Why Christians hate gays and love bacon?

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FireDragonArmy

Guest
#1
This is a bit of a long text but I suggest everyone read it whole to understand my message here. Its worth the read, and it'll give you all something to think about. And probably give you incentive to go and reread your Bible.

Well, why do Christians like bacon and hate gays? Same reason that they don’t hate shellfish eaters but do hate gay people?

Why so many Christians hate gays all boils down to the source of hatred.

Religion is not the cause of it, it’s the excuse. It’s what bigots use to rationalize their bigotry: “The Bible says it’s an abomination”.

This off course refers to the Book of Leviticus, the third book of the Bible. Specifically Lev. 20:13, which says (in the King James Version), "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination."

Don’t get me wrong. Leviticus has many wonderful truly inspiring passages. Like the Jubilee laws outlined in chapter 25, for example, provide an inspiring vision of liberty and justice for all. The 10th verse of this chapter even supplied the inscription for the Liberty Bell: "proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof."

The Jubilee laws and the ideals they embody, unfortunately, are nearly wholly neglected and forgotten. Most of the book of Leviticus is similarly neglected.

Yet some passages live on, their teachings still regarded as unwavering and binding.

The thing is, though, that the book of Leviticus condemns a lot of things as "abominations." The 11th chapter is overflowing with abominations. For example, from verses 10-12:

And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you: They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcasses in abomination. Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

Yes, indeed people. Leviticus states very clearly that eating shellfish is an abomination. Many, if not most Christians today eat shrimp or other shellfish. Yet, there has never ever been any persecution of shellfish-eaters. Why is that? Why is one sentence taken as “God’s law”, and another just as “ancient dietary laws”, when they’re both forbidden in the same book, and the condemnation for both (”abomination”) is the same?

The answer, of course, is that people are already bigots (though an important source of that bigotry may well be church sermons). Saying “It’s God’s command” instead of admitting to their prejudice makes them feel better.

The folks over on the religious right cite Leviticus as evidence that homosexuals are an unclean "abomination," yet they have no problem eating at Red Lobster. What gives?

Since many observers have noted this apparent inconsistency I figured I would wade in to try to explain why it is that so many contemporary Christians reject gays while embracing shellfish and bacon.

To understand why God is no longer considered a hater of shrimp or bacon eaters you have to flip ahead to the Acts of the Apostles, the good doctor's account of the early days of the Christian church.

Acts chapter 10 finds the apostle Peter on a rooftop in Joppa, praying at noon before heading down to lunch.

The impulsive former fisherman has grown into a genuine leader in the early church. At Pentecost, he preached the gospel to people from every corner of the Roman Empire and he is slowly appreciating that this new community is supposed to transcend any ethnic or cultural boundaries. But the goyim still seem to bug him a bit. Especially the Romans.

So God gives him a vision. Peter falls into a trance and sees a vision of a giant tablecloth descending from heaven. The tablecloth is covered with honeybaked hams, cheesesteaks, crab cakes, calamari and lobster.

"Eat up, Peter," a voice tells him

"Surely not, Lord!" Peter says. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean."

"Don't call anything unclean that God has made clean," the voice says. "And try the angels on
horseback, they're like butter."

This happens three times.

This is generally regarded as an instance in which a New Testament passage seems to set aside a prohibition from the Old Testament. And that's why our friends on the religious right do not feel compelled to eat kosher and do not consider shellfish to be "an abomination."

Fair enough, but there's something else going on in this story. The main point of Peter's rooftop epiphany has nothing to do with diet. The main point of this vision had to do with the people who were about to knock on Peter's door.

Peter is about to meet Cornelius. Cornelius is a gentile. Worse than that, he is a Roman. Worse than that, he is a Roman centurion. Cornelius is about as kosher as a bacon double cheeseburger.

But give Peter credit -- he understood the vision. "Don't call anything unclean that God has made clean." Don't call anyone unclean that God has made clean.

Peter does not treat Cornelius as an unclean outsider. He travels to the centurion's house, where he says, "You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with a Gentile or visit him. But God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean."

Peter gets it. In this new community that God is building, this church, there is neither Jew nor Greek, male nor female, slave nor free. No one is excluded as unclean.

This is the unsubtle point that Luke is hammering home for his gentile friend Theophilus. The surrounding chapters of Acts read like a hyper-P.C. after-school special on celebrating diversity. The church embraces Jews and gentiles, Roman soldiers and slaves, men and women, Africans, Greeks and even a token white European.

