default Re: Gospel of the Kingdom vs the Gospel Paul preached

    Quote Originally Posted by John146 View Post
    Explain to me what the gospel of grace is without using Paul's letters. The how's of Christ's death are revealed in the four gospels, but the whys and wherefores of Christ's death where not completely revealed until after His resurrection. Only then did the world find out that Christ died specifically for our sins and we must trust in Him for forgiveness of sins. The Lord Jesus Christ would reveal all the mysteries of His coming to the Apostle Paul.
    Read psalms, Grace is all throughout psalms. David understood it well (sacrifice and burnt offering you did not desire)

    Study the law, Grace is pictured in the day of atonement.
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    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Gospel of the Kingdom vs the Gospel Paul preached

    Quote Originally Posted by John146 View Post
    Right, there is neither Jew nor Gentile in the body of Christ. But there was no body of Christ before the resurrection and one day, the body of Christ that is now, will be raptured. The 1,000 year reign of Christ is not eternity. It is the kingdom of heaven on earth.
    There's that rapture doctrine which I'm sure you refer to a pre-trib rapture, which I knew was part of the Hyper-Grace doctrinist's beliefs that led them to devise their Paul only gospel doctrine. Just one lie piled on top of another.

    God's Church began in OT times through those whom He called and chose back then, and revealed His Salvation which is why they knew and looked for the coming of Christ. They already had the Gospel of Salvation, but just weren't aware about the cross that would seal it. And the mystery Paul spoke of in Eph.3 wasn't about first knowledge about God's Plan of Salvation to Israel, but about it including believing Gentiles as "... fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ by the gospel;" (Eph.3:6).

    That's also why Paul said this to believing Gentiles:

    Eph 2:19-20
    19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
    20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner stone;
    KJV

    Why would Paul include the Apostles of Christ and the OT prophets in that foundation if only Paul preached the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

    That right there which Hyper-Grace deceived try to omit from Paul's gospel shows up in Paul's own preaching of the Gospel of Jesus Christ!

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    Default Re: Gospel of the Kingdom vs the Gospel Paul preached

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    Read psalms, Grace is all throughout psalms. David understood it well (sacrifice and burnt offering you did not desire)

    Study the law, Grace is pictured in the day of atonement.

    Grace is pictured all throughout the OT Scripture, but the grace that would be provided through the cross was kept in mystery form until after the resurrection. There was no "looking forward to the cross" in the OT. There were only shadows and types of that which was to come.

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    Default Re: Gospel of the Kingdom vs the Gospel Paul preached

    Quote Originally Posted by John146 View Post
    Grace is pictured all throughout the OT Scripture, but the grace that would be provided through the cross was kept in mystery form until after the resurrection. There was no "looking forward to the cross" in the OT. There were only shadows and types of that which was to come.

    Yes, But they were still saved by grace.. They looked to the one promised in Gen 3: 15, The suffering servant, who would suffer for the sin of the people..

    The mystery is that the servant and messiah were one and the same, It had to be that way, God had to keep it from Satan so satan would do what God wanted him to do. Prove God right. and him a liar.
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Gospel of the Kingdom vs the Gospel Paul preached

    Quote Originally Posted by DP View Post
    There's that rapture doctrine which I'm sure you refer to a pre-trib rapture, which I knew was part of the Hyper-Grace doctrinist's beliefs that led them to devise their Paul only gospel doctrine. Just one lie piled on top of another.

    God's Church began in OT times through those whom He called and chose back then, and revealed His Salvation which is why they knew and looked for the coming of Christ. They already had the Gospel of Salvation, but just weren't aware about the cross that would seal it. And the mystery Paul spoke of in Eph.3 wasn't about first knowledge about God's Plan of Salvation to Israel, but about it including believing Gentiles as "... fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ by the gospel;" (Eph.3:6).

    That's also why Paul said this to believing Gentiles:

    Eph 2:19-20
    19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
    20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner stone;
    KJV

    Why would Paul include the Apostles of Christ and the OT prophets in that foundation if only Paul preached the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

    That right there which Hyper-Grace deceived try to omit from Paul's gospel shows up in Paul's own preaching of the Gospel of Jesus Christ!

    whats this hyper grace crap? There is no such thing, Grace is free, You can not get free-er than free..

