GENESIS (A discussion between thepsalmist and oldhermit)

[oldhermit]

THE BOOK OF GENESIS

By oldhermit


Chapter One

I. “In the Beginning, God Created the Heavens and the Earth,” 1:1. The first day.

A. This is a simple blanket statement of fact that immediately establishes God as the causative agent of creation.
B. What immediate things can we generalize from this verse?

1. God reveals something of his own nature.

a. God is represented as a collective – Elohim is a plural noun that presents God to us as unity.
b. God is external to the material dimension. He precedes and stands outside of matter.
c. Divine attributes are evident.

* Intellect – creation begins as an idea in the mind of God.
* Power – to bring matter into existence from nothing.
* Wisdom – to organize matter.

2. We learn something about the nature of creation itself.

a. 'Beginning' is the initiation of the material universe - the heavens and the earth.
b. This represents the inauguration of time. This will be emphasized in at least four ways:

* The beginning of the natural sequence of time - “first day”. There are no preceding time markers represented.
* The later placement of temporal indicators that will serve to measure and regulate time - sun, moon, and stars.
* The creation of things whose existence is measured and limited by time.
* Matter is not eternal. What implications does this have for evolutionary theory that is predicated upon the assumption that matter can never be created nor destroyed?

- What they mean by this is that matter is not observably self-creating. There are no observed instances of spontaneous existence.
- Matter cannot be destroyed, it merely changes form; example: Water can be changed from solid to liquid to gas depending on the conditions of temperature. The scientific community theorizes from this that matter is therefore eternal. What verse one teaches us is that the absence of human observation does not invalidate the creation of matter.

3. The heavens and the earth.

a. Heaven – that which expand beyond the surface of the earth.
b. Earth – the sole occupant of the universe at this point.


II. The Created State of the Earth, 2.

A. Formless, shapeless, waste.
B. Void, empty
C. Dark
D. Aquatic, covered with water.
E. “And the Spirit of God moved over the face of the waters.”
We are not told specifically what the Spirit's involvement is with the earth at this point. We are only told that it is being performed by the Spirit and we can see in the verses that follow what the result of his work was.

1. If we consider the work preformed by the Holy Spirit throughout the rest of scripture perhaps we can understand something of his participation in creation. The Holy Spirit is always seen functioning in three ways.

a. The Holy Spirit functions as the controlling agent.
b. He functions as the conforming agent.
c. He functions as the organizing agent.
Each time we see the Holy Spirit operating in scripture, it is always in one of these three functions.

2. Moving, hovering, brooding – this perhaps represents the molding of the primitive materials of the infant earth. It seems to lend to the idea of preparation. At this point it is dark, empty, shapeless, and covered with water. In this state it is completely non-functional. The result of the Spirit's work is an earth that is given form and distinctiveness. That which was empty will later teem with abundance. What was shrouded in darkness will become light.


III. The Creation of Light, 3-5. “Let there be...”
This is the command pattern for every stage of creation.

A. Natural light is spoken into existence. What kind of light is under consideration? It is not that which represents the glory of God such as we find in the dedication of the Temple. This is light that is comprised of matter and is compatible to the needs of the natural world. It is created light that is not produced by celestial sources. These are not yet created.
B. Light is separated from the darkness. This is an interesting phenomenon. Light and darkness do not naturally separate. It required an act of God to separate the two. I cannot even begin to imagine what that would look like. What does this say about the theory of natural determinacy – the influence of natural law? It tells us that natural laws did not yet exist. Heaven and earth are matter, light is energy. These are the two basic elements of physics. At this point in creation, there are no natural laws in place to influence their behavior. Light is separated from the darkness by an act of God. This will begin the sequence of time. Matter and energy are being organized into a more complex life sustaining system.
C. Light is assigned to function – To measure time, 5. God gives the definition of what constitutes a day.

1. Light = day + morning.
2. Darkness = night + evening.
The combination of these two represent a 24 hour period of time. This same standard of measurement is used in every stage of creation. From the first day before the sun, moon, and stars were created until after these are placed in the heavens as the standard measurement of evening and morning representing one day. This standard of measurement does not change through the chapter.

