Who's the Head of the Church

The Bible tells us that Christ is head of the Church. (Eph 1:22, 5:23 Col 1:18) That he purchased it with his own blood and will be returning for it someday soon is without controversy. The type and figure we are given to understand this relationship is a husband to his wife, and inversely, a wife to her husband. Paul spoke about Christ sanctifying and cleansing his Church, so, "That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish." (Eph 5:27)

We are also given the parable of the 10 Virgins in Matthew 25 who go to meet the bridegroom. Some having oil, and some not. However they are all "virgins", which according to scripture means "knowing no man" (Luke 1:34) The picture of the Church is one of an espoused virgin awaiting the coming of the bridgroom.

And not this only. We find in scripture that the "mystery" of the Church was hid until revealed through Paul. The Church was CREATED by and for our Lord Jesus.

If this be the case, why is there and alarming and disturbing trend among "Christian churches" to yoke themselves with the State?

The first Amendment guarantees "religous freedom", so declaring that the church needs exemption from taxes, can not be the case. Particularly when the IRS states in it's own documents that churches are exmpt from filing a 1023. (Which makes one wonder if the purpose of filing this form among 501 C3 organizations, is to act as a tax collector for the IRS...but I digress.) http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p557.pdf (pg.9)

Churches are already tax exempt, thanks to the men who founded this country. And even if churches weren't tax exempt, this status would mean that the Bride of Christ is receiving "benefits" and "gifts" from the State/Ceasar. I'm positive no man who is engaged to a woman would like to find that during their engagement, she is receiving gifts from other men.

Secondly, upon signing a 501 C3 tax exemption, your church, becomes a business with a stamp of date and time of birth. Consequently, your church, not only ceases being a church, but becomes a "creature of the state" (Hale V Hinkle). If Ceasar (ie the State) is head of your church, it ultimately belongs to "the god of this world" (2 Cor 4:4 Luk 4:5,6). I've heard such silly responses like "Well Jesus is Head too!", but who ever heard of a two-headed creature that wasn't a monstrosity? No man can serve two masters.

I've heard some tell me that it's the law and that you must register your church with the State, however a look at the IRS document on the matter specifically states that churches are exempt. In fact, due to the 1st Ammendment churches CANNOT pay taxes, therefore you have to declare that you are not a church but a business. Hence your pastors and elders are only called so by you. They are resognized and recognize themselves as Presidents and Directors of the Board!

I'm wondering if any blood washed Christians reading this could give me one valid reason for yoking up with the world (501C3) to be occuring among their congregation as a whole? Thank you.

If your in Florida and you want to find out if your church is actually a church or an incorporated business, type in it's name in the search box at www.sunbiz.org.

[jimmydiggs]

God...........

Thanks for responding. Now can you give me one good reason for churches to be yoking up with the State?

[jimmydiggs]

I don't go to church, so I am not part of this equation, and as such, I do not feel that I have any say in this; however, to help you in looking for others opinions. I honestly do not know what to say. I am 17, while I am very intelligent and knowledgeable for my age, I still have yet to become a biblical scholar. Ask me about quadratic equations, business theory, and other educationally related subjects, and I can answer.

[mrpower]

BrettViars, How are you.
Firstly Im reminded of Jesus's own words. render ceasar's unto ceasar. Now i dont know how your system works in america. In australia, churches are also mostly exempt from taxes here.. (though we don't have a constitution as you know it) unless of course they become a business. They still get heaps of exemptions but they have to be put on the "map" if you will, to get those exemptions.
My church for example is connected to a retirement village and helps with it's day to day running, has a cafe that does the lunches for the local christian school, allowing, it also allows the seniors and church staff, and anyone that wants it to come and have lunch at prices so low i couldnt believe it.
They also run a bible college through the church.
All these things are blessed and only serve to strengthen the kingdom of God, but we must be "registered" in all these things to do them.
If we just decided that we wanted to be just a church, sure.. we could have a building and just run a church and that would be fine. But to do all these other "business" related activities, to bless the community, and the whole world, we need to be registered and accountable.
Whilst i don't particularly agree with the system we have to work within, It is called to us to save them. And seriously mate, do you think we can save the system before Jesus comes back?? I think we are called just to save his lost sheep.. I'm not saying don't get into politics, or anthropology if that's your passion, and whilst I think Christians should be called to be "greenies" and politicians if anyone is... It's still my personal belief, after struggling with ways to save this world (noun) that only Jesus is going to save it completely upon his return.

