BEWARE OF ALEXANDER HISLOP AND HISLOPITES ON THE FORUM

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sparkman

Guest
#1
A lot of the anti-Christmas, anti-Easter, anti-Roman Catholic remarks on the forums come from Hislopites, who believe the teachings of Alexander Hislop, or were indoctrinated by individuals influenced by Hislop's writings.

I am definitely not pro-Roman Catholic Church, but my discussions with them center upon the Bible, and not the works of an ignoramus who distorted facts to arrive at his conclusions. Therefore I would never repeat his foolishness to a Roman Catholic to convince him that the teachings of the RCC are in error; I would make my arguments from Scripture.

I don't agree with Roman Catholic theology in regards to peculiar doctrines such as denying justification by faith alone and sola Scriptura, as well as purgatory, the sacerdotal system, perpetual virginity of Mary, the Mass, and other significant doctrinal problems. I have some Roman Catholic friends that I love and believe are born-again, and I can talk to them about some of these issues without alienating them, because I don't use poor logic and the works of ignorant men to approach them.

In addition, I know that cult members with much worse doctrine than the Roman Catholic Church use Hislop's conclusions to impugn Roman Catholicism. Chief amongst those are Armstrongites (United Church of God, Restored Church of God, Philadelphia Church of God, and Living Church of God) and Jehovah's Witnesses. Some darker Hebrew Roots Movement organizations would fall into the same category. It is ironic that wolves are identifying the RCC as a wolf, while they themselves are wolves. Bow wow.....or maybe I should say HOWL... :)

Alexander Hislop was a Scottish clergyman who wrote a book called "Two Babylons" in 1853.

The basic thesis of the book was to prove that Roman Catholicism was related to the worship of Nimrod, his nymphomaniac wife Semiramis, and their son, Tammuz (who was supposedly a reincarnation of Nimrod). By extension, Protestants are also implicated in this mixture of paganism and Christianity by many Hislopites, especially the aforementioned cults.

Generally, the accusations relate specifically to Christmas and Easter when it comes to criticisms leveled at Protestants, but include a wide variety of Roman Catholic specific practices when these criticisms are leveled against Roman Catholics.

As a former Armstrongite, Hislop's book Two Babylons was very important to forming my prejudices against Roman Catholicism and Protestants of all types. Armstrongites rejected the Christianity of all believers outside of their organization.

Alexander Hislop was probably one of the worst scholars that I've ever read. He tries to connect all of paganism to the worship of Nimrod and Semiramis, and then connect that system to the Roman Catholic Church. The logic he uses is abominable, and he misquotes references in order to make his claims. He is academically dishonest and his work has no credibility.

For instance, Nimrod and Semiramis didn't even live in the same century, so I think that rendered the possibility of them having a child pretty much to nill...I think reproduction requires two partners who exist at the same time. He claims that the Roman Catholic version of Mary was actually Semiramis, which is pretty hard to believe since Mary is considered to be a perpetual virgin and Semiramis was a nymphomaniac with many lovers. He believed that Nimrod was an ugly black man, which suggests some racial overtones, and also isn't provable due to the scant information available about Nimrod. He claims that the Babylonians practiced confession like Roman Catholics do, but the reference he gives actually relates to Greece and not Babylon. He taught that church steeples are actually phallic symbols (the male sex organ) and that church bells actually relate to testicles. I can remember believing this as an Armstrongite. I was taught that Protestants and Catholics were basically giving God the finger through these steeples attached to their churches.

Hislop clained that all pagan religion came from Nimrod and Semiramis worship. The logic he used involved finding a similarity between one pagan god and Nimrod (usually based on some poor correlation), and then finding a similarity between that pagan god and another pagan god, and assuming they were both Nimrod. By using this "method", he connected many pagan gods from all over the world to Nimrod.

The logic would be something like this:

Bill wears a red shirt and blue jeans.
Bob wears a red shirt and khakis.
Jim wears a green shirt and khakis.

Conclusion: Jim is Bill.

