VVhat is the Significance of Jesus' Divinity?

BenFTW · Apr 25, 2016

Today I've been chatting vvith an individual that doesn't believe in the Trinity (in the Trinitarian sense). He believes in Father God, Jesus the Son of God, and the Holy Spirit. He doesn't believe in Jesus' divinity. He does believe in Jesus' sacrifice and that His sacrifice is sufficient for salvation, for those that vvould believe and repent of their sins.

The question is, vvhat is the significance of Jesus being divine? VVhat is the significance of Jesus being God, instead of not being God? If Jesus isn't God, and He isn't divine, does that change anything? If He is, then vvhat repercussions are there for those that don't believe He is, but proclaim belief in Him as Savior (believing He died for them and resurrected, lived a sinless life by the povver of the Holy Spirit, etc)?

I suppose the question that arises is, is belief in Jesus as God a necessity for salvation? Can one be a born-again Christian vvithout the belief that Jesus is God?

RobbyEarl · Apr 25, 2016

Here is the picture my friend. You must believe that Jesus was born of a virgin and that of the Holy Spirit. If Jesus was born of man then He would be born in sin as we are and His Sacrifice unacceptable by the Father ( A lamb without blemish or spot).

Then we find in the gospel of John that Jesus is the word of God and nothing was made that was made with out the word of God. For God said let there be light and there was light. But Jesus also born of a women as God promised Eve.

So therefore. Jesus is both God and man. He is 100% God and 100% man.

In order to be saved you must believe that God sent His Son, His only Begotten son to die on the cross for you that you might be saved. I could go on but I think that'e enough.

Chuckt · Apr 26, 2016

BenFTW said:

The sin in the garden was a sin against God. Why? Man wanted to be like God:

Genesis 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

So therefore the penalty of sin has to be of equal weight of an infinite and eternal God which only an infinite and eternal God can pay. I have argued this with unbelievers but you wouldn't accept toast as a sacrifice if someone killed someone you knew. So basically only God can pay for your punishment so if Jesus isn't God then his punishment on the cross wasn't enough to satisfy God's wrath because the wages of sin is death (eternal separation) from God in an eternal hell.

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[TD]John 8:24 "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins."

The word "he" is in italics (John 8:24) which means it isn't in the original. Unless you believe "I am" (Ego eimi), you shall die in your sins. So what is Jesus saying?

Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

Jesus is saying He is the "I AM" of Exodus 3:14 that only applies to God.

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Hebrews 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Hebrews 10:5 ¶ Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

seed_time_harvest · Apr 26, 2016

BenFTW said:

Hello BenFTW
If JESUS had not been born of Incorruptible seed(HOLY SPIRIT),HE would have been born of the seed of Adam,making him weak because of the flesh and HIS sacrifice would not have been perfect.

And If he had not entered this world In the flesh,HE would not have come Into this world the righteous way,meaning HE needed to have a body to remain on this planet.

So then JESUS was fully GOD and fully man.

GOD gave dominion of this world to man and In order for something to be given to someone In truth,the person receiving the gift has to be able to do with the gift as they desire.

JESUS had to be fully man to fulfill GODs perfect standard of righteousness,righteously and no man except JESUS could do this because although HE was born of flesh,HE was also born of INCORRUPTIBLE seed.

The law was purifying the flesh but the sacrifice GOD would except had to be true In the Spirit and only GOD can clean the Inside.

So then once JESUS fully man and fully GOD finished fulfilling the law and dieing on the cross and satisfying the demands of the law.

Before HE left this world HE said,All power In earth and heaven belongs to me.I underlined earth because I am talking about dominion of the earth given to man and JESUS as a man took It back from satin.

coby2 · Apr 26, 2016

BenFTW said:

Today I've been chatting vvith an individual that doesn't believe in the Trinity (in the Trinitarian sense). He believes in Father God, Jesus the Son of God, and the Holy Spirit. He doesn't believe in Jesus' divinity. He does believe in Jesus' sacrifice and that His sacrifice is sufficient for salvation, for those that vvould believe and repent of their sins.

The question is, vvhat is the significance of Jesus being divine? VVhat is the significance of Jesus being God, instead of not being God? If Jesus isn't God, and He isn't divine, does that change anything? If He is, then vvhat repercussions are there for those that don't believe He is, but proclaim belief in Him as Savior (believing He died for them and resurrected, lived a sinless life by the povver of the Holy Spirit, etc)?