 

[oldhermit]

Everyone is welcomed to follow the discussion but I will not respond to any argumentation form anyone other than thepsalmist. Please be courteous and do not interrupt the flow of the discussion.

 

[thepsalmist]

Yes, God is the cause of heaven and earth .... and ... their creator and so inherently their owner and the ruler over them.


I am not sure that we can assume that "God is external to the material dimension"-OH, or that "He stands outside of matter"-OH. Maybe He does, but I don't think we can assume He does from reading Gen 1:1. If I say 'I built a barn (for animals) and a pool(for fish)' does that statement remove me from the material dimension? I think it would be wiser to concede that we do not know exactly HOW God built the heavens and the earth ... after all it is possible that there is a material realm beyond and outside of "heaven and earth" ... if I misunderstand your statement please feel free to clarify.


About the instigation of "time" (in the beginning) I would reiterate what I said above. Just because God placed heaven and earth in the context of time ... we cannot assume that it does not or did not exist outside and prior to the creation of heaven and earth. We might advance that eternity has no need for time ... and maybe that's true ... but maybe we assume too much. Why does the Bible say a thousand years is a day to God. Why would it apply time to God at all?


You said "matter is not eternal"? ... could you elaborate please? I would argue that it very well could be. That is why being on the right side of the fence for all eternity is so important. There is torment forever for those who reject Christ. I would offer that for there to be torment, there must be some type of matter to be tormented.


"a. The Holy Spirit functions as the controlling agent.
b. He functions as the conforming agent.
c. He functions as the organizing agent.
Each time we see the Holy Spirit operating in scripture, it is always in one of these three functions." -OH


Very interesting ... I had never thought of His work in such terms ... but it seems to be sound. I have always noticed how He "connects-the-dots" of scripture for me (organizing). He also conforms and controls me with convictions and reminders of scripture.


How do you perceive "controlling" and "conforming" as two seperate entities?



"A. Natural light is spoken into existence. What kind of light is under consideration? It is not that which represents the glory of God such as we find in the dedication of the Temple. This is light that is comprised of matter and is compatible to the needs of the natural world. It is created light that is not produced by celestial sources. These are not yet created." -OH


... I am no scientist but a babe in such things so forgive me ... pure light is a substance that carries all the colors of the rainbow. Each color having it's own frequency. Light= sound= energy= life. I would say this is very much a reflection or an offspring of God Himself. And I think the token of the covenant God made with Noah is not meaningless.


The darkness was already upon the earth ... then God introduced Himself (the light) into the equation ... and YES it is very interesting that they merged .........


Then God separated his "presence" from all darkness that was there already. I think this must be spiritually discerned.


Let's not forget that Jesus (God) said "I am the light of the world"


I think the terms "day and night" are not the literal day and night that occurs when the sun and moon and stars are made on the fourth "day".

 

[oldhermit]

Yes, God is the cause of heaven and earth .... and ... their creator and so inherently their owner and the ruler over them.

I am not sure that we can assume that "God is external to the material dimension"-OH, or that "He stands outside of matter"-OH. Maybe He does, but I don't think we can assume He does from reading Gen 1:1. If I say 'I built a barn (for animals) and a pool(for fish)' does that statement remove me from the material dimension? I think it would be wiser to concede that we do not know exactly HOW God built the heavens and the earth ... after all it is possible that there is a material realm beyond and outside of "heaven and earth" ... if I misunderstand your statement please feel free to clarify.

Perhaps I should have explained the idea of 'outside'. This does not suggest God has no control or power over the world of mater. What I am saying is that God exists whether the material world exists or not. As such, he stands outside, and over that which he has created as the causative agent. Since the world is a created thing, there must be someone who stands outside of it who hold the power of creation. The dimension of mater, as we learn from this text, had a point of origin and we learn from Hebrews 1:9-10, among other places, that it will one day be bought to an end. Reality consists of two dimensions - the eternal and the temporal. One is determinate and the other is subordinate. God resides in the world of the eternal and the unseen which is beyond the ability of the material world to access. Your example of building a barn may serve to illustrate the point I am making. You exist, whether the barn does or not. The barn is merely the work of your hands and could not exist apart from you as its creator. As such, you stand outside whatever you create as the causative agent.