In our fondness for Easter ham, we Christians have fervently clung to the surface-level meaning of Peter's vision. But we haven't been as enthusiastic about embracing the larger, more important lesson God was teaching him there on the rooftop. When the "unclean" outsiders knock on our doors, we don't like inviting them in.

That, in a nutshell, is why some Christians happily dismiss one "abomination" while still behaving abominably out of allegiance to another.

(Oh, and what about Leviticus' Jubilee laws? Those were never set aside by anything in the New Testament, but Christians no longer treat them as authoritative because, um ... well, because money is pretty and shiny and let's us buy nice things.)

If biblical prohibition were the real source of condemnation, we would find ourselves in a society where shellfish eaters and bankers would be prohibited from participating in youth organizations like the Boy Scouts. Those who insist on such a ban would argue that those who so flagrantly violate God’s law cannot possibly be moral, and clearly cannot be considered good role models for our children.

What type of message does it give our children to be a member of a troop whose troop leader is known to be a practicing shellfish or bacon eater or banker – when the Bible so clearly identifies these acts as a violation of His law? These children will no doubt come to think that all of God’s law are open to question. This type of moral relativism is the last thing that we need to be teaching impressionable young minds.

When the church was in its early days God, and I mean God himself said onto Peter himself that the old ways had to put aside. God was giving mankind a new fresh start. God sacrificed his own son to give us this grand gift. No longer was mankind allowed to view his fellow man as unclean and unworthy.

God was reminding Peter that no person was unclean in His eyes. God wasn’t just talking about people who eat shellfish or bacon. He was talking about all the people that Leviticus and other books in the Bible called unclean. That includes gay people. They are not unclean. They are also the children of God. God does not view them as sinners, just as much as he doesn’t view bacon and shellfish eaters as sinners.

Look at why He, in his infinite wisdom, gave us this great gift. So we wouldn’t end up in the society Jesus had to live in. Full of hypocrites, shunned innocents, and people treating their brothers and sisters as unworthy unclean people that had no rights in life. Jesus died to help teach us this lesson. Jesus taught it all his life. He embraced the so called unclean people in the world. The bankers, the tax collectors, the Romans, the gentiles, the prostitutes, the lepers, the blind and lame…. That is what Jesus died for. For our sins. And God clearly instructed Peter what those sins where. One of them was the sin of mistreating each other. Leviticus calls shellfish and bacon people unclean people. Yet God himself said onto Peter not to see them as such. Not to treat them as such.

God absolved us all of viewing each other as unclean.

So, there you have it. Isn't this clear and unquestionable proof that homosexuality is not a sin in the eyes of God. God told of to put bigotry behind us. Jesus himself died professing this message. If you think it a sin to be gay then perhaps it is you who is sinning in the eyes of our Lord.

If you read the Bible, read it whole, don't just quote little sections of it. They lose their context and meaning that way. The Bible is not a weapon. But a teaching tool and a message from God to mankind. God never ever supports hate, it teaches love and acceptance. We have no right, and no business judging each others souls. That is God's privilege.

Feel free to share your thoughts on this topic. What do you think of these parts of the Bible, that are unfortunately, very much under read, and very poorly understood parts of the Bible.

I hope this gives people something to think about. Remember what God said to Peter in the Acts of the Apostles.
 
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carpetmanswife

Guest
#2
" So , there you have it. Isnt this clear and unquestionable proof that homosexualtiy is not a sin in the eyes of God." ...so the point of this thread was to get to that particular quote? ...that my friend is twisted logic.
 
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pinkcandy

Guest
#3
we must love gays but hate the sin. Dont hate them. I was gay once b4 i got saved
 
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CristenJ

Guest
#4
Oh my...

I've mentioned before how people twist God's Word in order to make their sins seem ok in the eyes of the world...this has been a perfect example.


If I tell a lie, that is a sin. Regardless of WHY I told it, or who I told it to, or who else heard it...lying is a sin. I lie sometimes. I sin. There is no way around that...so I don't understand this twisted, sickening 'logic' that some people use to justify their own sins...
 
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FireDragonArmy

Guest
#5
Hey, I am like so not interested in your "opinions" of gay people.

I'm asking what you think of my Biblical argument here. What do you guys have to say about that? I can't help but notice your silence on the argument here.

You guys are like so missing the whole point here. Yes, I support gay rights, yes, I believe that the Bible doesn't condemn it. Fine, I admit to it all freely. But that besides the point.