I suppose the question that arises is, is belief in Jesus as God a necessity for salvation? Can one be a born-again Christian vvithout the belief that Jesus is God?

Yes that's essential.
I am YHWH and besides Me there is no Saviour. Texts like that convinced a Jewish grand grand grand father that Jesus is the Messiah and Divine. Michael Brown has some good books on it.

Depleted · Apr 26, 2016

BenFTW said:

Well, if you don't have him as God, then you believe a liar, which, to me, makes no sense. Liars tend to do the opposite for me -- once they show themselves as liars, I can no longer believe a thing they say.

Jesus said he was Yahweh! John 8:48-59

As for the What ifs? What if there really was a one-eyed, one-horn flying purple people eater? What ifs are fun for the imaginations, but not for apologetics.

But can one be born again without knowing the divinity of Christ? Sure, but God's going to fix that one ASAP. Lots of stuff we get wrong in our beliefs, but he tends to make sure we get the important doctrine quickly.

oldhermit · Apr 26, 2016

BenFTW said:

Today I've been chatting vvith an individual that doesn't believe in the Trinity (in the Trinitarian sense). He believes in Father God, Jesus the Son of God, and the Holy Spirit. He doesn't believe in Jesus' divinity. He does believe in Jesus' sacrifice and that His sacrifice is sufficient for salvation, for those that vvould believe and repent of their sins.

The question is, vvhat is the significance of Jesus being divine? VVhat is the significance of Jesus being God, instead of not being God? If Jesus isn't God, and He isn't divine, does that change anything? If He is, then vvhat repercussions are there for those that don't believe He is, but proclaim belief in Him as Savior (believing He died for them and resurrected, lived a sinless life by the povver of the Holy Spirit, etc)?

I suppose the question that arises is, is belief in Jesus as God a necessity for salvation? Can one be a born-again Christian vvithout the belief that Jesus is God?

If one does not believe Jesus to be whom he says he is then one does not believe in Jesus, no matter what that person claims.

thepsalmist · Apr 26, 2016

oldhermit said:

I agree ...

A Muslim once told me he thought Jesus was a good man ... how can a liar be a good man?

Jesus said: "Before Abraham was, I AM"

HeRoseFromTheDead · Apr 26, 2016

If he wasn't diety, he wouldn't have been sinless.

JaumeJ · Apr 26, 2016

God became flesh, just like we all. He voluntarily suffered every temptation known to all men as a mere man like we all. He overcame all temptations, unlike we all.

He loves us so much, He demonstrated His love by dying on the cross, an agonizing death, just to defeat sin for us all so any who believe His love, believe Him would be saved.

The Creator lived as a creature just for us all who believe Him and accept His sacrifice.......Onde it was finished on the cross, He was glorified, He, His Body, and He returned to the Right Hand of Power. No one understands all of the mystery of our Savior and God, but we are given what we need to be saved.

He had to be God, I suppose, to convince so many of Salvation by His Blood.

FreeNChrist · Apr 26, 2016

BenFTW said:

If the Jesus someone believes in isn't God, then the Jesus they believe in isn't Jesus Christ.

There is the whole mediator thing, where because Jesus is both God and man He is able to represent both God and us.

But the main point of the incarnation is that God stepped into human history, in the person of Jesus Christ. Who of His own volition, voluntarily took upon Himself our sins and the consequences of our sin….instead of us, for us. Jesus is not a third party whipping boy, He is God Himself coming to us and doing for us what we could never do for ourselves. God could either judge sin in us or take those sins and their consequences upon Himself. In Christ, He chose the latter. Thank God.

BenFTW · Apr 26, 2016

It seems there are sites dedicated to showing how people who believe in the Trinity (like me) have it wrong. They show how the verses are taken out of context or are mistranslated (I find this.. convenient). For example, the person I spoke with kept emphasizing that certain verses that say God, with a capital "G" should've had a lowercase g. Meaning, as god in the sense of God's representative on the earth, like Moses was to Pharaoh.

I feel like as much as they can "go to the Greek" and show how people have it wrong, you will have people go to the Greek and show its right to interpret it as God, capitalized. I was trying to find a verse that paints it ever so clearly because it seems like they have their ways to excuse many verses. In chatting with this person it made me feel like I really need to be able to present Jesus' divinity in a clear and concise manner.

One that I found off of a site seemed plain enough.

Acts 20:28 King James Version (KJV)

28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Seems plain enough. VVho's church? Gods. VVhich He hath purchased with His own blood. Jesus, anyone?

Utah · Apr 26, 2016

John 1:1-5 is concise regarding Jesus' divinity.

