Holidays - Biblical versus non-biblical

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Lost_sheep

Guest
#1
The thread about Lent got me curious but I didn't want to derail that one.

What are your thoughts regarding the observance of Biblical holidays (Passover, Feast of Unleavened Bread, First Fruits, Pentecost, Feast of Trumpets, Day of Atonement, Feast of Tabernacles) versus the traditional holidays that most of us observe but have no basis in Biblical teaching (Christmas, Easter, etc).

Regional holidays like Thanksgiving in the US or the 4th of July, I understand completely, but some of the holidays that seem like holdovers from Paganism being folded into the early Roman Catholic Church have me stumped, as does why don't Gentiles celebrate the Biblical holidays?

Thoughts?
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
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#2
The thread about Lent got me curious but I didn't want to derail that one.

What are your thoughts regarding the observance of Biblical holidays (Passover, Feast of Unleavened Bread, First Fruits, Pentecost, Feast of Trumpets, Day of Atonement, Feast of Tabernacles) versus the traditional holidays that most of us observe but have no basis in Biblical teaching (Christmas, Easter, etc).

Regional holidays like Thanksgiving in the US or the 4th of July, I understand completely, but some of the holidays that seem like holdovers from Paganism being folded into the early Roman Catholic Church have me stumped, as does why don't Gentiles celebrate the Biblical holidays?

Thoughts?
The Biblical feasts were not Holidays in the modern sense of the term. They were given to Israel for worship as part of the Law. There is nothing in the Bible to say Gentiles are supposed to keep them. They do however point to Jesus as Messiah. For that reason there is nothing wrong with observing them if one feels led to but there is no compulsion to do so. I would take issue regarding traditional holidays Easter and Christmas mark the death and resurrection and the birth of Jesus. The old Pagan argument is irelevant unless you practice Paganism. You may as well get rid of the western calendar as well and also revert to using the Lunar year.
 

ForthAngel

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2012
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#3
The Biblical feasts were not Holidays in the modern sense of the term. They were given to Israel for worship as part of the Law. There is nothing in the Bible to say Gentiles are supposed to keep them. They do however point to Jesus as Messiah. For that reason there is nothing wrong with observing them if one feels led to but there is no compulsion to do so. I would take issue regarding traditional holidays Easter and Christmas mark the death and resurrection and the birth of Jesus. The old Pagan argument is irelevant unless you practice Paganism. You may as well get rid of the western calendar as well and also revert to using the Lunar year.
I would agree to this but add that I am not a fan of the secular consumer side of Christmas and Easter. I don't like the whole santa and easter bunny thing we teach to children. Maybe it's a personal conviction, but I see it as idolatry, not to mention lying to our kids.
 
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Lost_sheep

Guest
#4
I was under the impression that Christmas was a conglomeration of the Winter Solstice and Saturnalia bright into vogue by the Catholic church to make Christianity more palatable to the pagans in the Roman Empire after Christianity was deemed the "official" religion of the empire.

I know very well what Christmas is "supposed" to signify, but where in the Bible does it say we are to honor the birth of Jesus? His death and resurrection, sure I can see that, but since he was crucified during Passover, wouldn't Passover be the appropriate time to observe and get rid of "Easter" which is Spring Equinox observation?
 

santuzza

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2013
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#5
What are your thoughts regarding the observance of Biblical holidays (Passover, Feast of Unleavened Bread, First Fruits, Pentecost, Feast of Trumpets, Day of Atonement, Feast of Tabernacles) versus the traditional holidays that most of us observe but have no basis in Biblical teaching (Christmas, Easter, etc).
I disagree that Christmas and Resurrection Sunday have no biblical basis -- both events are in the Bible, so why not celebrate them?

As for the Israelite holy days, some have been replaced -- Passover with the Lord's Supper, Pentecost with, well, NT Pentecost, The Day of Atonement is unnecessary since Jesus is our forever atonement. As for the others, well, I think if a Christian feels convicted to celebrate them then there is nothing holding them from doing so, but it's not necessary.
 

santuzza

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2013
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#6
I know very well what Christmas is "supposed" to signify, but where in the Bible does it say we are to honor the birth of Jesus?
Since the angels honored Christ's birth, why wouldn't we?
 
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Lost_sheep

Guest
#7
Okay then, let me ask this. Would it be more appropriate to make "Easter" be on the Sunday of Passover since that's when the resurrection happened? What about Christmas? There's no proof whatsoever in anything I found that the Christ child was born on the 25th of December.