About the instigation of "time" (in the beginning) I would reiterate what I said above. Just because God placed heaven and earth in the context of time ... we cannot assume that it does not or did not exist outside and prior to the creation of heaven and earth. We might advance that eternity has no need for time ... and maybe that's true ... but maybe we assume too much. Why does the Bible say a thousand years is a day to God. Why would it apply time to God at all?

The text tells us the the evening and the morning of creation marked to 'first day.' This by definition represents the first measurement of time which will later be expanded to the "times and the seasons." All of this is confined by the text to "In the beginning." It is something that until this point did not exist. However things may be measured in heaven, we are not told, but the text is not discussing those things.

You said "matter is not eternal"? ... could you elaborate please? I would argue that it very well could be. That is why being on the right side of the fence for all eternity is so important. There is torment forever for those who reject Christ. I would offer that for there to be torment, there must be some type of matter to be tormented.

Perhaps this is a discussion we could have on another thread. This is a whole thread in itself.

"a. The Holy Spirit functions as the controlling agent.
b. He functions as the conforming agent.
c. He functions as the organizing agent.
Each time we see the Holy Spirit operating in scripture, it is always in one of these three functions." -OH

Very interesting ... I had never thought of His work in such terms ... but it seems to be sound. I have always noticed how He "connects-the-dots" of scripture for me (organizing). He also conforms and controls me with convictions and reminders of scripture.

How do you perceive "controlling" and "conforming" as two seperate entities?

I think "controlling" and "conforming" are very similar terms but I do not think they are so similar that he cannot pull them apart to identify different actions. One cannot conform that over which one has no control. I have a great deal to say on this subject but it might be better to save this for later on.

"A. Natural light is spoken into existence. What kind of light is under consideration? It is not that which represents the glory of God such as we find in the dedication of the Temple. This is light that is comprised of matter and is compatible to the needs of the natural world. It is created light that is not produced by celestial sources. These are not yet created." -OH

... I am no scientist but a babe in such things so forgive me ... pure light is a substance that carries all the colors of the rainbow. Each color having it's own frequency. Light= sound= energy= life. I would say this is very much a reflection or an offspring of God Himself. And I think the token of the covenant God made with Noah is not meaningless.

The darkness was already upon the earth ... then God introduced Himself (the light) into the equation ... and YES it is very interesting that they merged .........

Then God separated his "presence" from all darkness that was there already. I think this must be spiritually discerned.

Let's not forget that Jesus (God) said "I am the light of the world"

I know there has been much speculation from other threads as to what this "light" could have been and what it could have represented. Yes, light is very often used in scripture as a metaphor for truth, moral character, or integrity, especially as it relates to God but, light is not always metaphorical and should never be thought of as such unless the text itself demands it. For example, "I am the light of the world." Surely you can understand that Jesus is not claiming to the sun which gives light upon the earth. He is using a metaphor to illustrate truth as opposed to error. He is the truth. He is the light that shines in the darkness of John 1. The incarnation of Jesus revealed a human condition that stressed the absolute need for light (truth).

a. The Human Condition from God’s Perspective – Jesus comes as Light into the darkness. Darkness is used here as a metaphor for defining a human ontology. Darkness represents six human inadequacies.

* Man suffers from spiritual blindness; he is unaware of his condition. Spiritually speaking, he is not able to see things clearly.
* Man suffers fromintellectual blindness to the relationship between the dimensions of the seen and the unseen. There are many things he does not know and cannot know from his observation of the natural world.
* Man suffers fromfalse knowledge; this is knowledge that is defined by human wisdom, Colossians 2:1-4, and 8. His epistemological base is wrong.
* Man suffers fromignorance; his darkness is not perceived, Romans 1:21-22. He is naive, unaware.
* Man suffers fromweakness; human reason is incapable of overpowering the light. Human reason is ineffectual in opposition to revealed knowledge which is Light.
* Man suffers fromdeath and separation; those in the darkness have no relationship to the light. Dependence upon human reason inevitably leads to death. It will be necessary for God to intervene in order to restore the fellowship between himself and man. An intellectual transformation must take place in the mind of man if he is to be “delivered from the domain of darkness and transferred into the kingdom of His dear Son” Colossians 1:13.

b. The incarnation from the human perspective – Light illuminates, exposing what is hidden in the darkness.