That's pretty much the logic Alexander Hislop used.

Like I said previously, he also misquoted his references to prove his points so he was academically dishonest.

His work has been utterly discredited. Christians of any moral caliber whatsoever should not refer to Hislop's nonsense to convince Roman Catholics that Roman Catholicism is wrong, rather, they should use Scripture to prove that Roman Catholicism is wrong.

I think that Protestants use arguments like this against Roman Catholicism because they aren't very literate in Scripture, or perhaps they themselves don't believe justification by faith alone. If that's true, they don't understand Christianity well enough to refute Roman Catholicism on the central issues between us. I would suggest reading James White's book Roman Catholic Controversy if this is the case.

Another big issue is a misunderstanding of Revelation 17. A typical misunderstanding is that the Great Prostitute is talking about the Roman Catholic Church. However, if that's true, then Protestants are the daughters of the Great Prostitute, and that doesn't bode too well for Protestants. You play right into the hands of cults when you make that claim..Armstrongites believe that both Roman Catholics and Protestants are part of "Babylon" and are both equally corrupt.

I've been researching a partial preterist view in this regard, and I'm convinced that the Great Prostitute was actually the Jewish nation, who consorted with the Romans to persecute Christians, and the book of Revelation is about the judgment of God against the Jewish nation for rejecting the Messiah. This view is more coherent than the Roman Catholic Church view. I haven't fully completed my study yet on this topic, but it is looking more coherent than what I've seen from premillennial dispensationalists.

I am pretty sure the book of Revelation was written shortly before the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in AD67-70, as the first three verses specified that these events were "soon to come"..not 1950 years or more in the future.

Anyways, regardless of your view on that, I'd encourage you to be cautious of Hislopites on the forum. You will know them because they will refer to Roman Catholicism in the context of Nimrod and Semiramis worship. Like I said, Hislop's work has been discredited and it is ridiculous. It is also condemning of much of Protestantism, as some of his comments applied to Protestant practices. So, using his reasoning basically condemns yourself if you are a Protestant.

Here's an article by Ralph Woodrow, who wrote a book called The Babylonian Connection? where he refuted Hislop's work. Before he wrote this book, he believed Two Babylons, and wrote a book that lauded it, but after he came to an understanding of its problems, he refuted his own position, much like I have done with regards to my own former association with Armstrongism.

Here's a link to the article:

The Two Babylons - Christian Research Institute

Here's a link to the Wikipedia article on Hislop:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Hislop

Here's a link to Ralph Woodrow's books if you want to buy them:

Ralph Woodrow Evangelistic Association


(quote begins)

Two Babylons by Ralph Woodrow
This article first appeared in the volume 22, number 2 (2000) issue of the Christian Research Journal. For further information or to subscribe to the Christian Research Journal go to: http://www.equip.org

In my earlier Christian experience, certain literature fell into my hands that claimed a considerable amount of Babylonian paganism had been mixed into Christianity. While the Roman Catholic Church was the primary target of this criticism, it seemed the customs and beliefs with which pagan parallels could be found had also contaminated other churches. Much of what I encountered was based on a book called The Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop (1807–1862).

Over the years The Two Babylons has impacted the thinking of many people, ranging all the way from those in radical cults (e.g., the Jehovah’s Witnesses) to very dedicated Christians who hunger for a move by God but are concerned about anything that might quench His Spirit. Its basic premise is that the pagan religion of ancient Babylon has continued to our day disguised as the Roman Catholic Church, prophesied in the Book of Revelation as “Mystery Babylon the Great” (thus, the idea of two Babylons — one ancient and one modern). Because this book is detail­ed and has a multitude of notes and references, I assumed, as did many others, it was factual. We quoted “Hislop” as an authority on paganism just as “Webster” might be quoted on word definitions.