I am asking if you guys have ever read these parts of the Bible? Am I wrong in their meaning? Or should I just go out and start preaching sin next to the frozen shellfish section in my local supermarket?

Try to stay on topic.
 
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carpetmanswife

Guest
#6
if thats what your gonna preach....frozen food section it is.......
 
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CristenJ

Guest
#7
I did comment on the Biblical argument. I said the whole thing was a perfect example of how people twist the Bible in order to make their sins ok.
 
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CristenJ

Guest
#8
I would also like to say that seafood and pork are some of the most dangerous meats to eat...when raw or prepared wrong. In OT times, if a person ate bad fish or bad pork, they died. There was not the technology/medicine to handle that.

Today, we know first of all how to properly prepare these foods, and we also have the medicine to cure most illnesses. So THAT argument doesn't really apply.

However, homosexuality is possibly even MORE of an abomination today than it was then...HIV and AIDS, anyone? We still haven't got a cure for that.
 
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Abing

Guest
#9
WHAT ON EARTH?!

GOD CREATED MAN AND WOMAN only .. isnt that biblical enough that Gay is not OF GOD?!
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#10
FireDragon, sorry to say but you are completely wrong.

Homosexuality has always been an abomination even in the New Testament not just the Old.

You know this verse?:

1Co 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor abusers, nor homosexuals,

The bit "do not be deceived" is important. If you believe that homosexuals will inherit the kingdom of God then you are deceived.
 
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Slepsog4

Guest
#11
DragonFly,

First of all, no true Christian is going to hate gays or anyone else.

Secondly, God distinguishes between moral issues and those things are about ceremonial unclean.

The food laws had a practical side definitely, but the primary element is that the Jews lived a "separated" life from the nations around them. They were restricted not only of food, but dress, as well as hair styles.

The food laws have been lifted under Christ. But homosexuality as a moral issue has not changed. Paul stated that those who live like that (in agreement with the OT) are worthy of death. The church has no approval to act as executioner. But God will bring those folks into judgment. Our job is to warn and win them over to the truth.
 
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kselby

Guest
#12
yes i agree when you say we hate what is bad...including homosexuality....i do not hate gay individuals...even though i do not agree with their lifestyle choices.The bible does clearly state that homosexuality is wrong...if we all chose to be gay ...pretty soon the human race would be gone ...which would go against gods original plan to have humans fill the earth and become many.it i not up to us to stand in judgment of other peoples choices...there is only one who has the right to judge.
 
Jan 31, 2009
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#13
it is quotes like this ( why do christians hate gays) that puts larger wedges into the world of hate. Christians are commanded to even love our enemy, so if you hate gays then you are just as wrong as they are , and you need to get the beam out of your own eye before you try to get the splinter out of the gays eye,


Ro 5:8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
 
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Rosinsky

Guest
#14
So, there you have it. Isn't this clear and unquestionable proof that homosexuality is not a sin in the eyes of God. God told of to put bigotry behind us. Jesus himself died professing this message. If you think it a sin to be gay then perhaps it is you who is sinning in the eyes of our Lord.

If you read the Bible, read it whole, don't just quote little sections of it. They lose their context and meaning that way. The Bible is not a weapon. But a teaching tool and a message from God to mankind. God never ever supports hate, it teaches love and acceptance. We have no right, and no business judging each others souls. That is God's privilege.

Feel free to share your thoughts on this topic. What do you think of these parts of the Bible, that are unfortunately, very much under read, and very poorly understood parts of the Bible.

I hope this gives people something to think about. Remember what God said to Peter in the Acts of the Apostles.
FireDragonArmy,

You've raised some pretty good points that I think we should look into them and not just dismiss them like some of us usually do. However, there is no biblical or logical argument in your post that made "this clear and unquestionable proof that homosexuality is not a sin in the eyes of God." In fact, nothing from your post even try to argue that homosexuality is not a sin or no longer a sin. You simply argued that "christians" emphasize on homosexuality being an abomination while disregarding other things that were/are also abominations. Other things being food/meat.

The bottom line is we have valid biblical reasons to believe that anything in regards to food is ok to eat. You yourself showed the verses. Reading your post, I see you understand quite clearly the purpose of Peter's vision. Aside from the purpose of the vision, we also see that it is ok to eat any type of meat. Furturemore, 1 Corinthians 10:25-26 says: "Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake: For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof." Which means that the whole earth belongs to God and everything in it. Therefore, we may eat as we wish.

In regards to homosexual acts, we have absolutely no reference to it being "ok." In fact, we have more biblical evdience of God's hatred of the sin.