* It enlightens, bringing recognition to one’s condition. It brings realization that everything else is a lie.
* It brings life and produces change within the man himself.
* The Light was an unwelcome intrusion. It represented a threat to the human status quo. Light illuminates, exposing what is hidden in the darkness.
* The presence of the Light will most certainly be met with extreme prejudice. They will kill him.

F. “The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.”
κατέλαβεν – apprehend, attain, come upon, comprehend, find, obtain, perceive, overtake.This really stresses the resistance and the conflict that exists between the darkness of man and the light of truth.

1. If we read this from the vantage point of an intellectual struggle between these two ideologies, the darkened mind was simply incapable of understanding the truth that the light represents.
2. If we look at this from the vantage point of a struggle for dominance between two epistemologies, the fact that John says that darkness could not overtake or over power the light shows that there was a failed attempt on the part of man to do so.

This is the difference between the literal use of light in scripture and its metaphorical use. We cannot assume that the light in Gen.1 is metaphoric unless the text itself demands it. Everything he is relating to are things that are connected to the creation and function of the natural universe.

I think the terms "day and night" are not the literal day and night that occurs when the sun and moon and stars are made on the fourth "day".

We will look at this a little later.

I think I shall shorten the amount of text I Post. LOL, I was not expecting so much response from such a brief text.

 

[oldhermit]

IV. The Creation of the Expanse, 6-8; The second day.

A. Separating the waters.

1. Expanse = distance.
2. How much water covered the earth? 5.5 miles minimum.
3. How much water was taken into the troposphere? 4 miles at least.
4. How much water still covered the earth? Approx. 1.5 miles.
B. Considered factors are the amount of water needed to cover Mt. Everest at 29,029 feet + 22 feet to satisfy the draft of the ark = 5.5 miles of standing water. This is not that inconceivable. Mariana's Trench at its deepest known point is 36,200 feet or 6.8 miles. The expanse of verse six is the formation of an atmosphere.

V. Dry Land and Seas Appear, 9-10; The third day.

A. This does not necessitate the separation of the continental plates. Possibly a single land mass.
B. Possibly the formation of massive subterranean aquifers.
C. The formation of the ocean basins which would have resulted from the rising and sinking of land masses.

 

[thepsalmist]

Dear Hermit,

I'm not so sure this way of studying the Bible is for me ... would you be very disappointed if I pulled out from the project?

I do enjoy our exchanges in the many threads.

Psalmist~

 

[oldhermit]

Dear Hermit,

I'm not so sure this way of studying the Bible is for me ... would you be very disappointed if I pulled out from the project?

I do enjoy our exchanges in the many threads.

Psalmist~

If you wish.

 

[oldhermit]

I guess now the thread is open to all for general discussion.

 

[thepsalmist]

I guess now the thread is open to all for general discussion.

Sorry Hermit ...

 

[royalscot]

without, the history to the bible, then you, are looking at human logic. from the prospective of free will, the psalmist, for example wrote from there time on earth, and in there era. how the books came to be joined(became the bible) is why history can be dated . yet prophetically , only the future can see. whitch lead you to biblical prospective.

biblical,prospective
prəˈspɛktɪv/
adjective
[COLOR=#878787 !important]adjective: prospective[/COLOR]

• expected or expecting to be the specified thing in the future.
  [COLOR=#878787 !important]"she showed a prospective buyer around the house"[/COLOR]
  
  
  
  • likely to happen at a future date.
    [COLOR=#878787 !important]"a meeting to discuss prospective changes in government legislation"[/COLOR]
    [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
    [TR]
    [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
    [TD]potential, possible, probable, likely, future, eventual, -to-be, soon-to-be,in the making, destined, intended; More[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]
    
    
    strange you don t comment on, who wrote genesis, giving food for thought, to ask, about,( pen and ink), came at a later date,(stone tablets ie commandments)
    
    prophetic has been show for era to era. till the gap of around 1500 ad, the bible going to print.(that would mean prophetically, without it being read, then there was no voice to tell the story) most of the books in the bible claim there is a god,
    
    
    
    
    
  
  
  

 