As a young evangelist, I began to preach on the mixture of paganism with Christianity, and eventually I wrote a book based on Hislop, titled Babylon Mystery Religion (Ralph Woodrow Evangelistic Assn., 1966). In time, my book became quite popular, went through many printings, and was translated into Korean, German, Spanish, Portuguese, and several other languages. Hundreds quoted from it. Some regarded me as an authority on the subject of “pagan mixture.” Even the noted Roman Catholic writer Karl Keating said, “Its best-known proponent is Ralph Woodrow, author of Babylon Mystery Religion.”[SUP]1
[/SUP]
Many preferred my book over The Two Babylons because it was easier to read and understand. Sometimes the two books were confused with each other, and once I even had the experience of being greeted as “Reverend Hislop”! As time went on, however, I began to hear rumblings that Hislop was not a reliable historian. I heard this from a history teacher and in letters from people who heard this perspective expressed on the Bible Answer Man radio program. Even the Worldwide Church of God began to take a second look at the subject. As a result, I realized I needed to go back through Hislop’s work, my basic source, and prayerfully check it out.

As I did this, it became clear: Hislop’s “history” was often only an arbitrary piecing together of ancient myths. He claimed Nimrod was a big, ugly, deformed black man. His wife, Semiramis, was a beautiful white woman with blond hair and blue eyes. But she was a back­slider known for her immoral lifestyle, the inventor of soprano singing and the originator of priestly celibacy. He said that the Baby­lon­ians baptized in water, believing it had virtue because Nimrod and Semiramis suffered for them in water; that Noah’s son Shem killed Nimrod; that Semiramis was killed when one of her sons cut off her head, and so on. I realized that no recognized history book substantiated these and many other claims.

The subtitle for Hislop’s book is “The Papal Worship Proved to Be the Worship of Nimrod and His Wife.” Yet when I went to refer­ence works such as the Encyclopedia Britannica, The Americana, The Jewish Encyclopedia, The Catholic Encyclopedia, The Worldbook Encyclopedia – carefully reading their articles on “Nimrod” and “Semiramis” — not one said anything about Nimrod and Semiramis being husband and wife. They did not even live in the same century. Nor is there any basis for Semiramis being the mother of Tammuz. I realized these ideas were all Hislop’s inventions.

If we sought to base an argument about George Washington and his wife, we should at least start out with facts. We could show who George Washington was, that he had a wife named Martha, when they lived, and continue from there. But if no historian was certain who George Washington was, or if he even had a wife, or when they lived, this would not be a sound basis on which to prove anything. Such is the inherent weakness of Hislop’s thesis that papal worship is the worship of Nimrod and his wife.

I saw that a more direct and valid argument against errors in the Roman Catholic Church (or any other group) is the Bible itself, not ancient mythology. For ex­ample, the Bible speaks of a minister being “the husband of but one wife” and that “for­bid­ding people to marry” is a doctrine of devils (1 Tim. 3:2; 4:3). This provides a strong­er argument against priestly celibacy than trying to show that ancient priests of Semiramis castrated themselves.

While seeking to condemn the paganism of Roman Catholicism, Hislop produced his own myths. By so doing, he theorized that Nimrod, Adonis, Apollo, Attes, Baal-zebub, Bacchus, Cupid, Dagon, Hercules, Januis, Linus, Lucifer, Mars, Merodach, Mithra, Moloch, Narcissus, Oannes, Odin, Orion, Osiris, Pluto, Saturn, Teitan, Typhon, Vulcan, Wodan, and Zoroaster were all one and the same. By mixing myths, Hislop supposed that Semiramis was the wife of Nimrod and was the same as Aphrodite, Artemis, Astarte, Aurora, Bellona, Ceres, Diana, Easter, Irene, Iris, Juno, Mylitta, Proserpine, Rhea, Venus, and Vesta.

Take enough names, enough stories, and enough centuries; translate from one language to another; and a careless writer of the future might pass on all kinds of misinformation. Gerald Ford, an American president, might be confused with Henry Ford, the car manufacturer. Abraham Lincoln might end up as the inventor of the automobile, the proof being that many cars had the name “Lincoln.” The maiden name of Billy Graham’s wife is Bell. She has sometimes gone by the name Ruth Bell Graham. The inventor of the telephone was Alexander Graham Bell. By mixing up names, someone might end up saying Billy Graham was the inventor of the telephone; or that he invented Graham Crackers. In fact, the inventor of Graham Crackers was Sylvester Graham. Again, similarities could be pointed out. Both men were named Graham. Both men were ministers. But the differences make a real difference: Sylvester was a Presbyterian and Billy a Baptist, and they were from different generations.