    Do you get hyper gifts on Christmas??

    and the rapture. It comes from the latin word, which means to be "caught up" it is spoken of in the word.


    1 Thessalonians 4:17 [Full Chapter]
    Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up (raptured) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Gospel of the Kingdom vs the Gospel Paul preached

    Quote Originally Posted by crossnote View Post
    He threw up an endless barrage of verses (the JW's can give you an endless barrage too) and the got banned.
    No, I am not watchman, in answer to that question.

    Yet what he covered in that thread is dead on with keeping to the actual Scripture as written. I can't help that you'd rather listen to something else other than that Scripture proof he covered, which are the same Scriptures that anyone truly studied in God's Word realizes that Christ's coming to gather His Church is after the tribulation like Jesus and His Apostles taught.

    Your JW reference as an attempt to discredit is totally ignorant, since the origin of the preaching of the pre-trib rapture theory can only be traced back to the 1830's with Darby and the Irvingite movement in Great Britain. Prior to the 1830's, the Christian Church as a majority held to a post-trib coming and gathering of the Church, even as pre-trib scholars have admitted in their writings.

    I'll just address his first one

    The 'elect' spoken there is the tribulation saints comprised mostly of Jews, the same group He is speaking to in Mt 24.
    The elect can pertain to any group God chooses to save at any particular time, not just the Church age elect, e.g...
    Jesus gave the signs of the Seals of Rev.6 to them upon the Mount of Olives in Matt.24, Mark 13, and Luke 21. The seals of Revelation were given through Apostle John by Christ to the seven Churches in Asia; i.e., CHRISTIAN CHURCHES. Thus pre-trib's theory about that being only for Jews falls flat on its bum against that Biblical evidence. No such idea as Church Ages taught in God's Word either, that's simply another devised doctrine from John Darby's 19th century Dispensationalist theories.

    Romans 11:5-7 KJVS
    [5] Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. [6] And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. [7] What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
    The first group in Rom.11 Paul is referring to are Israelites which God Himself preserved in The Gospel. All those who believe on Jesus Christ are included with them, including the Gentile. Those make up Christ's Church. Paul himself was in that group, as all those Jesus called and chose at His first coming forward were. But that is totally irrelevant to the timing which our Lord Jesus and His Apostles showed for His 2nd coming and gathering of His Church.

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    Default Re: Gospel of the Kingdom vs the Gospel Paul preached

    Quote Originally Posted by John146 View Post
    Remember, this is the first Gentile saved in Scripture and it comes right after the rejection of Stephen's sermon by the Jewish counsel leading to his death. Philip knew about the cross and forgiveness of sins and could use the shadows and types in the OT to lead the eunuch to the knowledge of Jesus Christ. In chapter 9, God would call out Saul to become the Apostle Paul who God would use to preach the entire truth of the death, burial and resurrection, as well as, the doctrine to the body of Christ which was given through revelation to the Apostle Paul.
    Even in Acts 10, God used Apostle Peter to preach The Gospel of Jesus Christ to Gentiles. So Paul was not the first to preach the Gospel to Gentiles. Nor did Jesus choose Paul to preach the Gospel only to Gentiles, as revealed in Acts 9.

    So Hyper-Grace's attempt to isolate Paul only in preaching of the Gospel of Jesus Christ fails miserably in contrast to the Scriptures as actually written.

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    Default Re: Gospel of the Kingdom vs the Gospel Paul preached

    Quote Originally Posted by John146 View Post
    Matthew 24:14, "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."

    Has the gospel of the kingdom been preached in all the world? What happens when the gospel of the kingdom is preached in all the world? Has the end come?

    Paul said the gospel he preached went out in all the world, preached to all nations, and preached to every creature under heaven. The end has not come.

    Can't help but think about what Jesus said concerning "LIKE, a thief in the night", and what "images" these words bring to mind......."And, NOW.......for something COMPLETELY different." Such as the opening words to Monty Python's flying circus, meaning? No matter what one, does in preparing oneself for His coming in foresight? It is more like an "event" ya won't see until after it occurs. Yep? He is that clever!
    (Cutting through the chaff)

    "You GO Lord Of The Harvest!"




