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Let me make it clear.
Eschatology is NEVER something you can lose your salvation over! At best, it is an educated guess, as much as everyone in all the various camps might protest.
I am amil, because it best fits the Greek. I have read many scholarly books, and my conclusion, is that there is no rapture, and somewhere in the world, Christians are living in tribulation.
I find the North American fantasy that somehow Christians (meaning me, myself and I) should not have to suffer, absolutely selfish and unblblical. There are people at this very moment in prison and being tortured for their faith. How absolutely self centered to think that we should escape tribulation, when Jesus is clear we will not.
"These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.” John 16:33 NKJV
Also please find the word "rapture" in the Bible. It is a bad translation from a Latin word. It does not exist in Greek, and any translation that tries to make it say that is supporting an agenda, not actually being faithful to the Word of God.
But since you didn't want to argue specifics, I will just say I get so tired of this nonsense about the pre-trib rapture, and the tribulation. It is a recent invention of Darby and Scofield and their ilk, not historical, and certainly not biblical.
Eschatology is NEVER something you can lose your salvation over! At best, it is an educated guess, as much as everyone in all the various camps might protest.
I am amil, because it best fits the Greek. I have read many scholarly books, and my conclusion, is that there is no rapture, and somewhere in the world, Christians are living in tribulation.
I find the North American fantasy that somehow Christians (meaning me, myself and I) should not have to suffer, absolutely selfish and unblblical. There are people at this very moment in prison and being tortured for their faith. How absolutely self centered to think that we should escape tribulation, when Jesus is clear we will not.
"These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.” John 16:33 NKJV
Also please find the word "rapture" in the Bible. It is a bad translation from a Latin word. It does not exist in Greek, and any translation that tries to make it say that is supporting an agenda, not actually being faithful to the Word of God.
But since you didn't want to argue specifics, I will just say I get so tired of this nonsense about the pre-trib rapture, and the tribulation. It is a recent invention of Darby and Scofield and their ilk, not historical, and certainly not biblical.
J
Well as long as we don't gather together in Brooklyn 
We are promised tribulation and should expect it, even like what is going on in the Middle East and Africa.
But none of what we have witnessed will come close to what goes on in Revelation.
We are promised tribulation and should expect it, even like what is going on in the Middle East and Africa.
But none of what we have witnessed will come close to what goes on in Revelation.
E
Now see. you said this to be nice (I think) yet you were very demeaning.
I myself happen to find Amil not only anti-biblical. but anti God (it takes prophesy, and makes an allegory of it. which goes against the purpose of prophesy. to prove God is the one true God. because he can prophesy to the day specific events in the future, and they come true. Unlike prophets of men, which can allegorise or symbolize things, and we can make it appear like they come true.
While I agree 100 % This is not a salvic issue.. And many of my brothers and sisters believe the way you do.
ps. You think Darby made it up. I think rome made up amil and it is certainly not biblical.
PSS. "Tribulation" and a "great tribulation such has never been seen on earth, nor shall ever be seen after' are not the same. Of course Christians suffer tribulation. that does not mean we are in the "great tribulation"
I myself happen to find Amil not only anti-biblical. but anti God (it takes prophesy, and makes an allegory of it. which goes against the purpose of prophesy. to prove God is the one true God. because he can prophesy to the day specific events in the future, and they come true. Unlike prophets of men, which can allegorise or symbolize things, and we can make it appear like they come true.
While I agree 100 % This is not a salvic issue.. And many of my brothers and sisters believe the way you do.
ps. You think Darby made it up. I think rome made up amil and it is certainly not biblical.
PSS. "Tribulation" and a "great tribulation such has never been seen on earth, nor shall ever be seen after' are not the same. Of course Christians suffer tribulation. that does not mean we are in the "great tribulation"
J
Why butt out? There will be one less pre-tribber on this thread if I do .
.
J
No! I'm butting out of the usual rapture debate, would never tell you to do that! You really have been Googling Reverend Ike too much.
That is, this is an open forum. What people do with the thread, if it's a good chili recipe, that's fine with me. Really. I posted the thread, don't own it.
Good old boy said, "What I see here is a failure to communicate." He prophesied ChristianChat.
That is, this is an open forum. What people do with the thread, if it's a good chili recipe, that's fine with me. Really. I posted the thread, don't own it.
Good old boy said, "What I see here is a failure to communicate." He prophesied ChristianChat.
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E
In which age to we see the tribby tribble dibble prepast post mid dibble happen?
