Daniels 70 weeks

[jb]

Messiah being cut off happened in the midst of the 70th week.

Wishful thinking! lol

Quite a novel way there to misinterpret the Scriptures!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Wishful thinking! lol

Quite a novel way there to misinterpret the Scriptures!

Actually it sinks the detached 70th week argument because the definite article (ה) is not used when referring to the 7-week and 62-week periods.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Actually it sinks the detached 70th week argument because the definite article (ה) is not used when referring to the 7-week and 62-week periods.

The messiah was to be cut off sometime after the 62-week period expired, not 69 weeks after the clock started.

Seventy weeks (no definite article) have been determined upon thy people, and upon the holy city, for sin to be ended, and to seal up transgressions, and to blot out the iniquities, and to make atonement for iniquities, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal the vision and the prophet, and to anoint the Most Holy. ​

And thou shalt know and understand, that from the going forth of the command for the answer and for the building of Jerusalem until Christ the prince [there shall be] seven weeks (no definite article), and sixty-two weeks (no definite article); and then [the time] shall return, and the street shall be built, and the wall, and the times shall be exhausted. ​

And after the sixty-two weeks (definite article), the anointed one shall be destroyed, and there is no judgment in him: and he shall destroy the city and the sanctuary with the prince that is coming: they shall be cut off with a flood, and to the end of the war which is rapidly completed he shall appoint [the city] to desolations. ​

And one week (no definite article) shall establish the covenant with many: and in the midst of the week (definite article) my sacrifice and drink-offering shall be taken away: and on the temple [shall be] the abomination of desolations; and at the end of time an end shall be put to the desolation. Daniel 9:24-26​

 

[abcdef]

Brother Ahwatukee,

I believe that I clearly said that Jesus was born at the beginning of the 69th week, 0 ad, est.,
was cut off in the middle of the week, died.
It clearly says, "AFTER" the 69th week in v 26, that all the things described in vs 26-27 will be done.

This passage links the cutting off of the Messiah directly to the destruction of Jerusalem, That's what the whole chapter is about! You cannot separate them and remain true to the meaning of the text.

Again, How can you change to a literal (7 yrs) in the middle of the passage? One week is 70 yrs.


My Brother Awatukee,

I don't believe there is anyone out there that is teaching exactly what I am saying.

Who is saying that the armies of Iran and it's allies will soon be standing in Jerusalem?

Who is saying that Israel will lose in the battle of Armageddon?

Who is saying that the fire from heaven, the 7th bowl, and the 7th trumpet are all the same?

Who is saying that the children of Israel, will lie dead in the streets of Jerusalem for 3 1/2 days.

Why are you trying to through me in a box with a bunch of people I don't even know?

I Love You Brother,

These events will unfold before our eyes, if we live long enough.

Brother John

 

[abcdef]

Brother dalconn,

I'm sorry for getting off topic.
I'll stick to the thread topic.

Brother John

 

[VCO]

anyone of any intelligence knows that no.3 is totally INACCURATE,

Let's see if that is FACT or just your opinion:

Daniel 9:25-27 (NKJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] "Know therefore and understand, That from the going forth of the command To restore and build Jerusalem Until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; The street shall be built again, and the wall, Even in troublesome times.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
[SUP]27 [/SUP] Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate."

9:27b. Daniel was told that "the ruler who will come" (v. 26) will place abominations on a wing of the temple. Christ referred to this incident: "You [will] see standing in the holy place the abomination that causes desolation" (Matt. 24:15). John wrote that the false prophet will set up an image to this ruler and that the world will be compelled to worship it (Rev. 13:14-15). But then his end will come (the end that is decreed is poured out on him). With his false prophet he will be cast into the lake of fire when Christ returns to the earth (Rev. 19:20; cf. Dan. 7:11, 26).