I might seem like I am picking nits, but these are some of the things about Christianity that get under my skin and make it very, very difficult to move forward. Don't even get me started on 10 commandments versus 613 commandments - that one makes my head hurt too.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#9
Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hates: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear [them]. Isaiah 1:14
 
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Lost_sheep

Guest
#10
Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hates: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear [them]. Isaiah 1:14
???Really? Interesting. I'll dig through tonight, but mind giving me the Cliff Notes version as to why his soul hates them?
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#12
???Really? Interesting. I'll dig through tonight, but mind giving me the Cliff Notes version as to why his soul hates them?
The old forms have passed away. GOD is interested in righteousness, joy and peace in the spirit. So our holidays and the old festivals (translated feasts, but the literal meaning is appointed times) are irrelevant. Whatever you choose to do, do it to GOD's glory.

For the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. Romans 14:17
 
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Lost_sheep

Guest
#13
Well, I don't ask based on any interest in observing a holiday, it was just one of those nagging questions I have that I thought I'd get an answer to that wasn't off some blog in the festering recesses of the Internet with a 1995 HTML design.

I don't do holidays. Every day is a day on the calendar.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#14
???Really? Interesting. I'll dig through tonight, but mind giving me the Cliff Notes version as to why his soul hates them?
The old forms have passed away. GOD is interested in righteousness, joy and peace in the spirit. So our holidays and the old festivals (translated feasts, but the literal meaning is appointed times) are irrelevant. Whatever you choose to do, do it to GOD's glory.

For the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. Romans 14:17
I probably didn't answer your question clearly enough. GOD said he hated the festivals because Israel turned them into religious formality that was divorced from the righteousness of GOD's spirit. Their mouths were near him, but their hearts were far away.

Hypocrites! Isaiah correctly prophesied about you saying, ‘This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far, far away from me, and they worship me in vain, teaching [as] doctrines the commandments of men.’*” Matthew 15:7-9
 
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sparkman

Guest
#15
I was under the impression that Christmas was a conglomeration of the Winter Solstice and Saturnalia bright into vogue by the Catholic church to make Christianity more palatable to the pagans in the Roman Empire after Christianity was deemed the "official" religion of the empire.

I know very well what Christmas is "supposed" to signify, but where in the Bible does it say we are to honor the birth of Jesus? His death and resurrection, sure I can see that, but since he was crucified during Passover, wouldn't Passover be the appropriate time to observe and get rid of "Easter" which is Spring Equinox observation?
First, the annual holy days of Israel were shadows and types, and those are no longer applicable under the New Covenant. Colossians 2:16-17 discusses this. Compare these verses with Hebrews 10:1-2 and Hebrews 9:9-11. It is plain that these days were grouped by Paul with irrelevant things.

Second, the Old Covenant in its entirety is done away with. II Corinthians 3, Acts 15, Galatians 3 and 4, Hebrews 8 and 9, and Romans 7:1-6 covers this. The holidays, as well as the Sabbath and clean/unclean meat laws were "boundary markers" that God used to separate Israel from the Gentile nations.

Third, almost all of the claims about Easter and Christmas being "pagan" are part of the slanders that Alexander Hislop generated from his book "Two Babylons" claiming that Christianity was affected by the "Babylonian Mystery Religion" which he claimed was the worship of Nimrod, Semiramis, and Tammuz. Hislop was a moron and his work reflected his stupidity. He employed bad logic to arrive at his conclusions.

I used to be an Armstrongite who believed the propaganda that is created by Sabbath/festival/clean unclean meat guys in order to perpetuate their beliefs. They misrepresent church history in order to promote their bad doctrines.

Some books you might read on this topic are by Ralph Woodrow, who held the positions that Christmas and Easter were pagan holidays, but recanted his position due to clear evidence that he was in error (mostly caused by Hislop's book):

Ralph Woodrow Evangelistic Association

Christmas Reconsidered, Easter: Is It Pagan? and Three Days and Three Nights are the three pertinent books.

By the way, the Wednesday- Saturday crucifixion and resurrection scenario doesn't pan out. The Friday-Sunday scenario perfectly fits Scripture. The book explains the problem with the Wednesday - Saturday scenario.

Christ was crucified on the Day of Preparation, which is synonymous with Friday, and the next day was a weekly Sabbath, which was also the first day of Unleavened Bread (a high day). The word used for Sabbath in the pertinent verses is sabbaton, and sabbaton has a weekly context; it is not talking about an annual holy day. In fact, the word sabbaton is translated "week" in other verses of the Bible. For example, "mia sabbaton" is the first day of the week.