(ww1 and ww2 were the worst tribulations this earth has ever seen, Yet all flesh on earth was not really in anger of being killed off, so it must yet be future)
Does it really matter whether the ‘rapture’ (a misnomer) occurs before or after the 'tribulation'? Jesus told His disciples that the time of tribulation would be as in the days of Noah (Matt. 24:35-39). Noah was not taken out of the world during it’s judgment, but provided the means by which to survive it. But that was dependent upon Noah being obedient and faithful to prepare for it as the Lord instructed. Suppose that, having been warned of the coming flood and told to build the ark, Noah decided that it wasn't important, ‘God will save me from it’, and he didn't build the boat. Maybe God would have enabled Noah to dog paddle for those 40-plus days. Or maybe ol’ Noah would have drowned with the rest. Mankind was, after all, being judged for disbelief and disobedience.
Jesus taught us to expect judgment and tribulation, and there's a multiple of verses that back that up. Think about what will come: war, famine, disease, crippling pollution, lawlessness, mass earth upheavals, yada yada yada. If we expect to have to survive it all we’ll need to be prepared. So how might God have us prepare for this? Suppose He wants us to stockpile food, water, and medical supplies. That may not be so easy to get our cooperation with if we don’t think we’re going to be around to need it. God told Noah to build a boat; maybe He’ll tell you to buy a bus. How we view the timing of the ‘rapture’ will make a BIG difference in how willing we are respond to what God would have us do to physically prepare for the judgment He tells us we’re going to see.
And more importantly – it will affect how we’ll respond to be spiritually prepared. Jesus said that evil will increase, that we will be hated, persecuted, betrayed by friends and family, and hauled off to be killed. It is little wonder that He also said many of us will turn away from Him. Duh. Like the seed planted amid the rocks, and when the heat’s on those who are not prepared will not be strong enough to stand - much less fight back. End time prophecies show spiritual persecution and warfare on levels unseen since Old Testament times. Those who aren't trained and versed in such things are going to get slaughtered, or worse, turn away.
In 2 Thessalonians 2:3, Paul talks about the coming of the Lord and our gathering to Him, and he says that day will not come until after the apostasy (which is the mass turning away from and rejection of God) and the ‘antichrist’ is revealed. Everyone knows about the ‘antichrist’, but few know about the apostasy. Paul put them on an equal footing.
Jesus says it’s going to happen, that we will see it happen, and that we need to be prepared for it or we will fail Him!!!
Sorry. It’s just really important that we all understand the importance of this issue.
Because satan will tell any lie he can to keep us unprepared.
Jesus taught us to expect judgment and tribulation, and there's a multiple of verses that back that up. Think about what will come: war, famine, disease, crippling pollution, lawlessness, mass earth upheavals, yada yada yada. If we expect to have to survive it all we’ll need to be prepared. So how might God have us prepare for this? Suppose He wants us to stockpile food, water, and medical supplies. That may not be so easy to get our cooperation with if we don’t think we’re going to be around to need it. God told Noah to build a boat; maybe He’ll tell you to buy a bus. How we view the timing of the ‘rapture’ will make a BIG difference in how willing we are respond to what God would have us do to physically prepare for the judgment He tells us we’re going to see.
And more importantly – it will affect how we’ll respond to be spiritually prepared. Jesus said that evil will increase, that we will be hated, persecuted, betrayed by friends and family, and hauled off to be killed. It is little wonder that He also said many of us will turn away from Him. Duh. Like the seed planted amid the rocks, and when the heat’s on those who are not prepared will not be strong enough to stand - much less fight back. End time prophecies show spiritual persecution and warfare on levels unseen since Old Testament times. Those who aren't trained and versed in such things are going to get slaughtered, or worse, turn away.
In 2 Thessalonians 2:3, Paul talks about the coming of the Lord and our gathering to Him, and he says that day will not come until after the apostasy (which is the mass turning away from and rejection of God) and the ‘antichrist’ is revealed. Everyone knows about the ‘antichrist’, but few know about the apostasy. Paul put them on an equal footing.
Jesus says it’s going to happen, that we will see it happen, and that we need to be prepared for it or we will fail Him!!!
Sorry. It’s just really important that we all understand the importance of this issue.
Because satan will tell any lie he can to keep us unprepared.
[HR][/HR]
J
Anyway, you who hold a view there's no time of Jacob's trouble coming, no rapture before this time, you can't pray as the Lord Jesus instructed. It seems that could be a very serious problem. You can't always, even ever, pray this, as you don't believe in that escape of all these things that are going to come upon the world the Lord taught. A post-tribber need not be ready today, rather could think to skate, until getting an antichrist warning. Who's really prepared and teaching to be always prepared? Could there be some foolish virgins thing going on there? That's all.
Luke 21:34-36 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
Luke 21:34-36 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.