This future ruler, according to Gabriel, will make a covenant with "the many" for one week (seven years). "The many" evidently refers to Daniel"s people ( Daniel 9:24), ethnic Jews (cf. Daniel 11:39; Daniel 12:2). After three and one-half years, this Antichrist will terminate the sacrifices and offerings that he permitted these Jews to offer. Their ability to offer these sacrifices indicates that they will be back in the land worshipping at a rebuilt temple.
"The wing of abominations" may be a reference to a wing of the temple that is particularly abominable because of idolatry, possibly the pinnacle or summit of the temple. [Note: Young, p218; Whitcomb, p134.] Another interpretation takes "wing" figuratively, and sees Antichrist descending vulture-like on his prey. [Note: Archer, " Daniel ," p118.] Perhaps the simplest explanation is to take "on the wing of" in the sense of "with." Apparently the prince will appear in the Jerusalem temple when he ends the sacrifices.
Daniel 12:11 refers to a future stopping of the Jewish sacrifices, forty-two months before Messiah returns to the earth. Revelation 13:4-7 also describes this future ruler in harmony with what Gabriel revealed here. Jesus warned of him, too, in Matthew 24:15-28, as did the Apostle Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, and the Apostle John in 1 John 2:18. The complete destruction decreed by God and poured out on this prince will come, according to these passages, when Messiah returns to the earth.



This covenant could not have been made or confirmed by Christ at His First Advent, as amillenarians teach, because: (a) His ministry did not last seven years, (b) His death did not stop sacrifices and offerings, (c) He did not set up "the abomination that causes desolation" (Matt. 24:15). Amillenarians suggest that Christ confirmed (in the sense of fulfilling) the Abrahamic Covenant but the Gospels give no indication He did that in His First Advent.


As stated, the Antichrist will break his covenant with Israel at the beginning of the second half of the 70th "seven," that is, it will be broken for three and one-half years. This is called "a time, times, and half a time" (Dan. 7:25; 12:7; Rev. 12:14). The fact that this is the same as the three and one-half years, which in turn are equated with 1,260 days (Rev. 11:3; 12:6) and with 42 months (Rev. 11:2; 13:5), means that in Jewish reckoning each month has 30 days and each year 360 days. This confirms the 360-day Jewish year used in the calculations in the chart, "The 483 Years in the Jewish and Gregorian Calendars" (near Dan. 9:26a). Since the events in the 69 sevens (vv. 24-26) were fulfilled literally, the 70th "seven," yet unfulfilled, must likewise be fulfilled literally.

The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures by Dallas Seminary Faculty.

9:27 Then. This is surely the end of the age, the Second Advent judgment, because the bringing in of righteousness did not occur seven years after the death of the Messiah, nor did the destruction of Jerusalem fit the seven-year period (occurring thirty-seven years later). This is the future seven-year period which ends with sin’s final judgment and Christ’s reign of righteousness; i.e., the return of Christ and the establishment of His rule. These seven years constitute the seventieth week of Daniel. he shall confirm. He is the last-mentioned prince (v. 26), leader of the Roman sphere (cf. chs. 2; 7), the Antichrist who comes in the latter days. The time is in the future Tribulation period of “one week,” i.e., the final seven years of verse 24. He confirms (lit., causes to prevail) a seven-year covenant, his own pact with Israel, that will actually turn out to be for a shorter time. The leader in this covenant is the “little horn” of 7:7, 8, 20, 21, 24-26, and the evil leader found in NT prophecy (Mark 13:14; 2 Thess. 2:3-10; Rev. 13:1-10). That he is in the future, even after Christ’s First Advent, is shown by: (1) Matthew 24:15; (2) the time references that match (7:25; Rev. 11:2, 3; 12:14; 13:5); and (3) the end extending to the Second Advent, matching the duration elsewhere mentioned in Daniel (2:35, 45; 7:15ff.; 12:1-3) and Revelation 11:2; 12:14; 13:5. middle of the week. This is the halfway point of the seventieth week of years, i.e., seven years leading to Christ’s Second Coming. The Antichrist will break his covenant with Israel (v. 27a), which has resumed its ancient sacrificial system. Three and one-half years of Tribulation remain, agreeing with the time in other Scriptures (7:25; Rev. 11:2, 3; 12:14; 13:5, called “Great Tribulation,” cf. Matt. 24:21) as a period when God’s wrath intensifies. abominations... one who makes desolate. The Antichrist will cause abomination against Jewish religion. This violation will desolate or ruin what Jews regard as sacred, namely their holy temple and the honoring of God’s presence there (cf. 1 Kin. 9:3; 2 Thess. 2:4). Jesus refers directly to this text in His Olivet discourse (Matt. 24:15). See note on 11:31. the consummation. God permits this tribulation during the Antichrist’s persecutions and then ultimately triumphs by judging the sin and sinners in Israel (12:7) and in the world (cf. Jer. 25:31). This includes the Antichrist (11:45; Rev. 19:20), and all who deserve judgment (9:24; Matt. 13:41-43).