[oldhermit]

without, the history to the bible, then you, are looking at human logic. from the prospective of free will, the psalmist, for example wrote from there time on earth, and in there era. how the books came to be joined(became the bible) is why history can be dated . yet prophetically , only the future can see. whitch lead you to biblical prospective.

biblical,prospective
prəˈspɛktɪv/
adjective
[COLOR=#878787 !important]adjective: prospective[/COLOR]

• expected or expecting to be the specified thing in the future.
  [COLOR=#878787 !important]"she showed a prospective buyer around the house"[/COLOR]
  
  • likely to happen at a future date.
    [COLOR=#878787 !important]"a meeting to discuss prospective changes in government legislation"[/COLOR]
    [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
    [TR]
    [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
    [TD]potential, possible, probable, likely, future, eventual, -to-be, soon-to-be,in the making, destined, intended; More[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]
    
    
    strange you don t comment on, who wrote genesis, giving food for thought, to ask, about,( pen and ink), came at a later date,(stone tablets ie commandments)
    
    prophetic has been show for era to era. till the gap of around 1500 ad, the bible going to print.(that would mean prophetically, without it being read, then there was no voice to tell the story) most of the books in the bible claim there is a god.

Do you credit the content of the book of Genesis to the Holy Spirit or to the work of men?

 

[royalscot]

Do you credit the content of the book of Genesis to the Holy Spirit or to the work of men?

who wrote the bible. and who told him or her to write it. ie (the holy spirit was given to men at pentecost. )


do you understand, what i said. without the rest of the other books of the bible, ware did you read about the holy spirit. and given your copy and paste , quote looks as if its out a book. (speculation of course on my part)

Prophecy and Parables
34 All these things Jesus said to the crowds in parables; indeed, he said nothing to them without a parable.35 This was to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet:
"I will open my mouth in parables;
I will utter what has been hidden since the foundation of the world."Matthew 13

if it was known then how could it be hidden. etc.

for example,
[h=2]GENESIS ,16 And God made the two great lights---the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night---and the stars Genesis 1[/h](now commonly, known in 2000 ad as sun and moon. )

but did the writer, know that these two great lights, and the earth, are the reason, you have, time, days , years.etc yet we also see, in revelations by looking to the stars, you would come across other planets, see more that just a one world creation.

so to the believer or unbeliever, the same out come, only through history , age or eras, can a fuller picture be seen. ie the vast size of the universe.


Psalms 78
2 I will open my mouth in a parable; I will utter dark sayings from of old,


the root of genisis , only give small picture, that has been expanded by history. (into what we call the universe.)

The Purpose of the Parables
10 Then the disciples came and said to him, "Why do you speak to them in parables?"11 And he answered them, "To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.12 For to the one who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away.13 This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.14 Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says:
"'You will indeed hear but never understand,
and you will indeed see but never perceive.
15 For this people's heart has grown dull,
and with their ears they can barely hear,
and their eyes they have closed,
lest they should see with their eyes
and hear with their ears
and understand with their heart
and turn, and I would heal them.'
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see, and your ears, for they hear.17 For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.

my point, how much of the universe, was explained in genisis. how much of the universe was explained in revelation.
even the last entered book revelation, is prophetic. never gave a full picture of the universe. so the writer of any book of the bible, wrote what was told or shown to them. and in the mind set, of the history account of what was the common life style of that day or age. etc

Matthew 7
7 "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.


8 For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened. etc

again the 66 books,that was peaced together, to what we call the bible, were not in public show to around (1500 ad) etc


that s the wonder, and wonderful thing, about the bible. it was future that explain the past.

 

[oldhermit]

who wrote the bible. and who told him or her to write it. ie (the holy spirit was given to men at pentecost. )


do you understand, what i said. without the rest of the other books of the bible, ware did you read about the holy spirit. and given your copy and paste , quote looks as if its out a book. (speculation of course on my part)

Prophecy and Parables
34 All these things Jesus said to the crowds in parables; indeed, he said nothing to them without a parable.35 This was to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet:
"I will open my mouth in parables;
I will utter what has been hidden since the foundation of the world."Matthew 13

if it was known then how could it be hidden. etc.

for example,
GENESIS ,16 And God made the two great lights---the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night---and the stars Genesis 1

(now commonly, known in 2000 ad as sun and moon. )

but did the writer, know that these two great lights, and the earth, are the reason, you have, time, days , years.etc yet we also see, in revelations by looking to the stars, you would come across other planets, see more that just a one world creation.

so to the believer or unbeliever, the same out come, only through history , age or eras, can a fuller picture be seen. ie the vast size of the universe.