BenFTW · Apr 26, 2016

Utah said:

I suppose I could've brought this verse up, but I was rather sure there would be a counter argument. Since its a big one. lol I was trying to find other verses that weren't the usual ones. But it always comes down to how they interpret the verse and then going back to the Greek, for an individual who denies Jesus as God, but still accepts Him as Savior. I felt disturbed, in my gut to say the least.

santuzza · Apr 26, 2016

If Jesus wasn't divine, He could not have been sinless. If He wasn't sinless, He could not atone for our sins. Simple as that.

On a lighter note, I'd like to know the the significance, however, of why BenFTW uses two Vs for his Ws.

BenFTW · Apr 26, 2016

santuzza said:

Keyboard is broken. lol

kaylagrl · Apr 26, 2016

BenFTW said:

Today I've been chatting vvith an individual that doesn't believe in the Trinity (in the Trinitarian sense). He believes in Father God, Jesus the Son of God, and the Holy Spirit. He doesn't believe in Jesus' divinity. He does believe in Jesus' sacrifice and that His sacrifice is sufficient for salvation, for those that vvould believe and repent of their sins.

The question is, vvhat is the significance of Jesus being divine? VVhat is the significance of Jesus being God, instead of not being God? If Jesus isn't God, and He isn't divine, does that change anything? If He is, then vvhat repercussions are there for those that don't believe He is, but proclaim belief in Him as Savior (believing He died for them and resurrected, lived a sinless life by the povver of the Holy Spirit, etc)?

I suppose the question that arises is, is belief in Jesus as God a necessity for salvation? Can one be a born-again Christian vvithout the belief that Jesus is God?

Quote "Can one be a born-again Christian vvithout the belief that Jesus is God?"

Not if you believe what Jesus said about himself.

Magenta · Apr 26, 2016

[TABLE="width: 600"]
[TR]
[TD]Matthew 1:23 - “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”

Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 43:10,11 - “You are My witnesses,” says the Lord, “And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me. I, even I, am the Lord, and besides Me there is no Savior.”

Revelation 1:17-18; Revelation 2:8 - (Jesus is the First and the Last)

Isaiah 44:6 - (God is the Redeemer)
2 Peter 1:1 (Jesus is the Redeemer) - “To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ”

Isaiah 44:24 - (God created the world by Himself alone)
John 1:3; Colossians 1:16 - (Jesus made all things)

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... 1:14 - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,

John 5:17,18 - “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.” Therefore the Jews sought to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.

John 5:23 - that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

John 8:24 - “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I AM [He], you will die in your sins.”

John 8:58 - Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

John 10:30-33 - Jesus answered them, “I and My Father are one.” Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?” The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”

John 14:6-7 - Jesus said to him, “I AM the way, the truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.”

John 14:9-11 - Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?”

John 20:28 - And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

Acts 4:12 - “Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

Acts 20:28 - (God purchased us with His own blood)
Revelation 1:5-6; Revelation 5:8-9 - (Jesus' blood purchased us)

Philippians 2:5-7 - Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bond-servant, and coming in the likeness of men.

Colossians 2:9 - For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily

1 Timothy 3:16 - And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

Titus 2:13 - looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ

Hebrews 1:8-9 - But to the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”

2 John 1:7 - For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Revelation 1:8 - “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Revelation 22:13 - “I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”... 22:16 - “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches.”

1 Timothy 6:14-16 - “our Lord Jesus Christ's appearing, which He will manifest in His own time, He who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.”[/TD]
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http://bugman123.com/Bible/JesusIsGod.html

seed_time_harvest · Apr 26, 2016

John 10:24-30
King James Version(KJV)

24.)Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

25.)Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

26.)But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27.)My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28.)And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29.)My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30.)I and my Father are one.
+++
1st Corinthians 11:3
King James Version(KJV)

3.) But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
+++
2nd Corinthians 5:17-19
King James Version(KJV)

17.)Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

18.)And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19.)To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Depleted · Apr 26, 2016

BenFTW said:

There is a counter argument to that one. The same one you already explained -- Capital G vs. Small g. It's crushed later on in the same chapter. Verse 14. The Word was God. The Word came in the flesh, dwelt among us, glory, etc.

I can't tell you if they have an argument for that one too, but only because I usually get scoff sounds and the person walks away. Seems to me, the higher ups ought to know an argument for that one, or they couldn't get so many to fall for capital G vs. small g. lol

VVhat is the Significance of Jesus' Divinity?

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