THE "UNSAVED COMPOSERS" ARGUMENT (Refuting CCMers)

[ChosenbyHim]

THE "UNSAVED COMPOSERS" ARGUMENT

Written by brother James L. Melton

​

Christians who like classical music are sometimes criticized for listening to music composed by unsaved men. In addition to overlooking the fact that some of the composers were Christians, the critic also overlooks the fact that being saved has very little to do with the quality of music that one produces. Anyone who has attended a typical gospel singing in a country church has witnessed this truth first-hand, whether he realizes it or not.


If I ever need open-heart surgery, I will be far more concerned with finding a SKILLED surgeon than with finding a spiritual one. In fact, if I am informed that the the surgeon and all his staff are Christians, yet they have never performed a surgery, then I shall look elsewhere for my surgeon. So it is with finding a good mechanic, a good plumber, a good bricklayer, or a good accountant. For that matter, some of the King James translators were probably lost. So what?
No one believes that a man is a good preacher or teacher just because he is saved, so why are the music people of modern Christianity given a pass just because they profess salvation and can carry a tune? The dirty little answer is that they oftentimes feed enough Laodicean flesh to keep the attendance and offerings up even though their musical SKILL is often found wanting or is terribly perverted.


The composers, on the other hand, were not from Laodicea at all. Being largely from the age of Philadelphia, they were into the classical ORDER of things, which enabled them to skillfully compose intelligent music rather than merely bellow out the whines and whims of the flesh. So, generally speaking, an appreciation for classical music amounts to an appreciation of PROFESSIONAL music, or an appreciation of REAL music. It is a music that moves the spiritual part of you that is SUPPOSED to be moved rather than moving the fleshy or emotional parts of you that the Laodicean devils like to move. Think of it this way: once you've experienced the authority of the King James Bible, you really aren't impressed with the NIV, the TEV, the NKJV, the ASV, or the any other modern perversion. Well, some of us have also experienced the authority of real music, and that's why we wouldn't attend a Gaither "homecoming," even if they were having it next door.

 

[santuzza]

This guy had me saying "amen" up until the last two sentences!

Most of our worship leaders today are not trained professionals, and a lot of those writing worship songs can't even read music. This does not bode well for worship today.

Oh, and I wouldn't knock the Gaithers -- though their music is technically simplistic, the message is oftentimes stirring.

 

[Nautilus]

meh this might be, but im not going around listening to classical music. ill stick with current stuff.

 

[Dino246]

So, generally speaking, an appreciation for classical music amounts to an appreciation of PROFESSIONAL music, or an appreciation of REAL music.

A child tapping and humming is real music. Professional is when you get paid for it.

It is a music that moves the spiritual part of you that is SUPPOSED to be moved rather than moving the fleshy or emotional parts of you that the Laodicean devils like to move.

Where in Scripture does it say that any particular part of us is "supposed" to be moved by music?

Think of it this way: once you've experienced the authority of the King James Bible, you really aren't impressed with the NIV, the TEV, the NKJV, the ASV, or the any other modern perversion. Well, some of us have also experienced the authority of real music, and that's why we wouldn't attend a Gaither "homecoming," even if they were having it next door.

"Authority" of the KJV? It has no more "authority" than any other translation. It has been shown to have several errors. As for the "authority of real music", that is opinionated hogwash.

 

[John146]

"Authority" of the KJV? It has no more "authority" than any other translation. It has been shown to have several errors. As for the "authority of real music", that is opinionated hogwash.

Where do you get you authority on what God hath said? If I don't have a perfect book to appeal to, then I cannot stand against this world.

 

[santuzza]

meh this might be, but im not going around listening to classical music. ill stick with current stuff.

There IS current "classical stuff." And some of it is quite good. Look up John Adams or Eric Whitacre.

[video=youtube;5LoUm_r7It8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LoUm_r7It8[/video]

 

[Dino246]

Where do you get you authority on what God hath said? If I don't have a perfect book to appeal to, then I cannot stand against this world.

I'll allow this thread to focus on music. There are enough threads on KJV-onlyism already.

 

[Tintin]

Where do you get you authority on what God hath said? If I don't have a perfect book to appeal to, then I cannot stand against this world.

Hath? LOL. It's 2016, not 1611.

 

[crossnote]

I prefer Baroque 1650-1750 over the Classical period 1750-1900. Not only the quality of sound from that period of instruments but when there was lyrics involved, they were less pietistic and more redemptive.
In other words Bach over Beethoven or Handel over Chopin any day.

 

[Nautilus]

There IS current "classical stuff." And some of it is quite good. Look up John Adams or Eric Whitacre.

if we want to go with strictly christian music ill take this or that anyday
[video=youtube;3f3sNiYpuF4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f3sNiYpuF4[/video]

 

[Nautilus]

if we want to go with secular stuff as well then im taking this:
[video=youtube;wzmi6uB2hmc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzmi6uB2hmc[/video]

 

[kaylagrl]

THE "UNSAVED COMPOSERS" ARGUMENT

Written by brother James L. Melton

​

Christians who like classical music are sometimes criticized for listening to music composed by unsaved men. In addition to overlooking the fact that some of the composers were Christians, the critic also overlooks the fact that being saved has very little to do with the quality of music that one produces. Anyone who has attended a typical gospel singing in a country church has witnessed this truth first-hand, whether he realizes it or not.


