Question John the Baptist and Jesus

Rob625 · Mar 20, 2016

Question. In Luke ch 3 John baptized Jesus. Then later in Luke 7:19 he questions whether Jesus is the one or should they look for another. John should have already known him and that he was the son of God. Correct? And in the Gospel of John it says he saw the Holy Spirit descend on him. So he should have had no doubt. Any thoughts?

Yonah · Mar 20, 2016

after being imprisoned in a dark dungeon for some time he began to doubt himself and what he had seen, he needed encouragement, I don't think he doubted our Savior as much as his own perception of what hew saw, this I believe is why the Savior told his(Johns) disciples to tell him what they had seen that day, I believe this served to reconfirm to John it was He who he baptized.

p_rehbein · Mar 20, 2016

Rob625 said:

Could you provide the specific Scriptures and verses you are referring to?

That way we can consider them in context.

thanks........

Rob625 · Mar 20, 2016

Sure Luke 3:21-22. Luke 7:18-23
John 1:32

resurrection33 · Mar 20, 2016

Rob625 said:

John didn’t know what we know. We have the benefit of the New Testament to tell us what happened. John only knew what he had seen and heard himself.

Jesus asked John to baptize him. That doesn’t mean John knew Jesus was the Messiah. John saw the Spirit of God alight on Jesus, but apparently John thought there might be someone even greater coming:

[13] Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to John, to be baptized by him.
[14] John would have prevented him, saying, "I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?"
[15] But Jesus answered him, "Let it be so now; for thus it is fitting for us to fulfil all righteousness." Then he consented.
[16] And when Jesus was baptized, he went up immediately from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and alighting on him;
[17] and lo, a voice from heaven, saying, "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased." Matt 3:13-17 RSV

Grace777x70 · Mar 20, 2016

John also knew that Jesus was the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world too...personally I think that because we humans judge so much by our circumstances that we can become hardened to the things of God when confronted with seemingly contradictory facts...perhaps this is what happened to John?

John 1:29 (NASB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] The next day he *saw Jesus coming to him and *said, "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

This is the answer Jesus gave to John's disciples when asked about whether Jesus is the One.

Matthew 11:4-6 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see:
[SUP]5 [/SUP] The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.

Most Jews were waiting for a Messiah to become King over them and were not considering the suffering Lamb first.....so maybe people back then were offended ( cause to stumble ) in Jesus because they didn't see this happening?

Rob625 · Mar 20, 2016

29 The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

This threw me off too. I believe this was the day after he baptized him. Thanks for the help

InSpiritInTruth · Mar 20, 2016

John confessed he did not know who Messiah was prior to Him being baptized.

John 1:31-36 "And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.[SUP]32 [/SUP]And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
[SUP]35 [/SUP]Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples;
[SUP]36 [/SUP]And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!"

So the word of God came to John in the wilderness and foretold of whom Messiah would be when John saw the Spirit descending upon Him like a dove. But prior to that John confessed he did not know who Messiah was. As to why John questioned this afterward is a mystery. But perhaps John just wanted to hear it from Jesus himself as to leave no room for doubt in others who also questioned if Jesus was in fact the Christ.

Rob625 · Mar 20, 2016

Good stuff guys. I was thinking too, that John probably had an idea of how things would go. And if things weren't happening like he expected them to, that it triggered his question of "hey is this really what I thought it was".

4enlightment · Mar 20, 2016

Rob625 said:

Matthew 3:10 The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.

John 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

Jonah 4:11 And should I not have concern for the great city of Nineveh, in which there are more than a hundred and twenty thousand people who cannot tell their right hand from their left—and also many animals?”

Luke 23:34 Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.” And they divided up his clothes by casting lots.

John 9:41 Jesus said, “If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.

John had thought that Jesus has came to condemned them all to hell, but he did not know that He came to save them from it.

FreeNChrist · Mar 20, 2016

Rob625 said:

That's right, and is most likely the source of Johns doubt. The Jews were expecting a messiah who would be a political savior. This Messiah was not living up to their expectations.

Bowman · Mar 20, 2016

Rob625 said:

John & Jesus were cousins, too.

Apparently, they never knew each other growing up according to the narrative...

JesusIsAll · Mar 20, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

This is also what I've always believed of John's seemingly peculiar question, though it's not something explained in scripture, one of those matters you have to look at what's most plausible an explanation you find peace with. The picture to me, and this just my opinion, John was sitting in prison, his life in jeopardy. As you state, the Messiah was seen coming as the King, who would usurp Rome and put down Israel's enemies, the suffering Messiah a mystery to people. Peter was, as if, "Heaven forbid!" that Christ proclaimed His death. (Even to this day, most Jews refuse to see the suffering Messiah.) John the Baptist finds himself in trouble, surely looking forward to possibly being executed by Herod, who he greatly offended, and I think he sees that the all-powerful Messiah King should do something about this, yet nothing is happening from our Lord on a political power level, and never has, prior to this, except for driving the money changers out of the temple (would imagine people who believed in Jesus errantly saw this as step one in some physical revolution they were expecting).

