Healing: A Question to Ponder

[crossnote]

Ok...good point...let's use scripture as our guide ...

Show me in the life on Jesus on this earth where Christ puts sickness on people to teach them things....He is the exact representation of the Father's nature.

Show me Christ's life here on this earth telling people that He wants them sick to teach them something?

Show me the scripture where Jesus on this earth displaying and doing the will of the Father puts sickness on people.

Sin is the source of sickness. He has healed my mind, it's my body that lacks behind

Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.
(2Ti 4:20)

Yet I supposed it necessary to send to you Epaphroditus, my brother, and companion in labour, and fellowsoldier, but your messenger, and he that ministered to my wants. For he longed after you all, and was full of heaviness, because that ye had heard that he had been sick. For indeed he was sick nigh unto death: but God had mercy on him; and not on him only, but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow.
(Php 2:25-27)

 

[phil36]

As far as healing goes.....it is the will of the Father for all of us to be well physically...but some don't get healed..why?

...the same way some people get saved and others don't when the gospel is preached to them.....but some do get saved...

our outer body is getting older and thank God we will get a new one some day..but sickness is not from God.

All who came to Jesus were healed..

You never see Jesus saying to those who came to Him:

1)..I can't heal you today as you have sin in your life....

2) No healing for you until you repent of hating your mother-in-law

3) No can do..no healing for you...you have a generational curse that needs to be taken care of first.

4) Definitely I will NOT heal you - as the Father wants to "teach" you something

All these above are man-made traditions and religious beliefs not grounded on the word of God. We cannot make our experience change what Jesus did in His life here on earth to reveal the heart and will of our good, loving Father.

Jesus did the will of the Father. God does not cause sickness to happen but He sure can prove His love and grace for us in every situation when we are attacked.

We will find out when we meet Him why some weren't healed but we cannot go by experience to validate whether what scripture says is true or not.


Jesus is perfect theology:

Jesus is the exact representation of the Father. Jesus said no one knows my Father. So, whatever understanding of God we get from the Old Covenant that doesn't line up with Jesus' manifestation of the Father will be inaccurate.

Hebrews 1:1-3 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

Yep we Know Jesus is perfect God's - word (theology) but in our use og theology it is our study of it.

What does all of scripture say about the Kingdom of God..narrow it down, what does the NT say about God's Kingdom and what is the significance of the Kingdom in the synoptic gospels?

So when WOF/Health & wealth preachers tlk about this 'already healing', in the context of the Kingdom in the NT text what do they have to say? Another point is what is their anthropology from scripture or their theology proper so and son.

You see you didnt read the bible and come to these conclusions yourself, you were taught them.. My advice is to read the theology behind the health and wealth, and then compare it with basically what has normally been held as true.. you may well still hold to a WOF/health-wealth belief (Which is a false gospel), but atleast you would be more informed.

 

[Grace777x70]

Sometimes the manifestations of the Spirit come into play and I have seen many get healed by the gifts of the Spirit in operation. The gifts of healings...the working of miracles and the gift of faith. They had no faith at all...lol

God is sovereign and why He moves in one person's life by the gifts of the Spirit and not in others is a mystery...to me anyway..

Healing is definitely in the gospel of Christ.

Faith is a factor. With faith God may still have other plans ... like the dozens your affliction experiences have helped.

But the flip side is, that God may have plans to heal somebody, but a lack of faith stops them from receiving it.

With faith you MAY be healed. Without faith it just ain't ever going to happen.

 

[Grace777x70]

Thanks for your exhortation but I believe I will stick with what scripture says...

Yep we Know Jesus is perfect God's - word (theology) but in our use og theology it is our study of it.

What does all of scripture say about the Kingdom of God..narrow it down, what does the NT say about God's Kingdom and what is the significance of the Kingdom in the synoptic gospels?

So when WOF/Health & wealth preachers tlk about this 'already healing', in the context of the Kingdom in the NT text what do they have to say? Another point is what is their anthropology from scripture or their theology proper so and son.

You see you didnt read the bible and come to these conclusions yourself, you were taught them.. My advice is to read the theology behind the health and wealth, and then compare it with basically what has normally been held as true.. you may well still hold to a WOF/health-wealth belief (Which is a false gospel), but atleast you would be more informed.