If I ever need open-heart surgery, I will be far more concerned with finding a SKILLED surgeon than with finding a spiritual one. In fact, if I am informed that the the surgeon and all his staff are Christians, yet they have never performed a surgery, then I shall look elsewhere for my surgeon. So it is with finding a good mechanic, a good plumber, a good bricklayer, or a good accountant. For that matter, some of the King James translators were probably lost. So what?
No one believes that a man is a good preacher or teacher just because he is saved, so why are the music people of modern Christianity given a pass just because they profess salvation and can carry a tune? The dirty little answer is that they oftentimes feed enough Laodicean flesh to keep the attendance and offerings up even though their musical SKILL is often found wanting or is terribly perverted.


The composers, on the other hand, were not from Laodicea at all. Being largely from the age of Philadelphia, they were into the classical ORDER of things, which enabled them to skillfully compose intelligent music rather than merely bellow out the whines and whims of the flesh. So, generally speaking, an appreciation for classical music amounts to an appreciation of PROFESSIONAL music, or an appreciation of REAL music. It is a music that moves the spiritual part of you that is SUPPOSED to be moved rather than moving the fleshy or emotional parts of you that the Laodicean devils like to move. Think of it this way: once you've experienced the authority of the King James Bible, you really aren't impressed with the NIV, the TEV, the NKJV, the ASV, or the any other modern perversion. Well, some of us have also experienced the authority of real music, and that's why we wouldn't attend a Gaither "homecoming," even if they were having it next door.

Quote...the critic also overlooks the fact that being saved has very little to do with the quality of music that one produces. " Anyone who has attended a typical gospel singing in a country church has witnessed this truth first-hand, whether he realizes it or not."

Lots of people that are "famous" today began in a little country church. From Elvis to the Oak Ridge Boys to Carrie Underwood and Justin Timberlake. Just to name a few,all started singing in church. You may not appreciate their talent but they have the fans and sales to prove your statement wrong.


Quote "No one believes that a man is a good preacher or teacher just because he is saved"...

I don't know a whole lot of good unsaved preachers,do you? I prefer mine saved thanks.


Quote "The dirty little answer is that they oftentimes feed enough Laodicean flesh to keep the attendance and offerings up even though their musical SKILL is often found wanting or is terribly perverted."

Well, isn't that tarring everyone with one brush. Judge much? So unless you are a trained singer you have no talent? Because I've heard some pretty terrible trained singers. Talent is talent. Some raw,some taught. If it comes from the heart and a relationship with Christ anything else is simply musical taste.


Quote "which enabled them to skillfully compose intelligent music rather than merely bellow out the whines and whims of the flesh"

Your are judging a singer based on style of music. If its not the style you enjoy you judge them as sinners.You don't know these people or their walk with God. Your attitude is a long way from Christlike.

Quote " It is a music that moves the spiritual part of you that is SUPPOSED to be moved rather than moving the fleshy or emotional parts of you that the Laodicean devils like to move."

Lol that is the most obnoxious,holier than thou,nonsense statement I've ever heard. So you're style and taste in music is the only right way to worship?! Ridiculous. They sang songs and psalms in the Bible unto the Lord.They weren't taught singers. Worship is personal, people enjoy different styles of music. One isn't more holy than another.

Quote " Well, some of us have also experienced the authority of real music, and that's why we wouldn't attend a Gaither "homecoming," even if they were having it next door.

If you listen to this lady you could never accuse her of " whims of the flesh".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eyVH0lbFbw


Half the songs the church sings are from the pen of Bill Gaither. Including "He Touched Me","Because He Lives", "The King is Coming","There's Something About that Name","It is Finished" to name a few. The Homecoming singers have added to the list of beautiful songs sung down through church history. Writers like Rusty Goodman,Ronnie Hinson who wrote "The Lighthouse", Ira Stanphill who wrote "He Washed My Eyes with Tears" and the Speer Family who wrote many,many songs. To diminish these people as having no talent,singing devils music only to move the flesh is an obnoxious,holier than thou,smug attitude. I know some of these people personally and their hearts are to reach people for the Lord,an unsaved composer brings glory to themselves. Your post is offensive in every way.

 

[crossnote]

i must confess, I am getting tired of the same 'ol today in most worship teams...a bass, a drum, a keyboard, a lead guitar and a vocalist that slurs the words.

 

[kaylagrl]

i must confess, I am getting tired of the same 'ol today in most worship teams...a bass, a drum, a keyboard, a lead guitar and a vocalist that slurs the words.

I grew up on Vestal Goodman, Ronnie Hinson,The Speer Family and Gathier music. I also grew up on hymns and know most by heart. Its the style I enjoy,it ministers to me. Hillsong,not really my thing. A song here and there I like but not a fan. Im not a fan of contemporary music ,for the most part. But to say they are singing in the flesh and devils music? That's totally and purely an opinion,nothing more. Its obnoxious to think only the music you like is Godly. Again,that is the OPs opinion,not Gods. It annoys me so much when people put their words in Gods mouth.