Psalms 78
2 I will open my mouth in a parable; I will utter dark sayings from of old,


the root of genisis , only give small picture, that has been expanded by history. (into what we call the universe.)

The Purpose of the Parables
10 Then the disciples came and said to him, "Why do you speak to them in parables?"11 And he answered them, "To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.12 For to the one who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away.13 This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.14 Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says:
"'You will indeed hear but never understand,
and you will indeed see but never perceive.
15 For this people's heart has grown dull,
and with their ears they can barely hear,
and their eyes they have closed,
lest they should see with their eyes
and hear with their ears
and understand with their heart
and turn, and I would heal them.'
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see, and your ears, for they hear.17 For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.

my point, how much of the universe, was explained in genisis. how much of the universe was explained in revelation.
even the last entered book revelation, is prophetic. never gave a full picture of the universe. so the writer of any book of the bible, wrote what was told or shown to them. and in the mind set, of the history account of what was the common life style of that day or age. etc

Matthew 7
7 "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.


8 For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened. etc

again the 66 books,that was peaced together, to what we call the bible, were not in public show to around (1500 ad) etc


that s the wonder, and wonderful thing, about the bible. it was future that explain the past.

I assure the material is not cut and paste. The material is mine. What I still wish to know, which you did not answer in all it these many words is, do you credit the content of the book of Genesis to the Holy Spirit or to the work of men?

 

[royalscot]

I assure the material is not cut and paste. The material is mine. What I still wish to know, which you did not answer in all it these many words is, do you credit the content of the book of Genesis to the Holy Spirit or to the work of men?

i did answer, that s, why i asked, if the material is ures, you claim to see the bible , yet, you can t follow, anything that is wrote, in response to this forum.
do you read, Genesis 1: The Creation of the World1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. (so to the believer or unbeliever, the same out come, only through history , age or eras, can a fuller picture be seen. ie the vast size of the universe.)


for example,who taught you to speak, who taught you to write. and at what time in history, did you read the bible.

(also read the bible quote, would already have answered the question, you asked. the first time.)



John 1: The Word Became Flesh
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.2 He was in the beginning with God.3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men.5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.7 He came as a witness, to bear witness about the light, that all might believe through him.8 He was not the light, but came to bear witness about the light.
9 The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world.10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him.11 He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him.12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.15 (John bore witness about him, and cried out, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me ranks before me, because he was before me.'")16 And from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace.17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.18 No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known.John 1


how many examples of the word of god do you need.
compare to words wrote in genisis.

1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

 

[John146]

who wrote the bible. and who told him or her to write it. ie (the holy spirit was given to men at pentecost. )

"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God..."

God is the author of all Scripture including Genesis.

 

[oldhermit]

i did answer, that s, why i asked, if the material is ures, you claim to see the bible , yet, you can t follow, anything that is wrote, in response to this forum.
do you read, Genesis 1: The Creation of the World1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. (so to the believer or unbeliever, the same out come, only through history , age or eras, can a fuller picture be seen. ie the vast size of the universe.)


for example,who taught you to speak, who taught you to write. and at what time in history, did you read the bible.

(also read the bible quote, would already have answered the question, you asked. the first time.)



John 1: The Word Became Flesh
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.2 He was in the beginning with God.3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men.5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.7 He came as a witness, to bear witness about the light, that all might believe through him.8 He was not the light, but came to bear witness about the light.
9 The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world.10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him.11 He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him.12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.15 (John bore witness about him, and cried out, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me ranks before me, because he was before me.'")16 And from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace.17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.18 No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known.John 1


how many examples of the word of god do you need.
compare to words wrote in genisis.