So just to wrap up.. while I can do more work for the kingdom of God within, rather than from without the system, I will continue.
If the state sufficently turns on the Chirch of Christ in my life, I will continue to fight the situation demands of me.

[wattie]

Who is the head of the church?

Jesus

Jesus and the disciples were the first church.. the first congregation/assembly.. and from there further churches were planted by the disciples and the apostles under the same authority.

The pastor of a church is not the head.. a pope is not the head.. a bishop isn't.. a steward isn't.

As for the paying/not paying tax thing.... if this were the only thing a church wasn't getting right, but had their doctrine straight.. worshipped Jesus with a pure heart.. carried out the Great Commandment and Commission.. then I think Jesus would be able to look past whether paying taxes was right or not.

But on this issue.. if the laws of the country state that a charitable trust is exempt from taxes, and most churches are legally charitable trusts - then what is the problem? The churches would be obeying the society law.. not violating it. And isn't this what Jesus meant by rendering to Caeser? Obeying what laws the society has?

There is the principle of violating the law if it is in complete opposition to christianity.. but I don't think that is what is going on with churches being tax free.

The Constitution already guarentees tax exemption for churches. There is no law requiring churches to register for tax exemption (or anything else) with the government. So it isn't a question of obeying the law or not.

Interestingly enough when a 501 C3 is signed, the organization becomes stamped with a time/date stamp of it's "birth". The courts have also ruled that a 501 C3 organization is a "creature of the State". (Hale v. Hinkle) A creature is "created"...and the question becomes 'Created by whom'?

It is right that false doctrines are rampant within Christianity and perhaps that is because the churches are operating with another spirit as their Head. If Caesar is their creator...then the lusts of their father they will do.

As to following the system UNTIL the State interfers with worship of Christ...the State enters into agreement with the churches that it is the church's Head. Therefore the foundation is already destroyed....what can the righteous do?

I will try to find some information on non-profits in Australia. This issue in America leads to the IRS, which is only a collection agency for the IMF, which I'm positive also oversees the collection agency in Australia. The question would then become "How many of the Christian churches in Australia have also declared the State to be it's Head?"

[Consumed]

Taxes??render to ceasar what is ceasars ....Soveriegnty?? Jesus has been given all power and dominion. We are just sojourners(foreigners not of this world) passing thru here anyway, Judas didnt understand that fact.

[giantone]

Matthew 17:24 *¶And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?
25 *He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?
26 *Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.
27 *Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.

This scripture concerns paying tribute , a tax on people from other countries. Jesus said to pay them so no trouble is started. In verse 26 He says the children are free from this. Since our government doesn't have a problem with Churches not being taxed it should be O.K. biblically.

Also would we have less government control if they taxed Churches?

[Consumed]

dont be amazed when some bright politician stands up and says we need to tax churches now due to the global financial crisis, America id be concerned, 9trillion alot of money, 95%GDP by 2020, hmmm wouldnt surprise me, its just the worlds way lol. Seriously, well said brother on "so no trouble is started" give them what they want. If someone defrauds someone, let it go He says, how petty we can be with litigation and seeking blame and revenge, no wonder Moses struck the rock in the desert, in the desert and the people moaned even with the pillar of fire, manna, pheasants, red sea, plagues still gave Moses hard time,

Incorporation

"In" meaning "into"

"Corp" meaning "body"

Incorporation - being brought into the Body of the State

Weren't we brought into the Body of Christ? What man can serve two masters?

[giantone]

Originally Posted by BrettViars

Incorporation

"In" meaning "into"

"Corp" meaning "body"

Incorporation - being brought into the Body of the State

But isn't that true about many things, we may own our land and cars at the moment but we have to abide by the laws on our land and in our cars, I heard somewhere that legally the children are wards of the state, maybe I got that wrong i'm not certain. Christians are to obey the law and obey Christ. Thats not two masters though. Though an oppressive government does enslave it's people) so in that sense, yes two masters.