Building on similarities while ignoring differences is an unsound practice. Atheists have long used this method in an attempt to discredit Christianity altogether, citing examples of pagans who had similar beliefs about universal floods, slain and risen saviors, virgin mothers, heavenly ascensions, holy books, and so on.

As Christians, we don’t reject prayer just because pagans pray to their gods. We don’t reject water baptism just because ancient tribes plunged into water as a religious ritual. We don’t reject the Bible just because pagans believe their writings are holy or sacred.

The Bible mentions things like kneeling in prayer, raising hands, taking off shoes on holy ground, a holy mountain, a holy place in the temple, pillars in front of the temple, offering sacrifices without blemish, a sacred ark, cities of refuge, bringing forth water from a rock, laws written on stone, fire appearing on a person’s head, horses of fire, and the offering of first fruits. Yet, at one time or another, similar things were known among pagans. Does this make the Bible pagan? Of course not!

If finding a pagan parallel provides proof of paganism, the Lord Himself would be pagan. The woman called Mystery Babylon had a cup in her hand; the Lord has a cup in His hand (Ps. 75:8). Pagan kings sat on thrones and wore crowns; the Lord sits on a throne and wears a crown (Rev. 1:4; 14:14). Pagans worshiped the sun; the Lord is the “Sun of righteousness” (Mal. 4:2). Pagan gods were likened to stars; the Lord is called “the bright and Morning star” (Rev. 22:16). Pagan gods had temples dedicated to them; the Lord has a temple (Rev. 7:15). Pagans built a high tower in Babylon; the Lord is a high tower (2 Sam. 22:3). Pagans worshiped idolatrous pillars; the Lord appeared as a pillar of fire (Exod. 13: 21–22). Pagan gods were pictured with wings; the Lord is pictured with wings (Ps. 91:4).

(quote ends)
 
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sparkman

Guest
#2
Article Continued..

(quote)

I realized that citing a similarity does not provide proof. There must be a legitimate connection. Let’s suppose on May 10 a man was stabbed to death in Seattle. There were strong reasons for believing a certain person did it. He had motive. He was physically strong. He owned a large knife. He had a criminal record. He was known to have a violent temper and had threatened the victim in the past. All of these things would connect him to the murder, except for one thing: on May 10 he was not in Seattle; he was in Florida. So it is with the claims that are made about pagan origins. They may appear to have a connection, but on investigation, often there is no connection at all.

Because Hislop wrote in the mid-1800s, the books he refers to or quotes are now quite old. I made considerable effort to find these old books and to check Hislop’s references; books such as Layard’s Nineveh and Its Remains, Kitto’s Cyclopedia of Biblical Literature, Wilkinson’s Ancient Egyptians, as well as old editions of Pausanias, Pliny, Tacitus, Herodotus, and many more. When I checked his footnote references, in numerous cases I discovered they do not support his claims.

Hislop says, for example, that the “round” wafer used in the Roman Catholic mass came from Egyptian paganism. For this he cites a statement in Wilkinson’s Ancient Egyptians (vol. 5, 353, 365) about the use of thin round cakes on their altars. When I checked Wilkinson’s work, however, he also said the Egyptians used oval and triangular cakes; folded cakes; cakes shaped like leaves, animals, and a crocodile’s head; and so on. Hislop failed to even mention this.

While condemning round communion wafers as images of the sun-god Baal, Hislop fails to mention that the very manna given by the Lord was round. “Upon the face of the wilderness there lay a small round thing….And Moses said unto them, This is the bread which the Lord hath given you to eat” (Exod. 16:14–15, KJV, emphasis added). Round is not necessarily pagan.