 

[Depleted]

CN, I pray for healing every single dang day.. I may receive it in the form of pills and shots that take FOREVER to work, and doctors, but NEVER from JESUS touching me and healing me. Why does he use doctors to do what he can do himself?

Miracle means something that can't "naturally" happen, but it happened anyway. We know even nature happens because of God, but he set stuff in motion and much of it continues the same way with his overall "laws of nature." That doesn't mean he doesn't use natural ways, like doctors, too, but if it is his will you get healed, then it will be officially classified as "miracle." (And then all the laws change when the New Heaven and New Earth come along and we spend eternity with him.)

I tend to classify us as the "not likely" crowd. It's not likely God will heal us in these bodies. It's still possible it is his will. If'n that happens, we get to enjoy the look of doubt and surprise in all our doctors' eyes. lol

In the meantime, I won't waste my time believing the next version from the next person who thinks it is our fault we are disabled and if we just do A + B + a little C with a side of D all perfectly right, then we can twist God's wrist and force him. Been there, did that, lost a lot of money in the process. (Hey, not all of them are Christians, but they still have their angles that sounded good at the time of desperation.)

 

[Grace777x70]

You have no behind?....now that is not good at all!

( and you have no scripture to "back" up what was asked about Jesus )...

Sin is the source of sickness. He has healed my mind, it's my body that lacks behind

Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.
(2Ti 4:20)

Yet I supposed it necessary to send to you Epaphroditus, my brother, and companion in labour, and fellowsoldier, but your messenger, and he that ministered to my wants. For he longed after you all, and was full of heaviness, because that ye had heard that he had been sick. For indeed he was sick nigh unto death: but God had mercy on him; and not on him only, but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow.
(Php 2:25-27)

 

[phil36]

Thanks for your exhortation but I believe I will stick with what scripture says...

Thats the problem. you havent.. Just blindly following the WOF/Health and welth false gospel. Even the worst of cults can post scripture in their defence. and WOF etc is a cult in the form of a movement.

 

[Depleted]

​I wish his "means" worked a little faster..lol.. And what's the sense in healing me AFTER I die? I'll have an eternal, sinless, pain free body by then and won't need healing..

It will make sense when we get there. (See through glass darkly.)

 

[Grace777x70]

okie dokie...

Thats the problem. you havent.. Just blindly following the WOF/Health and welth false gospel. Even the worst of cults can post scripture in their defence. and WOF etc is a cult in the form of a movement.

 

[Depleted]

The body of flesh profiteth little. Better to enter into heaven halt than to be whole and be cast into the lake of fire.

This would work if I didn't know the third choice, walk into heaven healthy and fit.

 

[crossnote]

Sin is the source of sickness. He has healed my mind, it's my body that lags behind

You have no behind?....now that is not good at all!

( and you have no scripture to "back" up what was asked about Jesus )...

Fixed it thanks.
What was asked about Jesus?

 

[Grace777x70]

That answers my questions about Jesus?......because someone was sick....that is supposed to disprove Jesus' life on this earth showing us the Father's exact nature and will?

Let's try this again...

let's use scripture as our guide ...

Show me in the life on Jesus on this earth where Christ puts sickness on people to teach them things....He is the exact representation of the Father's nature.

Show me Christ's life here on this earth telling people that He wants them sick to teach them something?

Show me the scripture where Jesus on this earth displaying and doing the will of the Father puts sickness on people.

Sin is the source of sickness. He has healed my mind, it's my body that lacks behind

Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.
(2Ti 4:20)

Yet I supposed it necessary to send to you Epaphroditus, my brother, and companion in labour, and fellowsoldier, but your messenger, and he that ministered to my wants. For he longed after you all, and was full of heaviness, because that ye had heard that he had been sick. For indeed he was sick nigh unto death: but God had mercy on him; and not on him only, but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow.
(Php 2:25-27)

 

[JosephsDreams]