And then theres marriage, when you are married you are married to husband wife and state. and who said you need a licence to be married (though it is a good idea).

What I truly hate a government to do is pay for it's churches and all the people who go to them don't need to give a dime or do anything and the churches rot and die and get replaced by other religions taking residence in the buildings. muscles that don't get used shrivel up and die.

[giantone]

I thought of this biblical example of tax exempt priests
Genesis 47:22 *Only the land of the priests bought he not; for the priests had a portion assigned them of Pharaoh, and did eat their portion which Pharaoh gave them: wherefore they sold not their lands.

[QuestionTime]

Originally Posted by BrettViars

I'm wondering if any blood washed Christians reading this could give me one valid reason for yoking up with the world (501C3) to be occuring among their congregation as a whole? Thank you.

I agree with what you are saying. I think churches ought to be families and not businesses. In the book of Acts people met in homes, and anything beyond that has led to corruption. We ought to go back to meeting in homes and forget these church buildings and man created organizations. Corruption in the church will diminish that way, and people will be taught the truth of scripture.

Funny I should have just found this thread when I'm pondering creating a thread on the legitimacy of men becoming Pastors based on degrees given by Universities created by men. This wasn't the case in the Bible. In the Bible men became Deacons, Elders, Pastors and Bishops based on how Godly they were, not based on what degree they got at Bible College.

I have been continually shocked by some of the Pastor's I have seen - not to mention any names as much as I might like to - whose preaching does not tend to measure up in any wise with the preaching of the saints of old. They do not have correct understandings regarding the goodness and severity of God, leaning always too far towards the side of goodness. God help these men, because the Bible says their judgment will be severe.

In Conclusion, I will say this: Christianity as it exists now cannot be saved. Sincere believers must start over from scratch and live like the believers in the Book of Acts did. Then hopefully these mega-churches will empty out and the true Gospel will be preached again.

Quest

Giant One- you're both right to mention specifically the marriage issue, and the priestly issue (although that's one I have not run across or yet considered) 501 C3 is a marriage issue. The priestly passage is great, considering that we are found IN Christ (also: In his Body), who himself is a High Priest. And since our Constitutional Law is based on English common law (which is biblical based) you probably could go quite far in front of a judge with this argument (ie The Church is found in Christ, he's a High Priest, therefore the Church is tax exempt being a High Priest ). However it's probably just easier to put something like...

Congress shall make NO LAW respecting the establishment of religion

into your constitution. Great points GiantOne.

QuestionTime- Glad to hear this issue might be a blessing to your studies in some way. My wife and I have found that this issue seems to branch off into many areas. Corruption is the end result. For example, could the lack of proper pastorship be because a church agrees "not to preach against public policy"? If public policy is to uphold and strengthen the women's lib and homosexuality movements, then no one can preach against them. Pretty soon you have quote "Christian churches" with lesbian pastors leading. If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do? (Psalm 11:3)

IRS publication 557 is a long boring document, but it sheds a lot of insight into what is going on. A church recieves tax exemption (which it's already entitled to), and the ability to request "grants" from the government...in return all the government asks is that the Church calls the State (Caesar) it's creator and obeys it's will. And Caesar's way of doing things is not Jesus' way.

We couldn't be in more agreement about the issue of being ordained of God versus being ordained of men. I think that would be a wonderful topic to discuss. The Church is supposed to pick men that are full of the Holy Ghost (Acts 6:3), not one that have the best 'resume'. A tough hurdle for the Church today to be entirely biblical based in it's leadership, is finding a man, (only married once) that has his whole house (including children) in subjection (1 Timothy 3:4).

We pray the Lord's judgement will not be severe on the issue of 501 C3, however it's enough that judgement begins at the house of God(1 Peter 4:7) to make us emphatic that the Church should not be playing the Harlot with the State. As to churches starting over from scratch, there are wonderful blessed loopholes in these contracts where it is possible for the Church to disentangle herself and keep the things that are lawfully hers. There is legal help for this process as well.

Will be looking forward to your thread on the issue of proper ordination!