Geocentricity.

[Lordardan]

A subject that I have never really thought about.
But the more I look into the more it seems to be legit.

Joshua 10:12-13
Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon. And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

Psalms 104:5
[Who] laid the foundations of the earth, [that] it should not be removed for ever.

1 Chronicles 16:30
Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quUpQLtKEB8[/video]
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVPMsQYNThg[/video]
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YC048xVqdwM[/video]
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTzwm14OPU8[/video]

 

[phil36]

Hi,

Thanks for that, I think it is totally possible, I am a literal creationist anyhow, so I don't need persuading.

It does make a lot of sense. and secondly, shows how far the enemy will spin lies to sucker folk.

Phil

 

[Lordardan]

Hi,

Thanks for that, I think it is totally possible, I am a literal creationist anyhow, so I don't need persuading.

It does make a lot of sense. and secondly, shows how far the enemy will spin lies to sucker folk.

Phil

It does make one wonder what else is a lie.

 

[glenwood74]

Some interesting videos. Once I finally came to be a believer in Jesus Christ as the Savior of the world, I had to become more open minded about every aspect of life. I had to open my mind to God's way of thinking and completely change my point of view as a being who believed what he saw and what he was told, to a being who believed what the Spirit of the Living Christ moved him to believe. As that new creation, I will definitely have to consider this different way of viewing the world, although, in all honesty, it strains my intellect, because as a human being I still believe a lot of what I am told.

Thank you for sharing these videos.

 

[Slepsog4]

My question is, So What?

 

[sunonsnow]

Food for thought for those reading/watching this thread:

Consider the presentation of the videos. A nice, grandfatherly man, with a calm voice. Nothing about him is abrasive, therefore avoiding having your warning flags go up. He's knowledgeable, gives proof for his reasoning, and most importantly... you wanted to believe it! It fits into your view perfectly, it helps "prove" what you believe, therefore he must be correct! There's no doubting a wise white-haired man who says things that you wanted to believe in the first place.

Think of it this way: a five year old was just told by an older schoolmate that Santa is a myth. Then his grandpa comes along and tells him that Santa actually IS real, and the 5 y/o believes him merely because he liked the idea of Santa and the joy it brought him.

In other words, don't believe something just because it makes you feel good, etc.

 

[phil36]

Food for thought for those reading/watching this thread:

Consider the presentation of the videos. A nice, grandfatherly man, with a calm voice. Nothing about him is abrasive, therefore avoiding having your warning flags go up. He's knowledgeable, gives proof for his reasoning, and most importantly... you wanted to believe it! It fits into your view perfectly, it helps "prove" what you believe, therefore he must be correct! There's no doubting a wise white-haired man who says things that you wanted to believe in the first place.

Think of it this way: a five year old was just told by an older schoolmate that Santa is a myth. Then his grandpa comes along and tells him that Santa actually IS real, and the 5 y/o believes him merely because he liked the idea of Santa and the joy it brought him.

In other words, don't believe something just because it makes you feel good, etc.

Are you saying they are talking rubbish?

 

[ProudLibertarian]

Are you saying they are talking rubbish?

Well arent they? LOL

 

[phil36]

lol I haven't a clue , I was never that good at science lol. but makes for a good thread

 

[sunonsnow]

Are you saying they are talking rubbish?

I'm suggesting people need to be careful that they don't believe everything presented to them, even if it DOES look pretty. I'm suggesting that they take what sounds good and do research in multiple places, to see if the pretty thing is true or not.

 

[MahogonySnail]

The bible not only teaches a geocentric universe, but a flat earth. It's important to realise the biblical authors drew from the best secular scientific knowledge they had at the time to describe the known world, and all of Israel's Babylonian and Egyptian neighbours believed in these types of flat earths. It is no surprise that Israel believed in them as well. Particularly since Israel spent a lot of time in Egyptian and Babylonian captivity. The confusion arises because the shape of the earth was actually thought to be a round dome, half a sphere, with nothing underneath, and a hard sky dome surface. This is why biblical authors made reference to metal work in the way which the earth was "spread out like a tent" and the sky hammered out like a bronze mirror.

That the bible teaches a spherical earth is incorrect. It teaches a flat earth which is a hemisphere. So there are references to roundness (due to the circular shape of the flat earth), but this does not mean a completely spherical ball as we know it.

When we come to the new testament, christianity did believe in a spherical earth, unlike their old testament forefathers, but not because of the old testament or the bible, but because of the work done by the secular Greeks. Again, Christianity drew their knowledge about the earth from the best secular knowledge they had available at the time.

Modern christians today say the bible teaches a spherical earth, because they too are drawing from the best secular knowledge they have (that we know the earth is a sphere thanks to space flights), but re-interpreting the bible to fit their view. A strict literal interpretation of the bible and the words which the authors chose to use , starting right back in Genesis where it talks about a hard sky dome firmanent with windows that opened and shut and allowed rain and the moon and the sun to shine through, will lead to a flat earth geocentric conclusion. The trap is, that people use the bible as a scientific textbook which was never its or its Author's/author's intended purpose.

 

[MahogonySnail]

So, there will be loonies around who take the bible so literally that they adopt an ancient world view on the nature of our universe, based on the faulty assumption that the bible contains absolutely scientifically sound facts.

 

[Lordardan]

I never mentioned a flat Earth.
What if you are wrong? Can you prove that the Earth is not the centre of the world?

 

[MahogonySnail]

It has been scientifically proven by various methods that the earth is not at the centre but the Sun is . See this website:

http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae614.cfm

 

[MahogonySnail]

Geocentrics only have it half right. They draw from science on the one hand that shows us the world is a sphere (something they would be hard pressed to deny), but on the other hand they ignore science when it comes to whether we are at the centre. Biblically speaking they are only half correct. They realise the geocentric language of the bible, but fail to realise this is also accompanyied by a flat earth model in the ancient author's mind.