We need faith. It can be tough to practice. What you wrote, I think, aligns to the word.
God can be mysterious in what He does. Who can fully know His mind?
I have found it is best to have faith, and at the same time be pro active.
God gives us the soil, and the seeds. We need to plant and harvest.
Follow a lifestyle as close to what God originally intended for us.
We can not continually violate God's physical laws and expect results adverse to our actions. God can do a Miracle, erase years of physical abuse, but they are laws, and often He won't break His own laws, even though He is under no compunction to follow them.
Be prayful of what medical treatments you submit your body to.
We have great technology, and the medical field continue to advance.
They have saved millions of lives, and improved the quality of many more.
But, the body, through God's infinite wisdom, also has amazing biological remedial capabilities.
In any healing, I would seek God; educate yourself about how to proceed regarding modern western medicine.
Surviving for some, is the only goal. But for others, quality of life is equally, if not more, important.
Be patient, and understand, His grace is suffcient. By law, we should all be dead in our sin.
Not many like to hear this, myself included, at times, but because of our sin, any life expectancy beyond our very first sin is only made possible thanks to God's love, grace and mercy.
Having positive thoughts, supportive fellow Christians, faith that God WILL heal, is a very helpful aid in the healing process.
Not all of us Christians are healed though. We are living in a fallen world. Not all of us get justice in this life.
God knows all the details, we never will in this life, and maybe not even after.
Our reward is eternal.
Yes, probably all of us need more faith in all, if not most, areas of our life.
God can do it, and believe he will.

 

[crossnote]

That answers my questions about Jesus?......because someone was sick....that is supposed to disprove Jesus' life on this earth showing us the Father's exact nature and will?

Let's try this again...

let's use scripture as our guide ...

Show me in the life on Jesus on this earth where Christ puts sickness on people to teach them things....He is the exact representation of the Father's nature.

Show me Christ's life here on this earth telling people that He wants them sick to teach them something?

Show me the scripture where Jesus on this earth displaying and doing the will of the Father puts sickness on people.

I never said Jesus caused sickness, rather sin.
I only showed where not all are healed this side of eternity.

 

[Depleted]

I know this is a bone of contention and no one is belittling people that are sick. We are simply sharing scriptures. We should weep with those that weep and visit with them that are sick and thus bear each other's burdens.

I will say without hesitation that God does not give people sickness to "teach" them something. This is a very warped view of our Father. God does not cause sickness but He can in the midst of it reveal His love for us and He will meet us where ever we are at in this life.

Whenever we try to force our experiences over what the clear word of God says on a subject - we make that word null and void in our lives.

Can you imagine how all eternity would be like if our good, loving Father puts sickness on people to "teach" them things...He will have all eternity to show us His grace in His kindness towards us. If He is the same yesterday and forever...it will be an awful place to be in heaven with Him IF He was like that...but He is not.

Jesus came to destroy the WORKS of the devil. He displayed the WILL of the Father.

Acts 10:38 (NASB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.

Notice in the below scripture that Jesus associated the gospel ( good news ) of the Kingdom and healed all diseases. It is not a part of the kingdom

Matthew 9:35 (NASB)
[SUP]35 [/SUP] Jesus was going through all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every kind of disease and every kind of sickness. Luke 6:19 (NASB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] And all the people were trying to touch Him, for power was coming from Him and healing them all.

Matthew 4:24 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them.

Matthew 8:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:

Matthew 12:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all;

Luke 6:19 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] And the whole multitude sought to touch him: for there went virtue out of him, and healed them all.

These scriptures go on and on. Jesus healed all that came to Him. Remember the woman with the issue of blood?...she accessed the healing power and life out of Jesus by touching His hem in faith without Him even knowing she was there.

Why don't all people get healed? I don't know the answers . Why don't all people believe the gospel message and get saved? Our experiences should not be dictating what we believe if they violate the word of God and most importantly - the revelation of our Lord Jesus.

Actually, I disagree again. True, we're not being punished by being unhealthy. BUT, sometimes we're unhealthy because God does have something to teach us. Same lesson he wants to teach the healthy, but some of us need the extra tutor. Remember all we need comes from God, so seek him day by day, moment by moment. Too many spend their time proving they can do something worthy of God's decision to save them. Having no choice but to count on him because we can't do something worthy on our own, really cuts down on the amount of wasted time trying.

I highly recommend Joni Eareckson Tada and Steve Estes' book When God Weeps. The two of them dug through the Bible to find out why Joni became a quadriplegic. It really does answer the big question, "Why me, God?" AND it doesn't give the hoaxy, wishful-thinking answers many Christians simply accept because they aren't in the situation that made that question so very real.

Why don't some get healed? I needed that answer, so God introduced me to that book. It has made the difference.

 

[ForthAngel]

Mark 1[SUP]

32 [/SUP]That evening at sundown they brought to him all who were sick or oppressed by demons. [SUP]33 [/SUP]And the whole city was gathered together at the door. [SUP]34 [/SUP]And he healed many who were sick with various diseases, and cast out many demons. And he would not permit the demons to speak, because they knew him.