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    Default Re: Gospel of the Kingdom vs the Gospel Paul preached

    Many brethren are not really aware of how our Lord Jesus meant that the gospel of the kingdom must first be "published" to all nations, and then the end will come.

    He said that right amid verses He was speaking of the tribulation time when some of His elect are delivered up to councils and synagogues to give a Testimony for Him (Mark 13:9-13). The Greek word for "published" can also mean like a town crier or herald that used to get up on boxes in the town square to make a proclamation.

    That event is actually about the event of Joel 2 which Apostle Peter quoted in Acts 2 on Pentecost. The Pentecost event of the cloven tongue going out to peoples out of ever nation in their own dialect and language of birth was but an example of the Joel 2 prophecy which is actually for the very end of this world during the tribulation when some of Christ's elect are delivered up to give a Witness and Testimony of Jesus Christ to all... nations. The time for that event has not yet come today; it's for the time of 'great tribulation' which Jesus was showing there in Mark 13.

    And it makes sense that Jesus would say that is the "gospel of the kingdom" that will be proclaimed then, because immediately after that event His second coming will occur, and all the kingdoms of this world will become those of Him and The Father (Rev.11).

  10. #190
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    Default Re: Gospel of the Kingdom vs the Gospel Paul preached

    Quote Originally Posted by John146 View Post
    Remember, this is the first Gentile saved in Scripture and it comes right after the rejection of Stephen's sermon by the Jewish counsel leading to his death. Philip knew about the cross and forgiveness of sins and could use the shadows and types in the OT to lead the eunuch to the knowledge of Jesus Christ. In chapter 9, God would call out Saul to become the Apostle Paul who God would use to preach the entire truth of the death, burial and resurrection, as well as, the doctrine to the body of Christ which was given through revelation to the Apostle Paul.

    That would be false that the Ethiopian was the first Gentile saved in scripture, at Pentecost there were a number of Gentiles present. Which is why the scripture said the Holy Spirit brought down tongues as of fire on each Apostle, so that those from different places could hear the good news in their language !!!
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    Default Re: Gospel of the Kingdom vs the Gospel Paul preached

    Quote Originally Posted by KennethC View Post
    That would be false that the Ethiopian was the first Gentile saved in scripture, at Pentecost there were a number of Gentiles present. Which is why the scripture said the Holy Spirit brought down tongues as of fire on each Apostle, so that those from different places could hear the good news in their language !!!
    umm, The jews were still disperesed. They had returned to jerusalem for pentecost.

    The aposltes did not speak to gentiles. But jews in the language of the land they came from. Which iw what made it a miracle. It would have met nothing if they spoke it all in hebrew, even though all of them could speak hebrew..
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    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Gospel of the Kingdom vs the Gospel Paul preached

    Quote Originally Posted by DP View Post
    Many brethren are not really aware of how our Lord Jesus meant that the gospel of the kingdom must first be "published" to all nations, and then the end will come.

    He said that right amid verses He was speaking of the tribulation time when some of His elect are delivered up to councils and synagogues to give a Testimony for Him (Mark 13:9-13). The Greek word for "published" can also mean like a town crier or herald that used to get up on boxes in the town square to make a proclamation.

    That event is actually about the event of Joel 2 which Apostle Peter quoted in Acts 2 on Pentecost. The Pentecost event of the cloven tongue going out to peoples out of ever nation in their own dialect and language of birth was but an example of the Joel 2 prophecy which is actually for the very end of this world during the tribulation when some of Christ's elect are delivered up to give a Witness and Testimony of Jesus Christ to all... nations. The time for that event has not yet come today; it's for the time of 'great tribulation' which Jesus was showing there in Mark 13.

    And it makes sense that Jesus would say that is the "gospel of the kingdom" that will be proclaimed then, because immediately after that event His second coming will occur, and all the kingdoms of this world will become those of Him and The Father (Rev.11).


    That's what makes Paul's gospel of the death, burial and resurrection different. Both are dealing with Jesus Christ.

    gospel of the kingdom - Christ as King ruling on earth, has not been preached to all nations yet, be will be preached to all nations right before the 2nd Advent during the great tribulation

    gospel of grace - Christ the savior through His death, burial and resurrection, has been preached to all nations (Romans 16:26), in all the world (Colossians 1:6), and to every creature under heaven (Colossians 1:23).