Roman 1:26-27 says: That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. 27 And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved.

My question to you is this: where is your biblical proof or reasons that homosexuality is now ok?
 
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emma19

Guest
#15
homosexuality is a sin. Jesus commands us to love all people whether good or bad. even paul also rebukes homosexuality saying that it is wrong. as christians we should not hate anyone but love all even those who are gay but it certainly does not mean we have to support sin. being born again means that we are no longer under the law but we live according to the Spirit. Paul actually states in 1 corinthians that it doesn't matter what we eat. Jesus says that it's not what we eat that makes us unclean but what comes from us i.e. the words we speak, our actions that make us unclean. Get it???
but if you feel it's a sin to eat certain food then then don't it then but don't judge others who do.
 
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FireDragonArmy

Guest
#16
Well, Robinsky at least offers some arguments that are worth thinking about. Though I have to say one thing to MahohonySnail. If you're gonna quote the Bible, then at least do it right. The word used in 1Co 6:9 is effeminate, not homosexual. that word isn't used once in the entire Bible. Don't go changing the word to suit your own purposes. And effeminate, well, the meaning of that is a little loose for interpretation. It could mean anything from crybabies (male or female) to gay crossdressers. I'm not sure what it means. I'll have to read up on that verse. I'll get back to you all on that.

Robinsky did make me realize that I still needed to clarify a few things. For one, the word abomination as it is used in the Bible does not actually refer to a sin. That is actually a common mistake to make. It actually refers to a tabu or taboo, which is the original meaning of the Greek word. So it means taboo, Which is not really a sin. Modern day usage of the word has given it a new meaning. Making sin akin to abomination. But that's not what it means.

Well, that is mostly a result of the passage of time. Language is fluent and ever changing. Plus the Bible has been translated so many times many of the words and their meaning have been altered over time.

In the Bible Abomination is used to refer to a great many things. Most of them, as many of you pointed out, to things that partook to hygiene and food safety. All things that now no longer have meaning since we can deal with these issues in other ways now. And God also freed us of the laws in Leviticus. Otherwise people who collected taxes and bankers would be sinners and immoral too.

So then, as I mentioned earlier God absolved Mankind of the purity laws set down in the OT. No one is unclean in the eyes of God, he said it himself.

Then we are left with the NT. Ok, yeah. Hmm... that's a little tougher. But I did some looking up and digging up. Those books of mine tend to pile up and bury themselves in dust and junk it seems, after a few years of non-use.

But I can say that I have a valid argument to counter the verse in Romans 1:26-27. The issue in Romans 1:26-27 is not orientation but use. That is made clear in every translation I know of (as well as the Greek text itself). The NIV says “in the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women.” The point is that any sexual act which is purely about the act itself, and not about bonding and love is deemed unnatural and contrary to God's commandment. This would be true regardless of whether someone’s orientation was heterosexual or homosexual.

I'll admit this is a tough one. Looking forward to your arguments on it. But remember that God did instruct mankind not to turn anyone away. Regardless of what you think of them. Or even how you feel God thinks of them. Its not our place to judge the eternal soul of those around us. As I said in Apostles God said that no one is unclean and that we mustn't think of others as such.

Feel free to share your thoughts on the subject.
Sincerely,
FDA

Oh and to Christen J I only have one thing to say. Low, girl, that is low. Revolting even. Blaming gay people for HIV and AIDS. What is wrong with you. Yes, Aids first began to spread in gay communities. Historical fact. But that was pure coincidence. Any western person could have caught it and spread it. Never ever forget that Aids originated from Africa. Ancient African blood samples from the early 50's have been shown to carry the illness. Long before it ever hit the West. The illness has been in Africa for centuries, but due to the regions isolated nature it remained hidden and undiscovered. Doesn't mean it wasn't there. Its an illness, a terrible one. Not some biblical plague send down to punish the wicked. And besides. If God sent it down to target only gay people, well, then he missed. Over 85% of current infected people are straight people. Most of them women and children. Seeing as I wrote a 100 page graduate paper on the subject I know better then your bigoted comment. Really, low, girl.
 
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FireDragonArmy

Guest
#17
Oh, and I really don't have a problem with eating shellfish or pork. I'm just using it as a metaphor to point something out here.
 