The phrase "third day" is an idiomatic Hebrewism that implies the day after tomorrow. The only verse that is out of line with this view is Matthew 12:40, and my understanding is that 'three days and three nights" is an emphatic expression of the same concept. However, even if the one verse is out of line, I'm going to go with church history.

By the way, this wasn't a question until the last few hundred years until Sabbath-keepers tried to use the argument to press the Sabbath issue.

If you are getting your information from Armstrongite groups such as Restored Church of God, United Church of God, Worldwide Church of God, Philadelphia Church of God, and Living Church of God, you are drinking from the toilet bowl of theology. I was part of them for a decade and they don't know what they are talking about. They are slanderous Christianity-haters. Some of the darker Hebrew Roots and Messianic Jew groups are basically of the same ilk.
 
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sparkman

Guest
#16
Okay then, let me ask this. Would it be more appropriate to make "Easter" be on the Sunday of Passover since that's when the resurrection happened? What about Christmas? There's no proof whatsoever in anything I found that the Christ child was born on the 25th of December.

I might seem like I am picking nits, but these are some of the things about Christianity that get under my skin and make it very, very difficult to move forward. Don't even get me started on 10 commandments versus 613 commandments - that one makes my head hurt too.
You should read the book called Sabbath in Christ by Dale Ratzlaff. It explains the difference between the New Covenant and Old Covenant very well. As an ex Sabbath/festival/clean unclean meat guy, the book helped a lot.

By the way, if you think Torah observing is the right way to go, I'd suggest that you budget a lot of money for furniture if you are married or have a daughter. Anything they sit upon during their menstrual cycle is considered to be unclean and needs to be thrown out. As well, you need to make them live outside of the home during this period, so you might need a tent. I'd also suggest that you make every woman in your church wear a T Shirt or some indication that she is menstruating so that you don't accidentally shake her hand and become unclean.

My point? Even Torah observers don't observe the full Torah. It is pick and choose, cafeteria plan Torah observance :)

The Old Covenant was given to a specific people under a theonomy in a specific land during a specific time period...it made sense for them at that time. It also had an expiration date, which is specified in Galatians 3 as being when Christ came. It ended at his death.

The Old Covenant does have spiritual and moral principles that apply, though. The specific applications to the nation of Israel don't apply, but the spiritual and moral principles are enduring. So a Spirit-led Christian can discern moral direction from them. Many of the commandments were ceremonial and ritualistic "shadows and types" which are not applicable anymore, including Sabbaths, festivals, clean and unclean meat laws, animal sacrifices and physical circumcision.
 
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sparkman

Guest
#17
By the way I wouldn't agree with all the explanations of other individuals on this thread. I find a lot of them get things confused concerning the Sabbath, Festivals, and clean/unclean meat laws. Even if I agree with the conclusions, their explanations are faulty.
 
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sparkman

Guest
#18
Here's a link to the Sabbath in Christ book by Dale Ratzlaff:

Sabbath in Christ

Dale is an ex Seventh Day Adventist pastor.

There won't be any mention of Easter and Christmas in the book though.

Personally, I don't have any issue regarding how one observes days one way or the other, but what I hate is the insinuation that other Christians are following paganism, especially since much of the misinformation comes from biased sources, namely Alexander Hislop's Two Babylons and Armstrongites.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,704
3,649
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#19
Well, I don't ask based on any interest in observing a holiday, it was just one of those nagging questions I have that I thought I'd get an answer to that wasn't off some blog in the festering recesses of the Internet with a 1995 HTML design.

I don't do holidays. Every day is a day on the calendar.
As Christians we are free to keep them or ignore them...

Romans 14:5 KJVS
[5] One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike . Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
 

santuzza

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2013
1,609
38
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#20
Would it be more appropriate to make "Easter" be on the Sunday of Passover since that's when the resurrection happened?
I think Resurrection Sunday is mostly celebrated on the Sunday after Passover -- some years it's different, but I'm not 100% sure why -- has to do with the Vernal Equinox and the full moon, but I'm not an expert at it.

What about Christmas? There's no proof whatsoever in anything I found that the Christ child was born on the 25th of December.
Nobody knows the day Christ was born. Dec 25 is as good as any other day. And, yes, I believe it is directly related to the Winter Solstice -- darkest day of the year -- and Christ comes in as the Light of the World.

Don't even get me started on 10 commandments versus 613 commandments - that one makes my head hurt too.
Then try just two commandments: Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind and Love your neighbor as yourself. These are the two Christ gave to us.