 

[kaylagrl]

THE "UNSAVED COMPOSERS" ARGUMENT

Written by brother James L. Melton

​

Christians who like classical music are sometimes criticized for listening to music composed by unsaved men. In addition to overlooking the fact that some of the composers were Christians, the critic also overlooks the fact that being saved has very little to do with the quality of music that one produces. Anyone who has attended a typical gospel singing in a country church has witnessed this truth first-hand, whether he realizes it or not.


If I ever need open-heart surgery, I will be far more concerned with finding a SKILLED surgeon than with finding a spiritual one. In fact, if I am informed that the the surgeon and all his staff are Christians, yet they have never performed a surgery, then I shall look elsewhere for my surgeon. So it is with finding a good mechanic, a good plumber, a good bricklayer, or a good accountant. For that matter, some of the King James translators were probably lost. So what?
No one believes that a man is a good preacher or teacher just because he is saved, so why are the music people of modern Christianity given a pass just because they profess salvation and can carry a tune? The dirty little answer is that they oftentimes feed enough Laodicean flesh to keep the attendance and offerings up even though their musical SKILL is often found wanting or is terribly perverted.


The composers, on the other hand, were not from Laodicea at all. Being largely from the age of Philadelphia, they were into the classical ORDER of things, which enabled them to skillfully compose intelligent music rather than merely bellow out the whines and whims of the flesh. So, generally speaking, an appreciation for classical music amounts to an appreciation of PROFESSIONAL music, or an appreciation of REAL music. It is a music that moves the spiritual part of you that is SUPPOSED to be moved rather than moving the fleshy or emotional parts of you that the Laodicean devils like to move. Think of it this way: once you've experienced the authority of the King James Bible, you really aren't impressed with the NIV, the TEV, the NKJV, the ASV, or the any other modern perversion. Well, some of us have also experienced the authority of real music, and that's why we wouldn't attend a Gaither "homecoming," even if they were having it next door.

Ahh,I get it now. Melton is affiliated with Bible Baptist Publications.We sure couldnt have emotion or raising of hands in our music.smh Some of those old stiff necked churches...I always said that there needs to be an 11th commandment for those type of churches that reads "DON'T"!! They can go to a ball game and scream and do the wave but when they get to church you could hear people blinking they're so quiet.The Bible says make a joyful noise.

 

[crossnote]

They're all good...until they start exalting themselves above the music.
From the period you mentioned I like Reba Rambo's music, today I like something along the lines of the Gettys...but I have a wide taste.

 

[kaylagrl]

They're all good...until they start exalting themselves above the music.
From the period you mentioned I like Reba Rambo's music, today I like something along the lines of the Gettys...but I have a wide taste.

I know some of the Rambos music,Dottie a prolific writer for certain. All worship should point to God. I always like the song "The Heart of Worship" I think it says it all.

When the music fades
All is stripped away
And I simply come
Longing just to bring
Something that's of worth
That will bless Your heart
I'll bring You more than a song
For a song in itself
Is not what You have required
You search much deeper within
Through the way things appear
You're looking into my heart

I'm coming back to the heart of worship
And it's all about You,
It's all about You, Jesus
I'm sorry, Lord, for the thing I've made it
When it's all about You,
It's all about You, Jesus

King of endless worth
No one could express
How much You deserve
Though I'm weak and poor
All I have is Yours
Every single breath
I'll bring You more than a song
For a song in itself
Is not what You have required
You search much deeper within
Through the way things appear
You're looking into my heart

I'm coming back to the heart of worship
And it's all about You,
It's all about You, Jesus
I'm sorry, Lord, for the thing I've made it
And it's all about You,
It's all about You, Jesus

I'm coming back to the heart of worship,
And it's all about You,
It's all about You, Jesus
I'm sorry, Lord, for the thing I've made it
And it's all about You,
It's all about You, Jesus



Micheal W Smith​

 

[sydlit]

From kaylagrl, post#12:
Quote (quoted the OP) : "No one believes that a man is a good preacher or teacher just because he is saved"...
(kayla): I don't know a whole lot of good unsaved preachers,do you? I prefer mine saved thanks.

That is such a funny, classic line, it may be the best I've read all year!!! Lol
Although, to be fair, I THINK the OP was trying to say that just because a person is saved, doesn't necessarily make them a good preacher. (I think that's what he meant. )
But I'm definitely with you on this point, kaylagrl, I don't know a whole lot of good unsaved preachers! Lol. (I don't even know that many good SAVED ones, lol) 'BUT I REALLY PREFER MY PREACHERS TO BE SAVED.' Lol.
(And the 'thanks' at the end was the perfect exclamation mark )
(Btw, I mean no offense to the OPer, 'ChosenbyHim', and I'll have to look up who James Melton is), but that line by kayla was just Tooooo funny!!!

 

[Kaycie]

That is totally ridiculous. If that were the case, we couldn't sit on chairs that weren't made by Christians, or eat food not made by Christian hands. The list would be endless.

 

[Tintin]

Don't mind him. It's just Chosen being Chosen.