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CristenJ

Guest
#18
Oh and to Christen J I only have one thing to say. Low, girl, that is low. Revolting even. Blaming gay people for HIV and AIDS. What is wrong with you. Yes, Aids first began to spread in gay communities. Historical fact. But that was pure coincidence. Any western person could have caught it and spread it. Never ever forget that Aids originated from Africa. Ancient African blood samples from the early 50's have been shown to carry the illness. Long before it ever hit the West. The illness has been in Africa for centuries, but due to the regions isolated nature it remained hidden and undiscovered. Doesn't mean it wasn't there. Its an illness, a terrible one. Not some biblical plague send down to punish the wicked. And besides. If God sent it down to target only gay people, well, then he missed. Over 85% of current infected people are straight people. Most of them women and children. Seeing as I wrote a 100 page graduate paper on the subject I know better then your bigoted comment. Really, low, girl.


Oh wow. I did NOT blame homosexuals for HIV/AIDS. I used that disease as an example of an illness that homosexuals transmit amongst each other and as something even present-day medicine cannot cope with.

I'm perfectly aware that straight people become infected, thanks.

I get so tired of repeating myself...but...

I don't hate homosexuals. I have close friends who are gay. Some of my favorite family members are gay. I do not hate gay PEOPLE.

However, no matter how I say it, gay people or people who support gay rights and all that never believe me. Because they don't want to accept that Christians could love a PERSON without supporting/agreeing with said person's CHOICES.

So, FireDragon, if you want to call me a bigot, fine. I'm not here to pick a fight, but it's not in my hands how you choose to interpret my statements.
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#19
Though I have to say one thing to MahohonySnail. If you're gonna quote the Bible, then at least do it right.
Not sure which planet you are on, but I quoted from the MKJV version which uses the word homosexual. So do the NIV, ISV, GNB, CEV, ESV , NASB, NLT, and Amplified versions. So there ;).


Don't go changing the word to suit your own purposes.
Actually I didn't change anything, just quoted it word for word.

The word used in 1Co 6:9 is effeminate, not homosexual. that word isn't used once in the entire Bible.
And effeminate, well, the meaning of that is a little loose for interpretation. It could mean anything from crybabies (male or female) to gay crossdressers. I'm not sure what it means. I'll have to read up on that verse. I'll get back to you all on that
The relevant word used is sodomite. Effeminate might mean male prostitute or cross-dresser. But the relevant passage for homosexuality in the KJV I highlight in bold:

1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,


compare with MKJV, which translates effeminate to abusers, and the bolded passage above as homosexuals:


1Co 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor abusers, nor homosexuals,
Sodomy could also mean a general prohibition against anal sex, which also rules out homosexuality anyway. Either way it is clear and as recognised by most modern translations, that homosexuality is what is being referred to. Even if a person might claim the word for sodomite does not refer to homosexuality, homosexuality is still covered under the heading of fornication. Simply because homosexuals cannot get married and never fit the biblical definition of marriage as between a man and woman. So they are still not inheriting the kingdom of God because they are fornicating.
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#20
I have more time now to respond biblically to the following re: unclean.


When the church was in its early days God, and I mean God himself said onto Peter himself that the old ways had to put aside. God was giving mankind a new fresh start. God sacrificed his own son to give us this grand gift. No longer was mankind allowed to view his fellow man as unclean and unworthy.
Unclean and unworthy in a ceremonial sense yes, in a moral sense, no. All are sinners, or morally unclean, including homosexuals.



God was reminding Peter that no person was unclean in His eyes. God wasn’t just talking about people who eat shellfish or bacon. He was talking about all the people that Leviticus and other books in the Bible called unclean. That includes gay people. They are not unclean. They are also the children of God. God does not view them as sinners, just as much as he doesn’t view bacon and shellfish eaters as sinners.
You seem to be claiming that God said that no homosexual is unclean, or anyone for that matter.
But Peter's vision was strictly about ceremonial uncleanness, that the uncircumcised Gentiles were to be a part of God's salvation plan, not just the Jews. God was not saying that every person is now morally clean, which is what you are talking about by stating that gays are not unclean. It is clear from the following passages that people are still unclean, and can be called unclean, despite Peter's vision:
1Co 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; else your children would be unclean, but now they are holy.
Eph 5:5 For you know this, that no fornicator, or unclean person, or covetous one (who is an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

2Co 6:17 Therefore come out from among them and be separated, says the Lord, and do not touch the unclean thing. And I will receive you


So I don't think you have correctly interpreted Peter's vision. You have failed to recognise what it is referring to i.e. Jew and Gentile, ceremonial cleanness not moral cleanness. Moral cleanness is only achieved through faith in Christ.