[SUP]35 [/SUP]And rising very early in the morning, while it was still dark, he departed and went out to a desolate place, and there he prayed. [SUP]36 [/SUP]And Simon and those who were with him searched for him, [SUP]37 [/SUP]and they found him and said to him, “Everyone is looking for you.” [SUP]38 [/SUP]And he said to them, “Let us go on to the next towns, that I may preach there also, for that is why I came out.”

 

[BenFTW]

I notice in your avatar (that is you?) you are wearing glasses...

A man must cross a river to get to a village to preach the Gospel. There is no bridge. So, what does he do? He steps out in faith and walks on water across the river into the village in order to preach the Gospel. Its a success, many come to Christ. He departs from the village.

Later the village gets a hold of this evangelist, and ask him to preach at the village again. The evangelist decides to go and he once again meets the river. This time, however, he notices a little down the way there is a bridge now. He decides to walk over to the bridge and cross the river. He makes it to the other side and one of the villagers ask him why he didn't walk on water again. The man replies, "Because there is a bridge."

Simply put, man has, through the grace of God, come up with a solution to poor eyesight. There is a practical solution. There is no need for the miracle, unless it be the desired avenue. Surely I could put down my glasses and seek the Lord for healing. However, I've had them all my life, so I am used to them. There is no need to walk on water when you have bridge, unless of course the Lord desires to bring glory to His name (through signs and wonders).

In this instance, one can choose man's solution or go to God for His solution. To be honest, I believe God releases innovation in the earth and so man's solution really is God at work. Giving people ideas and solutions, some people saying, "It just came to me in a dream." It is really neat.

 

[Grace777x70]

So you agree with my post #18 then....thanks..have a great weekend!

I never said Jesus caused sickness, rather sin.
I only showed where not all are healed this side of eternity.

 

[Gr8grace]

Sometimes the manifestations of the Spirit come into play and I have seen many get healed by the gifts of the Spirit in operation. The gifts of healings...the working of miracles and the gift of faith. They had no faith at all...lol

God is sovereign and why He moves in one person's life by the gifts of the Spirit and not in others is a mystery...to me anyway..

Healing is definitely in the gospel of Christ.

Healing is definitely in the Gospel.......... it verified the message.

Why isn't everybody physically healed today?

Because in our weakness He is strong.

Grace777. Before we were saved we had sickness and disease of the SOUL. Scar tissue of the soul is a phrase I like.

Worldly ideas, lusts ,thought patterns, worldly solution to our problems.............this is what we are being cured of and it is a lifetime of renewing those old thought patterns and what we are bombarded with as we walk in the Lord.

He is in the business of curing our souls from the scar tissue that this world leaves on us. Suffering in our flesh is the major means that God uses to clean up the scar tissue on our souls.

In our weakness, He is strong.

2 Cor 12:9~~New American Standard Bible
And He has said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness." Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me.

 

[Depleted]

Hi Ben,

Nohing new here same old WOF/Healh/wealh stuff. Off course God can heal and of course God heals.

And Ben without even going to scriture, personally testimonies on here prove the WOF/Health/Wealth gospel false. Its like WOF/HW prosperity preachers teaching the same nonsense you have - they even have proclaimed to have healed people only for he real evidence to come out later tha it was hocus pocus. Ohh of course I forgot... it was the person faith, thats what it was - it obviously wasn't srong enough.

Here's a very interesting thought for you... Someone with a weak faith is still saved and will save. yet you guys try and tell us that its the weak faith that stops a healing being ''''''realized''''... funny that???

Hold your horses there. I too believe Ben's wrong, but give the guy a break. He's not WoF or HW! He's just not. And this really is the typical answer prevalent in the church today. Who bothers going beyond that to really think it over until they have no choice? How much studying have you done on why there is no instant healing every single time? If you don't seriously need instant healing, I suspect none. Since I know you used to be an alcoholic, I suspect you've done more studying than a completely healthy person, but I can almost guarantee the study became not so important again, once you realized God gave you the strength to get past drinking as relief for what hurt you.

So don't be going blaming Ben for something he simply hasn't thought out completely yet. We all have stuff we haven't completely thought out yet. Stop accusing people of being something we know they're not.