The MacArthur Bible Commentary. By Dr. John MacArthur, Jr.

This future ruler, according to Gabriel, will make a covenant with "the many" for one week (seven years). "The many" evidently refers to Daniel"s people ( Daniel 9:24), ethnic Jews (cf. Daniel 11:39; Daniel 12:2). After three and one-half years, this Antichrist will terminate the sacrifices and offerings that he permitted these Jews to offer. Their ability to offer these sacrifices indicates that they will be back in the land worshipping at a rebuilt temple.

"The wing of abominations" may be a reference to a wing of the temple that is particularly abominable because of idolatry, possibly the pinnacle or summit of the temple. [Note: Young, p218; Whitcomb, p134.] Another interpretation takes "wing" figuratively, and sees Antichrist descending vulture-like on his prey. [Note: Archer, " Daniel ," p118.] Perhaps the simplest explanation is to take "on the wing of" in the sense of "with." Apparently the prince will appear in the Jerusalem temple when he ends the sacrifices.


Daniel 12:11 refers to a future stopping of the Jewish sacrifices, forty-two months before Messiah returns to the earth. Revelation 13:4-7 also describes this future ruler in harmony with what Gabriel revealed here. Jesus warned of him, too, in Matthew 24:15-28, as did the Apostle Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, and the Apostle John in 1 John 2:18. The complete destruction decreed by God and poured out on this prince will come, according to these passages, when Messiah returns to the earth.
[h=1]Expository Notes of Dr. Thomas Constable

[/h]

 

[Ahwatukee]

I believe that I clearly said that Jesus was born at the beginning of the 69th week, 0 ad, est.,
was cut off in the middle of the week, died.

But Jesus wasn't born at the beginning of the sixty-ninth seven, for scripture states that he was cut off at that time. Here it is again:

"From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One,[SUP]f[/SUP] the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.

"Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing,"

Seven seven year periods, followed by sixty-two seven year periods.

Seven seven year periods to restore and rebuild Jerusalem. Followed by sixty-two seven year periods equaling sixty-nine seven year periods with Christ crucified at the end of that sixty-ninth seven year period. As I previously said, the last seven year period described in Dan.9:27 takes place after the Anointed One has been cut off.

This passage links the cutting off of the Messiah directly to the destruction of Jerusalem, That's what the whole chapter is about! You cannot separate them and remain true to the meaning of the text.

John, the destruction of the temple is not even mentioned in the prophecy. The only reason that you keep bringing it up is that you are listening to the teachings of preterism. The only two events that are mentioned are the restoring and rebuilding of Jerusalem and the Anointed One being cut off.

As I continue to plead with you, get away from those teachings that you have adopted and trust only in the word of God.

 

[Persuaded]

As I have read what is posted in this tread, I have come to the conclusion that no one has a clue as to the truth that is taught here.
I see a little truth here and their, but mostly I see speculation and opinions based on private interpretation.

 

[Ahwatukee]

As I have read what is posted in this tread, I have come to the conclusion that no one has a clue as to the truth that is taught here. I see a little truth he re and their, but mostly I see speculation and opinions based on private interpretation.

Then you need to do a lot more study in order to understand the truth of the matter.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

What part of Daniel 9:24-27 could not have been fulfilled in the 1st century?

If everything does have a fulfillment, what warrant is there to ignore that and project its fulfillment into the future?

 

[abcdef]

Brother Persuaded,

Would you care to get your "feet wet".
Jump right in and tell us your understanding of the 70 weeks.

In Love,

Brother John

 

[Persuaded]

Brother Persuaded,

Would you care to get your "feet wet".
Jump right in and tell us your understanding of the 70 weeks.

In Love,

Brother John

I would love to, but that can not be said in a few lines on this forum. I do not have time to nor would many take time to read.
When it comes to prophecy about the end times, it seems that everyone has his own understanding. The simple fact is that no one knows for sure when it comes to timing and the order of things.
Anyone who says they know exactly how things are going to unfold, that is speculation and opinion.
Every view is backed by selected verses, while other verses are ignored. i.e. Private interpretation.
NO ONE will know until it happens.
I have spent years studying, and I am satisfied in my mind that I am close to correct.
But I am not arrogant enough to say I am 100% right and if you disagree you are ignorant and unlearned, like some who post here do.