Hislop taught that Tammuz (whom he says was Nimrod) was born on December 25, and this is the origin of the date on which Christmas is observed. Yet his supposed proof for this is taken out of context. Having taught that Isis and her infant son Horus were the Egyptian version of Semiramis and her son Tammuz, he cites a reference that the son of Isis was born “about the time of the winter solstice.” When we actually look up the reference he gives for this (Wilkin­son’s Ancient Egyptians, vol. 4, 405), the son of Isis who was born “about the time of the winter solstice” was not Horus, her older son, but Harpocrates. The reference also explains this was a premature birth, causing him to be lame, and that the Egyptians celebrated the feast of his mother’s delivery in spring. Taken in context, this has nothing to do with a December celebration or with Christmas as it is known today.

In another appeal to Wilkinson, Hislop says that a Lent of 40 days was observed in Egypt. But when we look up the reference, Wilkinson says Egyptian fasts “lasted from seven to forty-two days, and sometimes even a longer period: during which time they abstained entirely from animal food, from herbs and vegetables, and above all from the indulgence of the passions” (Wilkinson, Ancient Egyptians, vol. 1, 278). With as much credibility, we could say they fasted 7 days, 10 days, 12 days, or 42 days. Hislop’s claim appears to have validity only because he used partial information.

If we based claims on partial information, we could even prove from the Bible there is no God: “…‘There is no God’” (Ps. 14:1). When the entire statement is read, however, it has a different meaning: “The fool says in his heart, ‘There is no God.’”

For these and many other reasons, I pulled my own book, Babylon Mystery Religion, out of print despite its popularity. This was not done because I was being threatened in any way or persecuted. This decision was made because of conviction, not compromise. While my original book did contain some valid information, I could not in good conscience continue to publish a book against pagan mixture knowing that it contained a mixture itself of misinformation about Babylonian origins.

I have since replaced this book with The Babylon Connection? a 128-page book with 60 illustrations and 400 footnote references. It is an appeal to all my brothers and sisters in Christ who feel that finding Babylonian origins for present-day customs or beliefs is of great importance. My advice, based on my own experience, is to move cautiously in this area, lest we major on minors. If there are things in our lives or churches that are indeed pagan or displeasing to the Lord, they should be dealt with, of course. But in attempting to defuse the confusion of Babylon, we must guard against creating a new “Babylon” (confusion) of our own making.

(end of quote)
 
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Lost_sheep

Guest
#3
Wow, you certainly went off on a tirade all because I asked a question out of pure curiosity. Thank you for showing your stripes though, and welcome to my ignore list.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
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#4
A while back someone asked what "baptism" meant in Greek. I gave an honest answer, quoting Bauer, the premier Greek lexicon, and relating it to the Jewish cleansing bath, called the Mikvah.

That person (I honestly don't remember who!) came back and said that no, baptism was an invention of the RCC in the 4th century. Except the word exists in some of the earliest manuscripts from 100-300 AD. Well, before the RCC was formed.

Well, you just can't argue with stupid, can you?

I've also heard all this other stuff, and just wondered if the people quoting about Nimrod etc actually had ever studied ancient history?

I guess I will continue to look at the Bible, and for external sources, those which are reliable and there are many manuscripts in existence. I don't like reading those kind of conspiracy type of books, anyway.
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
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#5
A while back someone asked what "baptism" meant in Greek. I gave an honest answer, quoting Bauer, the premier Greek lexicon, and relating it to the Jewish cleansing bath, called the Mikvah.

That person (I honestly don't remember who!) came back and said that no, baptism was an invention of the RCC in the 4th century. Except the word exists in some of the earliest manuscripts from 100-300 AD. Well, before the RCC was formed.

Well, you just can't argue with stupid, can you?

I've also heard all this other stuff, and just wondered if the people quoting about Nimrod etc actually had ever studied ancient history?