1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

You seem upset an I cannot imagine why. Let me clarify my position and perhaps this will help. The book of Genesis, like every other book of the Bible, is NOT the work of man. Man was merely the instrument through which the Holy Spirit conveyed HIS words to man. The Bible is a representational document that represents the mind of God, not the mind of man. Therefore, it matters not what man or men were enlisted to scribe that which the Holy Spirit gave. ALL the knowledge contained therein is therefor revealed knowledge, not human experiential knowledge. It does not matter then what the scribe understood of his world, the universe, the laws of physics, physiology, thermodynamics, hydrology, or meteorology. The God who created all these things in the one who is the author of the content of ALL scripture.

If scripture is the work of man, then it of no value what-so-ever and therefore matters it matters not at all who the human author or authors were. If it is the sole work of the Holy Spirit, again it matters not at all who the human author or authors were.

 

[abcdef]

Brother oldhermit,

I can't talk now but I'd like to, I'll check back with you,

Catch you Later,

Brother John

 

[royalscot]

You seem upset an I cannot imagine why. Let me clarify my position and perhaps this will help. The book of Genesis, like every other book of the Bible, is NOT the work of man. Man was merely the instrument through which the Holy Spirit conveyed HIS words to man. The Bible is a representational document that represents the mind of God, not the mind of man. Therefore, it matters not what man or men were enlisted to scribe that which the Holy Spirit gave. ALL the knowledge contained therein is therefor revealed knowledge, not human experiential knowledge. It does not matter then what the scribe understood of his world, the universe, the laws of physics, physiology, thermodynamics, hydrology, or meteorology. The God who created all these things in the one who is the author of the content of ALL scripture.


If scripture is the work of man, then it of no value what-so-ever and therefore matters it matters not at all who the human author or authors were. If it is the sole work of the Holy Spirit, again it matters not at all who the human author or authors were.

i can t imagine, if scripture is quoted, that you think i am upset.

what i am saying is, with your opening quote is ,you have over shot the mark, or complicated the matter.

and here is why, i think that.

adam and eve and cain ,etc never needed a voice, they walked and saw god face to face. (could they write, were they told to write an account)

Genesis 3
8 And they heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden.


Genesis 12: The Call of Abram
1 Now the LORD said to Abram, "Go from your country and your kindred and your father's house to the land that I will show you.

Genesis 15: God's Covenant with Abram
1 After these things the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision: "Fear not, Abram, I am your shield; your reward shall be very great.




a voice and a vision (dream like state) and eye witness, are three different things.

Genesis 1: The Creation of the World
1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth

for example
In the beginning=no time or date, but states a meaning, to a start to something.

God=

(In Christianity and other monotheistic religions) the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.Example sentences



2(god)(In certain other religions) a superhuman being or spirit worshipped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity:a moon godthe Hindu god Vishnu




heavens =heaven
ˈhɛv(ə)n/
noun
[COLOR=#878787 !important]plural noun: heavens[/COLOR]

• 1.
  a place regarded in various religions as the abode of God (or the gods) and the angels, and of the good after death, often traditionally depicted as being above the sky.
  [COLOR=#878787 !important]"those who practised good deeds would receive the reward of a place in heaven"[/COLOR]
  
  
  
  the earth =earthəːθ/
  noun
  [COLOR=#878787 !important][/COLOR]
  
  • 1.
    the planet on which we live; the world.
    [COLOR=#878787 !important]"the diversity of life on earth"[/COLOR]
    [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
    [TR]
    [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
    [TD]world, globe, planet, sphere, orb"the moon moves in its orbit around the earth"
    
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]
    
    
    
    
  
  
  [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
  [TR]
  [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"][/TD]
  [TD]
  
  
  
  [/TD]
  [/TR]
  [/TABLE]
  
  
  
  

Genesis 1: The Creation of the World
1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth

a play on words by the translator,of the bible. all a human could see at this time, (at the beginning,) was a sky and land that he stood on.

but who ever was told to write genisis, would be much later, this statement or quote(verse 1)dose not give the meaning to the words spoken, it tells, the reader, god made the land ,that you stand on, the sky that you can see. (history and other books of the bible give identity to the voice. )

it dose, not give human quality to god. although god used a dream like state in the case of abraham to identity himself, to abraham. ( the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision) or spoke with in ear shot of abraham so that abraham could here, what was being said, (his actions, proved he understood, what was said to him)

only in john, we see, the word became flesh, so now the voice has been given a human body, now giving the word of god a body, and human shell. etc

it would be impossible for any human writer, to see fully the simple plan of introduction, or identity, or give full meaning to god, or what he did. only god could use different people of different era or age to continue his plan. etc.