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    Default Re: Gospel of the Kingdom vs the Gospel Paul preached

    Quote Originally Posted by John146 View Post
    That's what makes Paul's gospel of the death, burial and resurrection different. Both are dealing with Jesus Christ.

    gospel of the kingdom - Christ as King ruling on earth, has not been preached to all nations yet, be will be preached to all nations right before the 2nd Advent during the great tribulation

    gospel of grace - Christ the savior through His death, burial and resurrection, has been preached to all nations (Romans 16:26), in all the world (Colossians 1:6), and to every creature under heaven (Colossians 1:23).
    Same Gospel, because Jesus Christ cannot be separated from either concept, His grace nor His kingdom. But Darby's Dispensationalism tries to do that separation of grace from His kingdom, applying the promise to restore Israel's kingdom as being separate from Gentile believers, which of course is just a man-made doctrine, and not Scriptural at all.

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    Default Re: Gospel of the Kingdom vs the Gospel Paul preached

    Quote Originally Posted by John146 View Post
    That's what makes Paul's gospel of the death, burial and resurrection different. Both are dealing with Jesus Christ.

    gospel of the kingdom - Christ as King ruling on earth, has not been preached to all nations yet, be will be preached to all nations right before the 2nd Advent during the great tribulation

    gospel of grace - Christ the savior through His death, burial and resurrection, has been preached to all nations (Romans 16:26), in all the world (Colossians 1:6), and to every creature under heaven (Colossians 1:23).

    It is not intelligent nor is it helpful in any manner to attempt to found a new manner in using the word, Gospel, when making reference to it pertinence to the Word of God. Paul is quite clear in the use of this word, whether it be the Good News or Gospel being used; there is only one Gospel. Beware of changing the meaning of words presented by the deisciples, albeit translated.

    Yes, I understand how you are misusing the word, Gospel, but many may not, ergo confusion. Stick with the Word as it is given to us, and the meaning of Gospel as given to us by people wiser than we.



    Gal 1:6
    I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

    Gal 1:7
    Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.


    Gal 1:8
    But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
    From the Mouth of our Lord, Jesus Christ, or do you call Him Yeshua?
    Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.


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    Default Re: Gospel of the Kingdom vs the Gospel Paul preached

    Quote Originally Posted by John146 View Post
    Dispensationalism is where the erroneous idea of a dual Gospel comes from. John Darby who got the Pre-trib Rapture theory going from the Edward Irving church is who devised Dispensationalism. The dual Gospel idea came of his mis-interpretation of a pre-trib rapture, falsely claiming the Gentile Church is raptured prior to the tribulation while the Jews are left behind, and that the Gentile saints rule with Christ from Heaven while the Jews have their kingdom established on earth. That dispensationalist theory of course is NOT written in God's Word. It is a total fabrication of men.
    Dispensations were given by God. It's a Bible term.

    1 Corinthians 9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation [of the gospel] is committed unto me.

    Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:

    Ephesians 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

    Colossians 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

    Everyone on this board who studies the Bible is a dispensationalist in one way or another. God revealed truth to man gradually over the course of human history not all at once. God revealed truth to Adam, but He would reveal more truth to Noah. What He gave Abraham was different than what He gave to Noah. He didn't reveal everything to His disciples while He was with them. After His resurrection, He would reveal more truth, mainly, why the d,b,r happened and man is to trust in that for forgiveness of sins.
    Darby and et al only USED that term to create a whole other set of philosophy with though, like the Church Ages doctrine which tries to treat Christ's seven Messages to the seven Churches as separate ages for each Church, when in reality those seven Churches are represented by seven candlesticks in Heaven (Rev.1), all seven Messages are for ALL Churches all the way to the end of this world.

    So one can look at that word "dispensation" as to how Apostle Paul used it, or they can go off on a tangent and create other doctrines with it, like Darby and et al have. Thus your concept on that is completely irrelevant and proves nothing as to what you're claiming.

    So just how... was Apostle Paul using that term "dispensation"? The Greek word (oikonomia) means 'an administration'.

    An administration of the ONE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST, is Paul's meaning and usage. The difference was how Jesus chose him to especially take the ONE GOSPEL also to the Gentiles.

