Requirements for a intelligent designer to be recognized by his organic subjects!
- Thread starter Jackeron
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Ummm....I do not think that signing His name on Creation would be clever at all.
We tend to think that we are the masters of everything we understand. God is right to remain somewhat a mystery to us because as soon as we believe we completely understand Him, we will dismiss Him, as if we have conquered Him and then we will move on to the next big thing.
The big temptation with idolatry in the OT and even today is that we are attracted to objects that we feel like we can control - whether that is a golden calf or a flat screen TV. We both worship and despise these objects depending on our whimsy. God does not submit Himself to our whimsy - He is in control, not us.
We tend to think that we are the masters of everything we understand. God is right to remain somewhat a mystery to us because as soon as we believe we completely understand Him, we will dismiss Him, as if we have conquered Him and then we will move on to the next big thing.
The big temptation with idolatry in the OT and even today is that we are attracted to objects that we feel like we can control - whether that is a golden calf or a flat screen TV. We both worship and despise these objects depending on our whimsy. God does not submit Himself to our whimsy - He is in control, not us.
I
He did.
John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Matthew 22:36-40
Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38This is the first and great commandment.
39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Exodus 31:13
Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
Z
you say on preprogrammed but are we not all programmed with a sense of right and wrong? is it not society which stips away these senses and basically desensitises us to what is right and wrong?
when you killed a man what did you feel?
when you stole from someone what did you feel?
when you had sex out of wedlock for the first time what did you feel?
it is the same, when you were about to die to whom did you instinctively call even when you were an atheist? did you not call out to God?
you know you have a Creator, this knowledge is inside of you...... you know there is an absolute right and wrong this is inside of you also..... it is up to you to either allow society to stip away conciense (sorry spelling) or to follow what you know in your heart and at your worst hour to be that which is right and true.....
when you killed a man what did you feel?
when you stole from someone what did you feel?
when you had sex out of wedlock for the first time what did you feel?
it is the same, when you were about to die to whom did you instinctively call even when you were an atheist? did you not call out to God?
you know you have a Creator, this knowledge is inside of you...... you know there is an absolute right and wrong this is inside of you also..... it is up to you to either allow society to stip away conciense (sorry spelling) or to follow what you know in your heart and at your worst hour to be that which is right and true.....
I
I agree as that was the point I was making. Those things doesn't happen out of love. But now I have a question of marriage as you are letting society dictate to you what it is. No where in the Bible is there a ceremony of a union of a man and a women like what we consider marriage today. Was Abraham married to the woman that his wife gave him to lie with? What of Isaac and his two wives? How about Jacob? All of thes men are righteous men in God's eyes.
Your right Jackeron we are not born Christian or Muslim, for in the Fall in Genesis Chapter 3 all men are separated from God until you are reconciled to him.
Ultimately all through the Old Testament we see God redeeming His people until ultimately He sent His son Jesus Christ to Die to take the penalty your sins and mine. If you believe in the Son of God your sins are forgiven in Him.
Regarding creation, the creation itself testifies of a creator, God Himself says this and our own experince lets us know, this is called general revelation.
Psalm 19:1 " The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky above proclaims his handiwork."
Romans 1:18-20 "18Forthe wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse."
Special revelation is Scripture itself the bible. this contains the very word's of God himself. the God that spoke the bible is the very same God who loves, . He is the God who seeks after you, He loves you! In Jesus Christ you have this fulness of Love who died for you and rose again so that you may have eternal life.
Ultimately all through the Old Testament we see God redeeming His people until ultimately He sent His son Jesus Christ to Die to take the penalty your sins and mine. If you believe in the Son of God your sins are forgiven in Him.
Regarding creation, the creation itself testifies of a creator, God Himself says this and our own experince lets us know, this is called general revelation.
Psalm 19:1 " The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky above proclaims his handiwork."
Romans 1:18-20 "18Forthe wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse."
Special revelation is Scripture itself the bible. this contains the very word's of God himself. the God that spoke the bible is the very same God who loves, . He is the God who seeks after you, He loves you! In Jesus Christ you have this fulness of Love who died for you and rose again so that you may have eternal life.
I
There weren't any scriptures when Adam walked the earth. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob didn't have the Bible to know God either. Yes God spoke to these individuals but what of the ones in this time period who've never heard of God speaking?
Romans 2:14
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Man doesn't have instincts. A tiger doesn't feel bad because it killed another tiger. Or even a human for that matter. We have a conscious and it is this that gives us an awarness of an ivisible creator. I never needed scripture to tell me that my life is not by accident or luck. I never needed a Bible to tell me that what I see in life is all that there is. If this is all that we have to look foward to and once we die, then that's it, then what stops me from robbing or stealing for money? Why even make an honest living at all? My conscious convicts me of these wrong doings. This isn't instinct. This is your personal evidence of a God you know in your heart you have to answer to one day.
I
That's basic nature. Life wants to live! But know one is born knowing how to survive. We are taught how to. Even that proves the existence of a Creator. Babies are solely dependant of the parents. They don't worry about if it's similac, emfamil, or breast milk being fed. They don't worry about clothes or shelter as the nature of the baby is simply to depend totally on the parents who bring that child into the world.
Z
I agree that marriage the ceremony we know of today is not seen in the bible, however, the lifetime bond between man and woman is (whether this bond is a man having more than one wife or not he does keep and protect and provide for all his wifes) but this instinct most especially after a marital union would be for the man and the woman to have the bond and deep desire to stay together for a lifetime... not the same thing as a one night stand, and with a one night stand most people would end up feeling empty.. alone, sad...... and guilty
this was the point I was making here
this was the point I was making here
Z
how do you know if your following the right God? I once asked my mother she said the God that makes you feel more loved/or is more loving..... but I feel so loved.... and so many things happen to me, I learn, ohh god I learn in dreams......
but still, something feels..... off
its the only way to explain it, i am taught that christianity is wrong and a lie and that the gospels of Jesus were lost and they arent here today, but then I read the words of Jesus in the Bible and it doesnt feel wrong so I think to myself your gospels are just books of hadith then because it is true they feel like they came from Jesus.....
and the words of my Imam asws I know came from my Imam asws I can feel this as certian as my soul....... and I love my Imam asws so much I would die for him and cant leave him
but I am confused because if Jesus is also the spirit of God and Messiah and is coming back at the end of times to save as this is the definition of messiah how come in my religion all he does is pray behind my Imam asws and tell all the people to follow my Imam asws, if this is the case it is not logical that he should be called as messiah and his place is not big enough in my religion for who he is so I am confused
and I dont know if it is the shaytan or what anymore or even if i am following shaytan now or if i was to leave if i would be following the shaytan so how do i know what is right anymore?
sorry for the emotional tearsy outburst.... i have to go ahead and say it.... him saying we all have a mark it is just either the mark of God or the mark of the beast and though this is what i believe i dont know which mark i carry... i dont know what god i serve
but still, something feels..... off
its the only way to explain it, i am taught that christianity is wrong and a lie and that the gospels of Jesus were lost and they arent here today, but then I read the words of Jesus in the Bible and it doesnt feel wrong so I think to myself your gospels are just books of hadith then because it is true they feel like they came from Jesus.....
and the words of my Imam asws I know came from my Imam asws I can feel this as certian as my soul....... and I love my Imam asws so much I would die for him and cant leave him
but I am confused because if Jesus is also the spirit of God and Messiah and is coming back at the end of times to save as this is the definition of messiah how come in my religion all he does is pray behind my Imam asws and tell all the people to follow my Imam asws, if this is the case it is not logical that he should be called as messiah and his place is not big enough in my religion for who he is so I am confused
and I dont know if it is the shaytan or what anymore or even if i am following shaytan now or if i was to leave if i would be following the shaytan so how do i know what is right anymore?
sorry for the emotional tearsy outburst.... i have to go ahead and say it.... him saying we all have a mark it is just either the mark of God or the mark of the beast and though this is what i believe i dont know which mark i carry... i dont know what god i serve