the opening statement or quote said there is a god. (it never said, how do you(humans, contact god, ).

so in this day of 2016, many nations would know there is a god,( yet how did genisis convey , how do humans contact god.) god contacted everyone in genisis.

the question is, who is the true god, of the voice etc. ......................... without the other books of the bible, etc

 

[oldhermit]

i can t imagine, if scripture is quoted, that you think i am upset.

what i am saying is, with your opening quote is ,you have over shot the mark, or complicated the matter.

and here is why, i think that.

adam and eve and cain ,etc never needed a voice, they walked and saw god face to face. (could they write, were they told to write an account)

Genesis 3
8 And they heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden.


Genesis 12: The Call of Abram
1 Now the LORD said to Abram, "Go from your country and your kindred and your father's house to the land that I will show you.

Genesis 15: God's Covenant with Abram
1 After these things the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision: "Fear not, Abram, I am your shield; your reward shall be very great.


a voice and a vision (dream like state) and eye witness, are three different things.

Genesis 1: The Creation of the World
1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth

for example
In the beginning=no time or date, but states a meaning, to a start to something.

God=

(In Christianity and other monotheistic religions) the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.Example sentences



2(god)(In certain other religions) a superhuman being or spirit worshipped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity:a moon godthe Hindu god Vishnu




heavens =heaven
ˈhɛv(ə)n/
noun
[COLOR=#878787 !important]plural noun: heavens[/COLOR]

• 1.
  a place regarded in various religions as the abode of God (or the gods) and the angels, and of the good after death, often traditionally depicted as being above the sky.
  [COLOR=#878787 !important]"those who practised good deeds would receive the reward of a place in heaven"[/COLOR]
  
  
  
  the earth =earthəːθ/
  noun
  [COLOR=#878787 !important][/COLOR]
  
  • 1.
    the planet on which we live; the world.
    [COLOR=#878787 !important]"the diversity of life on earth"[/COLOR]
    [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
    [TR]
    [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
    [TD]world, globe, planet, sphere, orb"the moon moves in its orbit around the earth"[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]
    
    
    
    
  
  
  [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
  [TR]
  [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"][/TD]
  [TD]
  
  
  
  [/TD]
  [/TR]
  [/TABLE]
  
  
  
  

Genesis 1: The Creation of the World
1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth

a play on words by the translator,of the bible. all a human could see at this time, (at the beginning,) was a sky and land that he stood on.

but who ever was told to write genisis, would be much later, this statement or quote(verse 1)dose not give the meaning to the words spoken, it tells, the reader, god made the land ,that you stand on, the sky that you can see. (history and other books of the bible give identity to the voice. )

it dose, not give human quality to god. although god used a dream like state in the case of abraham to identity himself, to abraham. ( the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision) or spoke with in ear shot of abraham so that abraham could here, what was being said, (his actions, proved he understood, what was said to him)

only in john, we see, the word became flesh, so now the voice has been given a human body, now giving the word of god a body, and human shell. etc

it would be impossible for any human writer, to see fully the simple plan of introduction, or identity, or give full meaning to god, or what he did. only god could use different people of different era or age to continue his plan. etc.

the opening statement or quote said there is a god. (it never said, how do you(humans, contact god, ).

so in this day of 2016, many nations would know there is a god,( yet how did genisis convey , how do humans contact god.) god contacted everyone in genisis.

the question is, who is the true god, of the voice etc. ......................... without the other books of the bible, etc

Please forgive me, but I cannot see what any of this has to do with anything I said in my outline.

 

[royalscot]

1. God reveals something of his own nature.
a. God is represented as a collective – Elohim is a plural noun that presents God to us as unity.
b. God is external to the material dimension. He precedes and stands outside of matter.
c. Divine attributes are evident.

* Intellect – creation begins as an idea in the mind of God.
* Power – to bring matter into existence from nothing.
* Wisdom – to organize matter.

when did god, revel to the writer of genesis ,anything about himself.

and told, the human to go to the land that i show you. and the knock on affect of history started etc .