    John 8:56-58
    56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day: and he saw it, and was glad.
    57 Then said the Jews unto Him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast Thou seen Abraham?
    58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
    KJV


    In Genesis 14, Abraham was offered "bread and wine" by Melchizedek, Who was our Lord Jesus per Hebrews 7. Bread and wine are sacraments of the New Covenant. Thus the Gospel was known also by Abraham, he knew Jesus in OT times, met Him (Gen. 18).

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    Default Re: Gospel of the Kingdom vs the Gospel Paul preached

    Paul taught "The Gospel of Christ" and "Christ" is "Spirit" therefore he taught "The Gospel of Spirit" because in Romans 1:16 he said "...it is the power of God..." AND is the same thing as "the gospel of the Kingdom."

    Because Paul said in I Corinthians 4:20 "For the Kingdom of God (aka "the gospel of the Kingdom") is not in talking but in "power" and Jesus defined "power" in Acts 1:8 when He said "But ye shall receive 'power' after that the Holy Spirit [baptism] is come upon you..."

    Therefore "the Kingdom" is the "power" that we receive "*after that* the Holy Spirit is come upon us" and IS "The Gospel of Christ" or "The Gospel of Spirit" which Paul taught (Romans 1:16)!
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    Default Re: Gospel of the Kingdom vs the Gospel Paul preached

    Because "The Gospel of Christ" is "The Gospel of SPIRIT" and the OT prophets *BELIEVED* "THE SPIRIT" and received "The Good News" from "THE SPIRIT" of the coming of Christ and is why they are mentioned as "the foundation" of the forthcoming "Gospel of SPIRIT" or "The Gospel of Christ" (Romans 1:16).
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    Default Re: Gospel of the Kingdom vs the Gospel Paul preached

    Quote Originally Posted by Incognito View Post
    Paul taught "The Gospel of Christ" and "Christ" is "Spirit" therefore he taught "The Gospel of Spirit" because in Romans 1:16 he said "...it is the power of God..." AND is the same thing as "the gospel of the Kingdom."

    Because Paul said in I Corinthians 4:20 "For the Kingdom of God (aka "the gospel of the Kingdom") is not in talking but in "power" and Jesus defined "power" in Acts 1:8 when He said "But ye shall receive 'power' after that the Holy Spirit [baptism] is come upon you..."

    Therefore "the Kingdom" is the "power" that we receive "*after that* the Holy Spirit is come upon us" and IS "The Gospel of Christ" or "The Gospel of Spirit" which Paul taught (Romans 1:16)!

    no

    Jesus has a body. He is not spirit.

    Paul did not teach the gospel of spirit either.

    God is Spirit, not 'a' spirit, but Spirit

    and of course the Holy Spirit is also Spirit

    Jesus was resurrected with a physical body.

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    Default Re: Gospel of the Kingdom vs the Gospel Paul preached

    Quote Originally Posted by Incognito View Post
    Because "The Gospel of Christ" is "The Gospel of SPIRIT" and the OT prophets *BELIEVED* "THE SPIRIT" and received "The Good News" from "THE SPIRIT" of the coming of Christ and is why they are mentioned as "the foundation" of the forthcoming "Gospel of SPIRIT" or "The Gospel of Christ" (Romans 1:16).

    please indicate where you believe that Romans 1:16 says Paul is teaching the 'gospel of spirit'

    not sure why you would resurrect this old thread either since someone just started a thread about possible contradictions between the teaching of Paul and Jesus

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    Default Re: Gospel of the Kingdom vs the Gospel Paul preached

    In 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Paul clearly states: 1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures.

    In Ephesians 3:1-9, Paul clearly states: Ephesians 3:1 - For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles— 2 if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, 3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, 7 of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power. 8 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9 and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ.

    In Galatians 1:6-9, we see that false teachers were troubling the Galatians and were perverting the gospel that Paul received from Christ by revelation. The Judaizers' perverted the gospel by "adding" requirements (laws) from the Old Covenant as necessary prerequisites to salvation and we have misguided, modern day Judaizers' today who pervert the gospel by "adding" requirements from the OT law, which results in salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works." Paul refers to this as a "different" gospel, which is no good news at all!

    To BELIEVE the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation, yet sadly, the gospel continues to be perverted today by works-salvationists/modern day Judaizers/misquided teachers of the law.
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