I guess I will continue to look at the Bible, and for external sources, those which are reliable and there are many manuscripts in existence. I don't like reading those kind of conspiracy type of books, anyway.
Hi Angela,

I think you will just have to throw your Bauer/BADG/BDAG (I lose track lol) out the window... its obvious the conspiracy has it right :p
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,780
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#6
Hi Angela,

I think you will just have to throw your Bauer/BADG/BDAG (I lose track lol) out the window... its obvious the conspiracy has it right :p
Not happening! I paid too much money for that Lexicon. Now I find out "Accordance" has the whole book and other books in its program. But I think that is a LOT of money.
 
May 15, 2013
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#7
Jeremiah 10:“Do not learn the ways of the nations or be terrified by signs in the heavens,
though the nations are terrified by them.
3 For the practices of the peoples are worthless;
they cut a tree out of the forest,
and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel.
4 They adorn it with silver and gold;
they fasten it with hammer and nails
so it will not totter.
5 Like a scarecrow in a cucumber field,
their idols cannot speak;
they must be carried
because they cannot walk.


Acts 6:1 [ The Choosing of the Seven ] In those days when the number of disciples was increasing, the Hellenistic Jews among them complained against the Hebraic Jews because their widows were being overlooked in the daily distribution of food.



God doesn't care about what celebrations someone celebrates, as long as it is kept holy and done in His name. But if it is celebrated with acts of being selfish and which selfish is an unholy act, and then its has become unclean.



Leviticus 19:9 “‘When you reap the harvest of your land, do not reap to the very edges of your field or gather the gleanings of your harvest. 10 Do not go over your vineyard a second time or pick up the grapes that have fallen. Leave them for the poor and the foreigner. I am the Lord your God.

Matthew 25:35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’


37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’


40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

Luke 14:12 Then Jesus said to his host, “When you give a luncheon or dinner, do not invite your friends, your brothers or sisters, your relatives, or your rich neighbors; if you do, they may invite you back and so you will be repaid. But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind,

Acts 4:32 All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had. 33 With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them all

Haggai 1:4 “Is it a time for you yourselves to be living in your paneled houses, while this house remains a ruin?”
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
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#8
Honestly, I've only seen The Two Babylons mentioned once or twice on this forum.
 
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sparkman

Guest
#9
Wow, you certainly went off on a tirade all because I asked a question out of pure curiosity. Thank you for showing your stripes though, and welcome to my ignore list.
I'm not sure what you're talking about...I remember your username concerning some question. I've seen more than one Hislopite remark lately..
 
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sparkman

Guest
#10
Honestly, I've only seen The Two Babylons mentioned once or twice on this forum.
I saw a few remarks in the last few days..one of them related to accusing Roman Catholics of Semiramis worship.

Underneath a lot of the anti-holiday jabs are accusations that Christians have absorbed paganism into the faith, and this comes largely from Hislop's influence.
 
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sparkman

Guest
#11
Wow, you certainly went off on a tirade all because I asked a question out of pure curiosity. Thank you for showing your stripes though, and welcome to my ignore list.
If someone would tell Lost_sheep that I just vaguely remember some dialogue between me and them, I'd appreciate it. My thread probably wasn't even related to them. The main two posts were someone who commented about Roman Catholicism and Semiramis worship, and another person concerning Easter that I've had a long standing dialogue with :)

I also know Armstrongites quote Hislop a lot to make their accusations toward the rest of Christianity being a counterfeit form of Christianity which absorbed paganism. In doing this, they proclaim themselves to be the true faith.

He/she must be the sensitive type..welcome to the forums :)
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#12
I saw a few remarks in the last few days..one of them related to accusing Roman Catholics of Semiramis worship.

Underneath a lot of the anti-holiday jabs are accusations that Christians have absorbed paganism into the faith, and this comes largely from Hislop's influence.
One does not need Hislop to see clearly that the roman catholic church is a paganized form of Christianity.. I have not studied two babylons I have heard of it, and seen it quoted..