I've always seen it as a sort of coded message from John, an underlying theme of asking Jesus, "Are you going to do anything about all this?" And this because John was almost surely expecting the reigning King. That he pointed out the Lord Jesus, "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world," doesn't necessarily include John's knowledge of the suffering Messiah and blood of Christ, any more than other prophets understood many of their own prophecies the Spirit gave them. I don't see that John would have ever asked that question, had he knowledge of the suffering Messiah, had any inkling Israel did not have the reigning King soon in store. So, just my opinion, but the suffering Messiah being a hidden program would make sense, John expecting the King to take the throne and wondering, "What's going on?", that Jesus isn't deposing Herod and Rome, and springing John from prison. Perhaps John was more embolden to speak against Herod, believing he would have Christ's protection, who he could have seen as about to knock Herod off the throne, anyway.

You'll notice John making condemnations of Herod, publicly denouncing him, regardless being correct Herod was evil, really isn't in the spirit of other New Testament figures, the Lord and His apostles never mucking in the politics of the world, the kingdom of God and the gospel a spiritual matter, until God ordains it's time to rule. They were never actually seditious in intent, with rhetoric against kings, noting that Christ was accused of sedition for just teaching only God is the true King, teaching the coming kingdom of heaven, but never actually accusing Caesar of being a fraud, never publicly denouncing Caesar, the only sedition they could pin on Him was a logical conclusion the Jews drew, that Caesar can't be God in Christ's teachings, therefore Christ seditious. And so hypocritical, those same Jews who would claim the faith of Bible prophecy, the Old Testament proclaiming a coming Messiah King! That is, if they believed anything of their scripture, they'd also have to be seditious, in favor of God and against Caesar, themselves looking for that true King they well knew Caesar was not. How much of the devil was it, that they proclaimed their loyalty to Caesar only, "But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar."

posthuman · Mar 20, 2016

Rob625 said:

i don't think this is the day after he baptized Jesus -- i think it's the day after a group of people sent by the pharisees were questioning John about who he was, and he told them that he wasn't the Messiah. (as recorded in John 1:19-28)
the next day after that (John 1:29), Jesus came to him, and he recognized Him as the Lamb of God.

skylove7 · Mar 20, 2016

#13
Great post JesusIsAll....
And I would like to thank you for stating a few times how it was 'just your opinion'

That was very kind to say....when the 'self righteous' tend to claim their opinion to be truth in scriptute

Nice....I liked it!

Oh a question to.....
This may come from opinion. It's fine, but Bowman stated in post # 12 how Jesus and John did not communicate as children.
I am just curious your thoughts.
Did Mary keep Jesus quite sheltered as a child? Could this be why he didn't know John?
Or should I even ask this lol since the bible doesn't cleary say

Thank you everyone
How beautiful, as always
A Jesus and John thread to my heart

Rob625 · Mar 20, 2016

posthuman said:

i don't think this is the day after he baptized Jesus -- i think it's the day after a group of people sent by the pharisees were questioning John about who he was, and he told them that he wasn't the Messiah. (as recorded in John 1:19-28)
the next day after that (John 1:29), Jesus came to him, and he recognized Him as the Lamb of God.

Yep your right i read it wrong

JesusIsAll · Mar 20, 2016

skylove7 said:

Thank you, but no need to thank me for expressing it's opinion! I get irked by people who make certain claims without sound scripture foundation, that are most always in the realm of some private interpretation, contrary to much prevalent scholarship, and speak as if their shaky or even groundless claims are fact. I see it a sign, a red flag of deception, more than anything else. And you see a lot of this. I would pray to always be aware, when expressing some extrapolation that reaches into opinion. Even some real giants, like John Walvoord, were careful to say "I think," of "I believe," and explain why, but never in a matter-of-fact manner, in matters where we have to reach for "plausible explanations," as he often put it. Paul was clear, when he spoke as a man. All the greatest pastors I've known the same.

As to the relationship of the Lord Jesus and John the Baptist in their formative years? I don't recall seeing anything in scripture, only some weirdness in the apocrypha, years ago, about the child Jesus, and don't recall John mentioned, at that. So, if there's anything, I got nuthin', anyway! Sounds like a matter for Google, though I fear where that may lead, from all the false Prophets R Us, as prolific as weeds.

JesusIsAll · Mar 20, 2016

Rob625 said:

Wow! Somebody on ChristianChat that will own up to being mortal? You must be after God's own heart, these days!

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