 

[ProudLibertarian]

Londardan, A literal interpretation of the bible does suggest the world earth is indeed flat.

 

[QuestionTime]

The bible not only teaches a geocentric universe, but a flat earth. It's important to realise the biblical authors drew from the best secular scientific knowledge they had at the time to describe the known world, and all of Israel's Babylonian and Egyptian neighbours believed in these types of flat earths. It is no surprise that Israel believed in them as well. Particularly since Israel spent a lot of time in Egyptian and Babylonian captivity. The confusion arises because the shape of the earth was actually thought to be a round dome, half a sphere, with nothing underneath, and a hard sky dome surface. This is why biblical authors made reference to metal work in the way which the earth was "spread out like a tent" and the sky hammered out like a bronze mirror.

That the bible teaches a spherical earth is incorrect. It teaches a flat earth which is a hemisphere. So there are references to roundness (due to the circular shape of the flat earth), but this does not mean a completely spherical ball as we know it.

When we come to the new testament, christianity did believe in a spherical earth, unlike their old testament forefathers, but not because of the old testament or the bible, but because of the work done by the secular Greeks. Again, Christianity drew their knowledge about the earth from the best secular knowledge they had available at the time.

Modern christians today say the bible teaches a spherical earth, because they too are drawing from the best secular knowledge they have (that we know the earth is a sphere thanks to space flights), but re-interpreting the bible to fit their view. A strict literal interpretation of the bible and the words which the authors chose to use , starting right back in Genesis where it talks about a hard sky dome firmanent with windows that opened and shut and allowed rain and the moon and the sun to shine through, will lead to a flat earth geocentric conclusion. The trap is, that people use the bible as a scientific textbook which was never its or its Author's/author's intended purpose.

I don't know that I can agree with you on this Mahogany. If the Bible was inspired I doubt there were any misconceptions about the shape of the earth. If the Bible says the earth was a circle, I am inclined to believe that they had their understanding shaped by God.

Quest

 

[MahogonySnail]

As long as we don't misunderstand what is inspired and what is not. I don't think God intended to inspire the biblical authors to give us a scientific document. The bible does say the earth is a circle, but that is a 2 dimensional object not a sphere. It is describing the circular shape of the face of the earth, which is supposed to be a flat circular disk. The Hebrews did have a word for sphere they could have used if they thought it was a ball, but they used circle instead. Flat-earthism, is based upon an extremely literal and fundamental interpretation of the bible. The bible refers to hard sky dome firmanents, windows of heaven (in the ancient mind, these windows opened up to let the light or rain or hail through), Daniel and Jesus able to see all the kingdoms of the earth from a tall point on the earth (impossible in a round earth), the earth being held up by pillars. This is all flat earth language. For the modern day Christian who wishes to paint the picture that the bible teaches a round earth, they have to explain away the obvious flat-earth language used in the old testament. The more probable and simpler solution to this sort of language being in the bible, is that the author's adopted a secular view on the nature of the universe and the earth, and knew about as much about the science of the universe as their Egyptian neighbours. Given that the bible nowhere says "and the Lord said to Moses, the earth is a ball", I cannot imagine they would have had more knowledge about the universe than anyone else at the time.

Take this verse for example:

Gen 8:2 Also the fountains of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and rain from heaven was restrained.


"windows of heaven were stopped". We might think it is a nice poetic fancy way to say that God stopped the rain. But as Genesis is not a book of poetry, I think that is unlikely written just for the sake of being fancy and poetic. But if we look closely, it is referring to portals or windows in a hard sky dome firmament above the earth, that were closed preventing water from falling through. I think the ancient author of Genesis literally believed that there were windows that opened and shut, allowing or stopping rain falling through. It is consistent with a flat-earth world view.

 

[greatkraw]

The bible not only teaches a geocentric universe, but a flat earth. It's important to realise the biblical authors drew from the best secular scientific knowledge they had at the time to describe the known world, and all of Israel's Babylonian and Egyptian neighbours believed in these types of flat earths. It is no surprise that Israel believed in them as well. Particularly since Israel spent a lot of time in Egyptian and Babylonian captivity. The confusion arises because the shape of the earth was actually thought to be a round dome, half a sphere, with nothing underneath, and a hard sky dome surface. This is why biblical authors made reference to metal work in the way which the earth was "spread out like a tent" and the sky hammered out like a bronze mirror.

That the bible teaches a spherical earth is incorrect. It teaches a flat earth which is a hemisphere. So there are references to roundness (due to the circular shape of the flat earth), but this does not mean a completely spherical ball as we know it.

When we come to the new testament, christianity did believe in a spherical earth, unlike their old testament forefathers, but not because of the old testament or the bible, but because of the work done by the secular Greeks. Again, Christianity drew their knowledge about the earth from the best secular knowledge they had available at the time.

Modern christians today say the bible teaches a spherical earth, because they too are drawing from the best secular knowledge they have (that we know the earth is a sphere thanks to space flights), but re-interpreting the bible to fit their view. A strict literal interpretation of the bible and the words which the authors chose to use , starting right back in Genesis where it talks about a hard sky dome firmanent with windows that opened and shut and allowed rain and the moon and the sun to shine through, will lead to a flat earth geocentric conclusion. The trap is, that people use the bible as a scientific textbook which was never its or its Author's/author's intended purpose.

you are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO wrong snail - as you pointed out in another thread - the world is square!

 

[ProudLibertarian]

Heres one of many verses

Matthew 4:8 (New International Version)


Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.




Only possible on a flat Earth.