One must be careful. Not everyone who believes in predestination is a calvanist. Not everyone who thinks Rome is pagan, is a hislop follower..
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#13
If someone would tell Lost_sheep that I just vaguely remember some dialogue between me and them, I'd appreciate it. My thread probably wasn't even related to them. The main two posts were someone who commented about Roman Catholicism and Semiramis worship, and another person concerning Easter that I've had a long standing dialogue with :)

I also know Armstrongites quote Hislop a lot to make their accusations toward the rest of Christianity being a counterfeit form of Christianity which absorbed paganism. In doing this, they proclaim themselves to be the true faith.

He/she must be the sensitive type..welcome to the forums :)

bump.. for lost sheep

anyway, That's why I hate talking about past men..Why can we just not stick with the word..
 
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sparkman

Guest
#14
One does not need Hislop to see clearly that the roman catholic church is a paganized form of Christianity.. I have not studied two babylons I have heard of it, and seen it quoted..

One must be careful. Not everyone who believes in predestination is a calvanist. Not everyone who thinks Rome is pagan, is a hislop follower..
I don't think it's paganism. I believe it's an artificial form of the Old Covenant priesthood. It is more like the Galatians heresy than anything else...adding works to salvation. Ironically, a lot of the legalistic groups attack Roman Catholicism but are more similar to them than they understand, by insinuating the Old Covenant is still in effect. These same legalistic groups deny salvation by faith alone themselves.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#15
I don't think it's paganism. I believe it's an artificial form of the Old Covenant priesthood. It is more like the Galatians heresy than anything else...adding works to salvation. Ironically, a lot of the legalistic groups attack Roman Catholicism but are more similar to them than they understand, by insinuating the Old Covenant is still in effect. These same legalistic groups deny salvation by faith alone themselves.
I agree, Many of the reformed are just daughters of rome.. And still preach a works based gospel.

I disagree.. Rome looks nothing like a pharisaical church. I see some protestant churches like that, but not Rome.

Rome is pagan.

Mother/son worship as well as mother of God, queen of heaven are ancient pagan beliefs,, We have that transferred to Christian church with the worship of mary And there are many many more, and yes, some protestant churches still hold mary as queen of heaven, mother of God.. so I agree with you that many of them are like her.
 
Feb 1, 2014
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#16
Here's a good video on the follies of Alexander Hislop and his book, The Two Babylons:

https://youtu.be/8s2mA1sp1K0?list=PLpp6gpADZmIstDXlsIqHnW2LJV8fss55q

This book is often used by many "Torah observers", Sabbath keepers, cultists, and atheists to make false claims about Christianity being a pagan form of the true faith. Many have been indirectly influenced by its teachings, even though they have never read the book.

The book basically claimed that Roman Catholicism is, in fact, the worship of Nimrod and Semiramis, and is a modern form of the Babylonian Mystery religion.

Sabbathkeepers, cultists and atheists don't stop there, though..they apply the same accusations to Protestants as "daughters of the Great Prostitute" (referring to Revelation 17). This is all part of their conspiracy theory view of the Church.

Hislop's book has been academically discredited due to his poor reasoning, poor citations of source materials, and historical inaccuracy.

https://youtu.be/8s2mA1sp1K0?list=PLpp6gpADZmIstDXlsIqHnW2LJV8fss55q
 
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Feb 1, 2014
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#17
Honestly, I've only seen The Two Babylons mentioned once or twice on this forum.
The book influenced a lot of Sabbath/Torah Observer types, as well as atheists...who taught others..who taught others. The fundamental presuppositions are based on it, even though the source of the presuppositions are not known to them.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
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#18
His-slopiness was anti-RCC for sure - I think some of his conclusions have some merit - I've had his book for over 30 years, not read it for years either,
 
Feb 1, 2014
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#19
His-slopiness was anti-RCC for sure - I think some of his conclusions have some merit - I've had his book for over 30 years, not read it for years either,
I have one too..somewhere near the National Enquirer stack :)
 
Feb 28, 2016
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#20
you'd be surprised at what a 're-read' at this time will 'tell'...

lots right here, right now...:rolleyes::eek: