Hebrews 6:4 and Hebrews 10:24 does not mean you can lose your salvation

[Chuckt]

The first three verses talk about "us":

Hebrews 6:1 ¶ Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Hebrews 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Hebrews 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.

The next couple of verses talk about "them". It is talking about the Jewish or Hebrew believers who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift. It is not talking about us because if you study the Bible there are words "turn" and "return" because there are exortations to come back to God like the parable of the prodigal son who returned. John tells us in 1 John 1:8-9 that if any man sins that and if we confess our sins He is faithful to forgive us and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. And Hebrews 4:15 says "For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin. " so the Bible has opportunities for forgiveness, healing, restoration and the opportunity to turn back to God. These verses can't be saying that if we fall away then it is over. 1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Hebrews 6:4 For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Hebrews 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Hebrews 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.

We aren't part of this. There are five participles here:
for those who were once enlightened
have tasted of the heavenly gift
tasted the good word of God
and have fallen away (the word "if" here can mean "and" as in "and have fallen away")

If doesn't say,"if they shall fall away". The word "If" can mean "and" and I looked it up.

Hebrews 6:9 ¶ But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

As believers, we have gone on in the basic things. We know the truth in regards to Christ.

It is written to a group of Jewish believers that came to a knowledge of the truth. They tasted of the heavenly gift. They were made partakers of the Holy Ghost. They had fallen away. They tasted and had fallen away. It is impossible to renew them again to repentance.

They joined the ranks of those of Pontius Pilate and the High Priest before the and those before the crucifixion. If you've come into that much light and that much reality and then you fall away and go back to the Levitical system, you're numbered among those who crucified the son of God because you're saying He's not the son of God. What would there be to go back to?

We've moved onto the truth.

-My notes from Pastor Joe's MP3 online.

There are four classes if conditional clauses:

1. 1st class conditional clause is the condition of fact. May be translated "since"
2. 2nd class conditional clause is a condition contrary to fact.
3. 3rd class conditional clause is a condition of high probability
4. 4th class conditional clause is a condition of low probability

The Greek ei with the indicative denotes actual rather than potential condition, and in some versions is translated "since," e.g., Col 3:1, NIV.

continued...

 

[Chuckt]

The last person I was witnessing to was teaching sinless perfection and only Jesus could take the scroll in heaven because only Jesus was worthy. They don't care that 1 John 1:8-9 says if we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves. I witness to some far off people who teach that you can be perfect:

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect (g5046 τέλειος teleios), even as your Father which is in heaven isperfect (g5046 τέλειος teleios).

I was trying to tell them that "perfect" can mean "mature" but only half the Bibles I survey hold to that opinion:

Philippians 3:15 NKJV Therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this mind; and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you.

New King James Version, © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc. All rights reserved. Used by permission.

They don't care that it was by the offering of Jesus' death on the cross that caused us to be perfected:


Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

They teach that if you sin wilfully then you can't be saved and they use this verse:


Hebrews 10:26 ¶ For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Who hasn't sinned once since they were saved? Don't answer that..

They can't understand that we all sin and all sin is willful.

“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.”-I John 3:9

“Note: In 1 John 3:4, 8, 9, the KJV wrongly has ‘commit’ (an impossible meaning in v.9; the RV rightly has ‘doeth,’ i.e., of a continuous habit, equivalent to prasso, ‘to practice.’ The committal of an act is not in view in that passage.”

P.113, Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words

“First John 3:9 is in the present continuous tense and should be translated ‘Whoever is born of God does not continually practice sin.”-Dr. Norman Geisler, p.539 “When Critics Ask”

“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.”-1 John 1:8

Can a believer lose his salvation? I believe this is keeping with my view on Hebrews 6:4 and how it is talking about Hebrew believers and the writer uses the pronoun “them” instead of “us”. I believe this verse is talking about an apostate or someone who heard but never really believed and those who hear the gospel and don’t believe seem to disintegrate (Romans 1:21-25). In your opinion, is this verse about a believer who walked away or turned away from God?

Hebrews 10:26 ¶ For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge (g1922 ἐπίγνωσις epignōsis) of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

This is not a divine knowledge and the example is in its definition of “knowledge”:

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/...gs=G1922&t=KJV
1) precise and correct knowledge

a) used in the NT of the knowledge of things ethical and divine

A definition for divine knowledge may be Philippians 3:10:

Philippians 3:10 That I may know (g1097 γινώσκω ginōskō) him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/...gs=G1097&t=KJV

1) to learn to know, come to know, get a knowledge of perceive, feel

a) to become known

I believe part of the context of Hebrews 10:26 is found in verses 27 and 28 that they are “adversaries” (v.27) and they “despised Moses law” and we might look to examples of people who despised Moses law and who died with two or three witnesses.

Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

The three parts of Hebrews 10:29 are (1) “hath trodden under foot the Son of God”, (2) “hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing” and (3) “hath done despite (to insult or treat shamefully) unto the Spirit of grace”. Insulting God sounds like the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit where they are no longer interested in the things of God.

Can these three things be in contrast to some of the previous verses in the chapter?

“…wherewith he was sanctified…” sounds like they cleansed themselves externally to me and didn’t cleanse themselves internally. We need to have our hearts sprinkled internally and have our bodies washed internally:

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/...ongs=G37&t=KJV

Hebrews 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
Hebrews 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of [our] faith without wavering; (for he [is] faithful that promised

Hebrews 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

Is Hebrews 10:29 contrasted with Hebrews 10:22, 23 and 24?

My questions are, why aren't they cleansed and why does God remember their sin?

Hebrews 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

My final question is, why aren't they perfected? Did they not believe?

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

I'm not dating Jesus but if someone broke up with me and I said I'm going to go out and sin wilfully (Heb. 10:26) then am I really saying the same thing that I'm sanctified unto?

1 John 1:9 If we confess (g3670 ὁμολογέω homologeō) our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

homologeō
1) to say the same thing as another, i.e. to agree with, assent
2) to concede
a) not to refuse, to promise


insulted the Spirit of grace? Can even the reprobate be temporarily sanctified and in the covenant? So, we have those who have shared in the Holy Spirit and those who were sanctified by the blood of the covenant falling away and insulting the Spirit of grace! Sharing in the Holy Spirit and being sanctified are experiences for believers only.
1 Corinthians 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

Potiphar's house was blessed because of Joseph.

I can see someone using the same argument for believing child baptism sanctifies them but I'm not at all saying you do.

The difference, Chuck, is that these were sanctified by the blood of the covenant. That is a privilege for believers only. How can a non-believer, void of the Spirit and bound for hell, insult the Spirit of grace?

How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? Can even the reprobate be temporarily sanctified and in the covenant?

The same way they were sanctified by the blood of the old covenant. They didn't believe. It is sort of like community churches. They go to church because there is community there and not because they believe. They go to church because their parents went to church but they didn't change. They said the sinner's prayer so to speak but it is by believing that you are saved:
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

The question is: Can you cry crocodile tears and be saved? Can you be in anathema and be saved?

1 Corinthians 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God
Galatians 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Do people really believe or are they just crying crocodile tears? It is easy to say you believe. I had a professor lie to me and she did not at all live like she believed. How can I tell you whether a person believes or not? I can't. What kind of person are they after they say they believe and which direction do they walk? The wheat looks just like the tares. We can't tell but God can tell. But I would place my belief on the fact that such people are insincere or lieing. People are fickle. According to my sociology textbook, people lie on the average of 200 times a day and I have researched this independently.

Vine says the verb rendered "sin" is "in the present continuous tense, signifying, not an act or a series of acts, but a condition." which is apostasy.
Vine goes on to say "The wore ekousios, 'wilfully', means deliberately, with settled intention, not by a sudden impulse of the will. The word is used elsewhere in the N.T. only in 1 Pet. 5:12."

Vine says "Receiving the knowledge of the truth is simply the mental apprehension of the doctrines of the Christian faith.
"When the Hebrews now spoken of made a profession of accepting Christianity, they renounced the sacrifices for sin under the Law. But now, in turning away from their professed faith, they renounced the sacrifice of Christ."

J. Vernon McGee puts it this way: If a person rejects the truth of Christ's death for sin, there is no other sacrifice for sin available, and there is no other way to come to God."

Hebrews 10:4 For [it is] not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

The reason being they have to sacrifice every year and it never took sins away.

Chuck, sanctification is for believers only.

Also, [SUP]20[/SUP]If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. [SUP]21[/SUP]It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. ~2 Peter 20-21

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is (g2076 ἐστί esti, 3rd person singular "to be"), and [that] he is a rewarder ofthem that diligently seek him.

It isn't just enough to have the facts. It is important to believe that God is to be.

"That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;"-Philippians 3:10

The word for "know" here is ginōskō which means to feel, to perceive, understand. It is an experiential knowledge of having a reality with Jesus.

Nicodemus said,"..Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God:.." (John 3:2)

The word for "know" here is eido and it means to have knowledge of. Nicodemus was saying that they have all the information they need. But having all the information doesn't make you "born again" (John 3:3).

Is knowing about Jesus enough? You decide:

Acts 19:13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.
Acts 19:14 And there were seven sons of [one] Sceva, a Jew, [and] chief of the priests, which did so.
Acts 19:15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?
Acts 19:16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.

Therefore I believe the "know" in Hebrews 10:26 is just a knowledge of the facts. Like how we fall asleep at the facts in Math class. We need an experiential knowledge of Jesus as Philippians 3:10 says:

"That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;"-Philippians 3:10

Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Knowledge is not enough. With the heart man believeth unto righteousness. The heart will always make a convert of the mind.

Isaiah 29:13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near [me] with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

The first three verses talk about "us":

Hebrews 6:1 ¶ Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Hebrews 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Hebrews 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.

The next couple of verses talk about "them". It is talking about the Jewish or Hebrew believers who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift. It is not talking about us because if you study the Bible there are words "turn" and "return" because there are exortations to come back to God like the parable of the prodigal son who returned. John tells us in 1 John 1:8-9 that if any man sins that and if we confess our sins He is faithful to forgive us and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. And Hebrews 4:15 says "For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin. " so the Bible has opportunities for forgiveness, healing, restoration and the opportunity to turn back to God. These verses can't be saying that if we fall away then it is over. 1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Hebrews 6:4 For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Hebrews 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Hebrews 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.

We aren't part of this. There are five participles here:
for those who were once enlightened
have tasted of the heavenly gift
tasted the good word of God
and have fallen away (the word "if" here can mean "and" as in "and have fallen away")

If doesn't say,"if they shall fall away". The word "If" can mean "and" and I looked it up.

Hebrews 6:9 ¶ But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

As believers, we have gone on in the basic things. We know the truth in regards to Christ.

It is written to a group of Jewish believers that came to a knowledge of the truth. They tasted of the heavenly gift. They were made partakers of the Holy Ghost. They had fallen away. They tasted and had fallen away. It is impossible to renew them again to repentance.

They joined the ranks of those of Pontius Pilate and the High Priest before the and those before the crucifixion. If you've come into that much light and that much reality and then you fall away and go back to the Levitical system, you're numbered among those who crucified the son of God because you're saying He's not the son of God. What would there be to go back to?

We've moved onto the truth.

-My notes from Pastor Joe's MP3 online.

There are four classes if conditional clauses:

1. 1st class conditional clause is the condition of fact. May be translated "since"
2. 2nd class conditional clause is a condition contrary to fact.
3. 3rd class conditional clause is a condition of high probability
4. 4th class conditional clause is a condition of low probability

The Greek ei with the indicative denotes actual rather than potential condition, and in some versions is translated "since," e.g., Col 3:1, NIV.

continued...

Chuckt, where is Hebrew 6:8? Where it speaks of that which beareth thorns and briers being "nigh to the cursing" there?

 

[Chuckt]

Chuckt, where is Hebrew 6:8? Where it speaks of that which beareth thorns and briers being "nigh to the cursing" there?

Brier - Definition and Meaning, Bible Dictionary

They are probably false prophets or teachers.

In order to do Bible interpretation, you have to interpret the Bible by the clear and easy to understand verses instead of the unclear and hard to understand verses.

These are the clear verses that people reject for their own destruction:

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


John 5:24 ¶ Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.


John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent


John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:


John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

 

[Gr8grace]

Chuckt, where is Hebrew 6:8? Where it speaks of that which beareth thorns and briers being "nigh to the cursing" there?

Hard for most, yet simple. Get rid of bias..............here is truth:

New American Standard Bible
If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

Brier - Definition and Meaning, Bible Dictionary

They are probably false prophets or teachers.

In order to do Bible interpretation, you have to interpret the Bible by the clear and easy to understand verses instead of the unclear and hard to understand verses.

These are the clear verses that people reject for their own destruction:

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


John 5:24 ¶ Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.


John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent


John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:


John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Yes, I know what they are, I was just curious why they were overpast there, the verse after is posted (concerning being persuaded of better things though they speak thus) but that wasnt adressed but I know you are taking pieces from others studies as well.

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

Hard for most, yet simple. Get rid of bias..............here is truth:

New American Standard Bible
If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

I dont believe false prophets are saved

But I do believe works are tried by fire

 

[Chuckt]

Yes, I know what they are, I was just curious why they were overpast there, the verse after is posted (concerning being persuaded of better things though they speak thus) but that wasnt adressed but I know you are taking pieces from others studies as well.

The second article I posted here was a debate from Pastor Larry and myself but I mainly included my own material which included material I reearched..

Romans 8:1¶ There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

Thanks Chuckt

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Hard for most, yet simple. Get rid of bias..............here is truth:

New American Standard Bible
If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Wood, hay and stubble are not the same things as briars and thorns nigh unto cursing.

 

[Chuckt]

Wood, hay and stubble are not the same things as briars and thorns nigh unto cursing.

King James Bible
As the bird by wandering, as the swallow by flying, so the curse causeless shall not come.

Since a curse causeless shall not come to Christians because this is a promise, the thorns nigh unto cursing were not Christians but unbelieving people which is why the context switches from "us" in verses 1-3 to "them" in verses 4-8.

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

I wouldnt call them belonging to Christ no more then the tares are wheat, but do some people believe the tares saved by fire now something?

I cant keep up with the doctrines out there these days, so I dont know what some of the new things are that are being taught.

 

[coby]

Nice but still the Bible warns for a falling away and lamps gone out and foolish virgins, so I prefer to listen to the warnings and be awake and pray for others too.

 

[mailmandan]

The last person I was witnessing to was teaching sinless perfection and only Jesus could take the scroll in heaven because only Jesus was worthy. They don't care that 1 John 1:8-9 says if we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves. I witness to some far off people who teach that you can be perfect:

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect (g5046 τέλειος teleios), even as your Father which is in heaven isperfect (g5046 τέλειος teleios).

I was trying to tell them that "perfect" can mean "mature" but only half the Bibles I survey hold to that opinion:

Philippians 3:15 NKJV Therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this mind; and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you.

New King James Version, © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc. All rights reserved. Used by permission.

They don't care that it was by the offering of Jesus' death on the cross that caused us to be perfected:

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

They teach that if you sin wilfully then you can't be saved and they use this verse:

Hebrews 10:26 ¶ For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Who hasn't sinned once since they were saved? Don't answer that..

They can't understand that we all sin and all sin is willful.

“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.”-I John 3:9

“Note: In 1 John 3:4, 8, 9, the KJV wrongly has ‘commit’ (an impossible meaning in v.9; the RV rightly has ‘doeth,’ i.e., of a continuous habit, equivalent to prasso, ‘to practice.’ The committal of an act is not in view in that passage.”

P.113, Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words

“First John 3:9 is in the present continuous tense and should be translated ‘Whoever is born of God does not continually practice sin.”-Dr. Norman Geisler, p.539 “When Critics Ask”

“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.”-1 John 1:8

Can a believer lose his salvation? I believe this is keeping with my view on Hebrews 6:4 and how it is talking about Hebrew believers and the writer uses the pronoun “them” instead of “us”. I believe this verse is talking about an apostate or someone who heard but never really believed and those who hear the gospel and don’t believe seem to disintegrate (Romans 1:21-25). In your opinion, is this verse about a believer who walked away or turned away from God?

Hebrews 10:26 ¶ For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge (g1922 ἐπίγνωσις epignōsis) of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

This is not a divine knowledge and the example is in its definition of “knowledge”:

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/...gs=G1922&t=KJV
1) precise and correct knowledge

a) used in the NT of the knowledge of things ethical and divine

A definition for divine knowledge may be Philippians 3:10:

Philippians 3:10 That I may know (g1097 γινώσκω ginōskō) him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/...gs=G1097&t=KJV

1) to learn to know, come to know, get a knowledge of perceive, feel

a) to become known

I believe part of the context of Hebrews 10:26 is found in verses 27 and 28 that they are “adversaries” (v.27) and they “despised Moses law” and we might look to examples of people who despised Moses law and who died with two or three witnesses.

Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

The three parts of Hebrews 10:29 are (1) “hath trodden under foot the Son of God”, (2) “hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing” and (3) “hath done despite (to insult or treat shamefully) unto the Spirit of grace”. Insulting God sounds like the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit where they are no longer interested in the things of God.

Can these three things be in contrast to some of the previous verses in the chapter?

“…wherewith he was sanctified…” sounds like they cleansed themselves externally to me and didn’t cleanse themselves internally. We need to have our hearts sprinkled internally and have our bodies washed internally:

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/...ongs=G37&t=KJV

Hebrews 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
Hebrews 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of [our] faith without wavering; (for he [is] faithful that promised

Hebrews 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

Is Hebrews 10:29 contrasted with Hebrews 10:22, 23 and 24?

My questions are, why aren't they cleansed and why does God remember their sin?

Hebrews 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

My final question is, why aren't they perfected? Did they not believe?

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

I'm not dating Jesus but if someone broke up with me and I said I'm going to go out and sin wilfully (Heb. 10:26) then am I really saying the same thing that I'm sanctified unto?

1 John 1:9 If we confess (g3670 ὁμολογέω homologeō) our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

homologeō
1) to say the same thing as another, i.e. to agree with, assent
2) to concede
a) not to refuse, to promise

insulted the Spirit of grace? Can even the reprobate be temporarily sanctified and in the covenant? So, we have those who have shared in the Holy Spirit and those who were sanctified by the blood of the covenant falling away and insulting the Spirit of grace! Sharing in the Holy Spirit and being sanctified are experiences for believers only.
1 Corinthians 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

Potiphar's house was blessed because of Joseph.

I can see someone using the same argument for believing child baptism sanctifies them but I'm not at all saying you do.

The difference, Chuck, is that these were sanctified by the blood of the covenant. That is a privilege for believers only. How can a non-believer, void of the Spirit and bound for hell, insult the Spirit of grace?

How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? Can even the reprobate be temporarily sanctified and in the covenant?

The same way they were sanctified by the blood of the old covenant. They didn't believe. It is sort of like community churches. They go to church because there is community there and not because they believe. They go to church because their parents went to church but they didn't change. They said the sinner's prayer so to speak but it is by believing that you are saved:
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

The question is: Can you cry crocodile tears and be saved? Can you be in anathema and be saved?

1 Corinthians 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God
Galatians 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Do people really believe or are they just crying crocodile tears? It is easy to say you believe. I had a professor lie to me and she did not at all live like she believed. How can I tell you whether a person believes or not? I can't. What kind of person are they after they say they believe and which direction do they walk? The wheat looks just like the tares. We can't tell but God can tell. But I would place my belief on the fact that such people are insincere or lieing. People are fickle. According to my sociology textbook, people lie on the average of 200 times a day and I have researched this independently.

Vine says the verb rendered "sin" is "in the present continuous tense, signifying, not an act or a series of acts, but a condition." which is apostasy.
Vine goes on to say "The wore ekousios, 'wilfully', means deliberately, with settled intention, not by a sudden impulse of the will. The word is used elsewhere in the N.T. only in 1 Pet. 5:12."

Vine says "Receiving the knowledge of the truth is simply the mental apprehension of the doctrines of the Christian faith.
"When the Hebrews now spoken of made a profession of accepting Christianity, they renounced the sacrifices for sin under the Law. But now, in turning away from their professed faith, they renounced the sacrifice of Christ."

J. Vernon McGee puts it this way: If a person rejects the truth of Christ's death for sin, there is no other sacrifice for sin available, and there is no other way to come to God."

Hebrews 10:4 For [it is] not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

The reason being they have to sacrifice every year and it never took sins away.

Chuck, sanctification is for believers only.

Also, [SUP]20[/SUP]If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. [SUP]21[/SUP]It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. ~2 Peter 20-21

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is (g2076 ἐστί esti, 3rd person singular "to be"), and [that] he is a rewarder ofthem that diligently seek him.

It isn't just enough to have the facts. It is important to believe that God is to be.

"That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;"-Philippians 3:10

The word for "know" here is ginōskō which means to feel, to perceive, understand. It is an experiential knowledge of having a reality with Jesus.

Nicodemus said,"..Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God:.." (John 3:2)

The word for "know" here is eido and it means to have knowledge of. Nicodemus was saying that they have all the information they need. But having all the information doesn't make you "born again" (John 3:3).

Is knowing about Jesus enough? You decide:

Acts 19:13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.
Acts 19:14 And there were seven sons of [one] Sceva, a Jew, [and] chief of the priests, which did so.
Acts 19:15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?
Acts 19:16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.

Therefore I believe the "know" in Hebrews 10:26 is just a knowledge of the facts. Like how we fall asleep at the facts in Math class. We need an experiential knowledge of Jesus as Philippians 3:10 says:

"That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;"-Philippians 3:10

Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Knowledge is not enough. With the heart man believeth unto righteousness. The heart will always make a convert of the mind.

Isaiah 29:13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near [me] with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

In Hebrews 10:26, To "sin willfully" in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is CONTINUOUS ACTION - A MATTER OF PRACTICE. Now we don't walk along our daily life and accidently fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows a CONTINUOUS ACTION. The unrighteous practice sin - 1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21 not the righteous, who are born of God - 1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9.

The reference to "the blood of the covenant that sanctified him" in v. 29 seems to be referring to a Christian, but this overlooks the fact that the word translated "sanctified" (which is a term often applied to Christians; it is the verb form of the adjective "holy") really just means "set apart," and doesn't necessarily refer to salvation. In 1 Corinthians 7:14, Paul uses it to specifically refer to non-Christians who are "sanctified" or "made holy" by their believing spouse. (And by this Paul does not mean that they are saved). A non-Christian can be "set apart" and from other non-Christians and sinful things without experiencing salvation as Paul clearly explained. So the word "sanctified" means to be "set apart." If the word "sanctified" simply meant saved, then you would have to say that the Sabbath was saved (Genesis 2:3), the tabernacle was saved (Exodus 29:43), the Lord was saved (Leviticus 10:3), the Father saved the Son (John 10:36) and many other things that just do not line up with scripture.

In verse 39, the author sets up the contrast that makes it clear to me that he was referring to unbelievers, not saved people: But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition. So after considering the context, it seems most likely that "he was sanctified" should be understood in the sense of someone who had been "set apart" or identified as an active participant in the Christian community of believers, but who has subsequently committed apostasy by renouncing his identification with other believers, by rejecting the "knowledge of the truth" that he had received, and by repudiating the work and the person of Christ himself. Such a person’s apostasy is thus evidence that his identification with the Christian community was only superficial and that he was not a genuine believer.

In regards to 2 Peter 2:20, it isn't enough to have the knowledge of Jesus Christ if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. Compare 2 Peter 1:4 - "partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption - Strongs #5356 that is in the world through lust with 2 Peter 2:20 - with they escaped the pollutions - Strongs #3356 (different Greek word) of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, yet they are again entangled therein, and overcome. *Notice that 2 Peter 2:20 did not mention them being "partakers of the divine nature."

Corruption (Strongs #5356) (to shrivel or wither, spoil , ruin , deprave, corrupt , defile, to destroy by means of corrupting, to spoil as does milk). Corruption - describes decomposition or rotting of an organism and the accompanying stench. The utter depravity of the fallen flesh and the resultant moral decomposition of the world opposed to God is driven by it sinful lusts or evil desires. Internal corruption.

Pollutions/Defilements (Strongs #3393) ("pollutions", "filthy things", "contaminations", "world's filth") describes the state of being tainted or stained by evil and refers to impurity, impure, tainted, defilement, foulness or pollution. *Pollutions/Defilement refers to what is on the outside (2 Peter 2:20). But true believers have escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust (2 Peter 1:4).

*Corruption is deeper than pollutions/defilements on the outside: it is decay on the inside. True believers have received a new nature, a divine nature, and they have new and different appetites and desires. They have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep. The change is more than just cosmetic, as in 2 Peter 2:20.

 

[DP]

The first three verses talk about "us":

Hebrews 6:1 ¶ Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Hebrews 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Hebrews 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.

The next couple of verses talk about "them". It is talking about the Jewish or Hebrew believers who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift. It is not talking about us because if you study the Bible there are words "turn" and "return" because there are exortations to come back to God like the parable of the prodigal son who returned. John tells us in 1 John 1:8-9 that if any man sins that and if we confess our sins He is faithful to forgive us and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. And Hebrews 4:15 says "For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin. " so the Bible has opportunities for forgiveness, healing, restoration and the opportunity to turn back to God. These verses can't be saying that if we fall away then it is over. 1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Hebrews 6:4 For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Hebrews 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Hebrews 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.

....

continued...

I disagree. What Paul (mostly Paul who wrote Hebrews), showed there is about a believe who once experienced the heavenly gifts, having been given evidence, but then they turn away from the Faith. It's a matter of unbelief unto accountability.

Heb 6:4-8
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,


5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,


6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put Him to an open shame.


7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:


8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
KJV



It's not talking about a believer who has sins; it's about a believer that has had Divine experience from their Faith, and then they turn away from Christ completely.

An example would be a Christian who gets involved with a sex cult that practices witchcraft, and he/she then accepts their beliefs instead and rejects Christ Jesus.

When The Father and The Son give you proof by your Faith, and gives you experience of His spiritual gifts, to reject the Faith after that is to make one's choice against Him in a state of full... accountability. That is actually what the unpardonable sin is about against The Holy Spirit, i.e., to have been given full proof and then reject it.

 

[Grace777x70]

Here is a short 3 minute video showing about Hebrews 6....we must take the book of Hebrews in context...


[video=youtube;FZ4RjEqfXOg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ4RjEqfXOg[/video]

 

[Grace777x70]

Here is a longer in depth teaching on Hebrews 6....we need to look at it in context..we can't take a scripture out of it's context...if you notice in verse 9...the author starts talking to believers ( after describing unbelievers in verse 4-8 ).."But you beloved.."..from verse 9 on they talks to believers in Jesus..


[video=youtube;ymCgHPu7Nz4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymCgHPu7Nz4[/video]

 

[Chuckt]

I disagree. What Paul (mostly Paul who wrote Hebrews), showed there is about a believe who once experienced the heavenly gifts, having been given evidence, but then they turn away from the Faith. It's a matter of unbelief unto accountability.

Heb 6:4-8
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,


5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,


6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put Him to an open shame.


7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:


8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
KJV



It's not talking about a believer who has sins; it's about a believer that has had Divine experience from their Faith, and then they turn away from Christ completely.

An example would be a Christian who gets involved with a sex cult that practices witchcraft, and he/she then accepts their beliefs instead and rejects Christ Jesus.

When The Father and The Son give you proof by your Faith, and gives you experience of His spiritual gifts, to reject the Faith after that is to make one's choice against Him in a state of full... accountability. That is actually what the unpardonable sin is about against The Holy Spirit, i.e., to have been given full proof and then reject it.

First of all, that is rediculous because if it was impossible to renew people to repentance then Jesus wouldn't go look for sheep that wandered off.


Matthew 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
Matthew 18:12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them
be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the
mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?


Matthew 18:13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he
rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not
astray.


Matthew 18:14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven,
that one of these little ones should perish.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count
slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish,
but that all should come to repentance.

Second, this is one of those passages you have to study or it is "heresy" at a glance.

Please study the following link:

https://carm.org/about-can-person-lose-salvation

 

[Stephen63]

I disagree. What Paul (mostly Paul who wrote Hebrews), showed there is about a believe who once experienced the heavenly gifts, having been given evidence, but then they turn away from the Faith. It's a matter of unbelief unto accountability.

Heb 6:4-8
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,


5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,


6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put Him to an open shame.


7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:


8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
KJV



It's not talking about a believer who has sins; it's about a believer that has had Divine experience from their Faith, and then they turn away from Christ completely.

An example would be a Christian who gets involved with a sex cult that practices witchcraft, and he/she then accepts their beliefs instead and rejects Christ Jesus.

When The Father and The Son give you proof by your Faith, and gives you experience of His spiritual gifts, to reject the Faith after that is to make one's choice against Him in a state of full... accountability. That is actually what the unpardonable sin is about against The Holy Spirit, i.e., to have been given full proof and then reject it.

It's amazing how they dance around the context only to cherry pick their verses to compile their doctrine.

I bet after they pull the rest out to leave only their doctrine they don't have enough pages to fill a comic book.

 

[DP]

First of all, that is rediculous because if it was impossible to renew people to repentance then Jesus wouldn't go look for sheep that wandered off.

No, it is not impossible. Otherwise we wouldn't have just that one Hebrews 6 example of someone turning away from the Faith.

2 Peter 2:17-22
17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
KJV