 

[abcdef]

Brother Ahwatukee,

Post #27,

Do you believe that the destruction of Jerusalem and the destruction of the temple can be separated?
Again look at the context of the Whole chapter.

All the things in vs 26-27 are linked together by the word AND AND AND, they are all completed by the end of the 69th week,70 ad.

In v 26, it says "after" this week, all these things will be completed, including the cutting off of of the Messiah,which was at the middle of the week, 33 yrs, and the words of v27.

I have a lot to say, (of course), but I'm stickin' to the tread!

Brother John

How can you switch from symbolic to literal in the middle of the passage?

In the context, it is clearly showing that A WEEK MEANS 70 YRS!

What "evidence" is there that the symbolism changed to literal?

Will soon meet Jesus in the air!

Brother John

 

[valiant]

Let's see if that is FACT or just your opinion:

Daniel 9:25-27 (NKJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] "Know therefore and understand, That from the going forth of the command To restore and build Jerusalem Until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; The street shall be built again, and the wall, Even in troublesome times.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
[SUP]27 [/SUP] Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate."





[/SIZE][/h]

lol anyone can 'prove' a theory by citing books which agree with them. But where are the SCHOLARLY books. Noticeably absent!!!

 

[valiant]

But Jesus wasn't born at the beginning of the sixty-ninth seven, for scripture states that he was cut off at that time. Here it is again:

"[/COLOR]From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One,[SUP]f[/SUP] the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.

"Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing,"

Seven seven year periods, followed by sixty-two seven year periods.

Seven seven year periods to restore and rebuild Jerusalem. Followed by sixty-two seven year periods equaling sixty-nine seven year periods with Christ crucified at the end of that sixty-ninth seven year period. As I previously said, the last seven year period described in Dan.9:27 takes place after the Anointed One has been cut off.



John, the destruction of the temple is not even mentioned in the prophecy. The only reason that you keep bringing it up is that you are listening to the teachings of preterism. The only two events that are mentioned are the restoring and rebuilding of Jerusalem and the Anointed One being cut off.

As I continue to plead with you, get away from those teachings that you have adopted and trust only in the word of God.

yes I will trust the word of God, and it is obvious that the destruction of Jerusalem and the cessation of temple sacrifices MUST coincide and that happens in the midst of the seventieth seven, any theory that ignores that is CLEARLY wrong ,

 

[KJV1611]

Looking for others input on Daniels prophecy shown below


Seventy Weeks of Prophecy (Daniel 9:20-27)


Chapter 9 verse 25 tells us that the event that will trigger the 490 years is a decree (see Neh 2:5) permitting the Jews to go back to Jerusalem and rebuild the city. (It is interesting that the event that will trigger the last seven years of this period will be the covenant of the Antichrist to protect the Jews. We find a decree at the beginning and at the end of the 490 years.) History tells us there were four different decrees relating to Jerusalem: Cyrus, Darius, and Artaxerxes all made decrees concerning the rebuilding of the temple (Ezra 1; 6, and 7); and Artaxerxes decreed that Nehemiah could return to rebuild the walls (Neh 2). This was in 445 B.C., and it is the decree Dan 9:25 is talking about; it took place nearly 100 years after Daniel received the message from God. Gabriel said that there would be a total of sixty-nine weeks, seven and sixty-two, between the giving of the decree and the arrival of Messiah, the Prince, in Jerusalem (69 x 7 = 483 years). Keep in mind that "prophetic years" in the Bible are not 365 days, but 360 days long. It has been calculated by scholars that there were 483 prophetic years between the decree in 445 B.C. and the day that Jesus rode into Jerusalem on Palm Sunday (cf. The Coming Prince by Sir Robert Anderson, Kregel, 1967).


But Gabriel divided these 483 years into two parts-seven weeks (7 x 7 = 49 years), and sixty-two weeks (62 x 7 = 434 years). Why? Well, it took forty-nine years to rebuild Jerusalem, and this was done (as Gabriel said) "in troublesome times." Read Nehemiah and see how difficult a task it was to restore the city. Then, 434 years later we come to Messiah, the Prince, who is "cut off' (His death on the cross) for the sins of the world. It was His death on the cross that accomplished the purposes given in v. 24. What followed His death? Did Israel accept Him and His message? No. They lied about Him, persecuted His messengers, stoned Stephen, and refused to acknowledge His kingship. What happened? Rome came and destroyed the city and wrecked the temple. The nation "cut off" Jesus Christ, so He cut them off from being a nation. Until May 14, 1948, Israel was not a free nation.


Rome is called "the people of the prince that shall come." Who is this prince? Not "Messiah the Prince," because that refers to Christ. "The prince that shall come" is Antichrist. He will be the leader of the restored Roman Empire. So, the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 was but an illustration of a future invasion and destruction to be led by Antichrist. This prince will make an agreement with the Jews to protect them from the other nations, and this agreement will be set for seven years. This final seven years is the completion of Daniel's 490-year period. Between the death of Christ and the signing of this covenant you have the entire Age of the Church, a "great parenthesis" in God's program. The 490 years are in operation only when Israel is in God's will as God's people. When Israel crucified Christ, she was set aside and the "prophetic clock" stopped ticking. But when the Antichrist signs his pact with Israel, then the last seven years of Daniel's "seventy weeks" will start being fulfilled. This seven-year period is known as the Tribulation, or the time of Jacob's trouble. It is described in Rev 6-19.


After three and a half years, Gog and her allies will invade Palestine (see Ezek 38-39), and God will judge them. Antichrist will invade the land, break his covenant, and set himself up as world dictator. He will stop all worship at the Jewish temple (see 2 Thess 2) and force the world to worship him and his image. This is the abomination of desolation (see Matt 24:15; John 5:43; Rev 13:1). How will this period end? Jesus Christ will return to earth, meet the rebel armies at Armageddon, and defeat them (Rev 19:11-21).

Daniel 9:27 KJV
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

He (Christ) confirmed the covenant made with Abraham for one week. In the middle of that week Jesus caused the sacrifice and oblation to cease by his shed blood. And for this abominination and the myriad of other abominations Jerusalem committed, Jesus left it desolate even until the very end and that which was written by the prophets was poured out on Jerusalem. That's what Daniel 9:27 is about.

 

[VCO]

I would love to, but that can not be said in a few lines on this forum. I do not have time to nor would many take time to read.
When it comes to prophecy about the end times, it seems that everyone has his own understanding. The simple fact is that no one knows for sure when it comes to timing and the order of things.
Anyone who says they know exactly how things are going to unfold, that is speculation and opinion.
Every view is backed by selected verses, while other verses are ignored. i.e. Private interpretation.
NO ONE will know until it happens.
I have spent years studying, and I am satisfied in my mind that I am close to correct.
But I am not arrogant enough to say I am 100% right and if you disagree you are ignorant and unlearned, like some who post here do.

Could this be the problem:

Matthew 7:21-23 (NKJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
[SUP]23 [/SUP] And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

John 10:27 (HCSB)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] My sheep hear My voice,
I know them,
and they follow Me.

 

[Persuaded]

Daniel 9:27 KJV
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

He (Christ) confirmed the covenant made with Abraham for one week. In the middle of that week Jesus caused the sacrifice and oblation to cease by his shed blood. And for this abominination and the myriad of other abominations Jerusalem committed, Jesus left it desolate even until the very end and that which was written by the prophets was poured out on Jerusalem. That's what Daniel 9:27 is about.

I agree 100% with your understanding.
I will add that the 70th week continued during Jesus ministry.
The time was suspended at His crucifixion and will began again when the man of sin is revealed.
There is no 7 year tribulation period and no peace tready between the man of sin and Israel.
When the time of tribulation begins at the man of sin's revealing, there will be about three and a half years until the return of Jesus and the end.

There I said it. Let the Bible Scholars begin their attack.

 

[Persuaded]

Here is a question for you Scholars---------
Daniel 8 mentions 2300 days and Daniel 12 mentions 1290 days, 1260 days, and 1335 days.
How do you fit those days into your end time understanding?

 

[abcdef]

Brother Persuaded,

Love You Brother!