Put the church on a milk carton!

sparkman · May 2, 2016

That's hilarious. I can be a rascal too on occasion. I guess folks here didn't appreciate my nut remark and squirrel preacher pic but it was more of a reflection of a bit of orneriness, although I was pointing out a serious issue regarding considering the words of those who are claiming to teach here. Their competency AND lifestyle needs to be considered, and on an internet forum it is impossible to gauge this. Like I've said, some hold bad doctrines or lifestyle issues that may remain hidden from view for a while.

Brainfreeze · May 2, 2016

sparkman said:

Looks itself can be deceiving, we don't know their lives or how deep down the river they been. We don't know what the devil has stole from them, we should leave it to God to judge. Doesn't God let the wicked have rain amongst the good? We should still care even if they are tares. We are called to love, and with love comes concern and care. I'm pretty aware of the The Holy Spirit and it's fruits, and I have a son and good woman and family that do bring me smiles but I live in the house of sorrows brother. I live to care, to want to fix, to make right what God puts on my heart to do so.

We should seek to understand why some are troubled, I am here to stand by them as a brother just did for me and Yet. This is the calling, we are servants, we help, lift up, encourage. We love, and who so can teach and do so well, should. I don't know if mitspa ever graduated a seminary school or how he got what he knows, but somethings only the Spirit can show, and only when God wants to show it. Some are chosen to do as they do, and we should respect and listen for they are sent by God. We will know it when we hear it, it will agree with scripture and speak to our hearts, some times sending chills down our spine.. But I do understand you, and I agree, don't give up looking and seeking fellowship, not only those in a church setting but any and everywhere, rather at work or cleaning out your car. If we can plant a seed somewhere or help someone we should do so with whole heart care, the kind of care that brother Josh gives you.

sparkman · May 3, 2016

Brainfreeze said:

OK, well at the same time there are tares Satan is using to misdirect into unproductivity, or drag others to eternal punishment with them, and to mislead the naïve. I am not oblivious to this reality. Whether someone is a disillusioned believer or a tare isn't mine to judge, but I know this is a real factor, and I am totally against that.

Every person that Satan can drag into unproductivity with negativity is to his gain. At the best, he has neutralized a soldier who can be used for the gospel, and at worst he has caused someone to go to eternal punishment.

Spouting negativity toward submitting to local church fellowships, and tearing down trust in the leadership, is one of those things that he uses. Like I said, the essence of Satan's character is rebellion against authority and a spirit of self-sufficiency which will not submit to proper God ordained leadership, instead claiming to know better. One should never underestimate how Satan's spirit of rebellion against authority has infiltrated the thinking of unbelievers AND some believers.

Read Jude..he speaks of these sorts of people within the visible church.

And...obviously I am not speaking of submitting to false teachers who don't even belong in the church. One must exercise discernment in selecting a local church fellowship, and discern whether the character and doctrine of the pastor and eldership is in line with the teachings of Scripture.

Anyways..my views on this topic are plain

bikerchaz · May 3, 2016

I would like to point out I do not see any

here, and I, in all honesty do not see where this comes from.

Neither myself or any one on CC that I have read has advocated leaving any kind of fellowship, even the Roman Catholic church, or the high Anglican church, with all their incense and pomp.

I have tried to conform to the spirits leading within me, I know I fail sometimes and can possibly take things a bit to far, and if this has happened I apologise. But I will not apologise for Loving Jesus Christ and I will not apologise for loving His Church or those He has called. I also do not apologise for wanting to see all those called "chosen".

God knew what he was doing when He put His Spirit in me, and if it comes down to how we feel as in "there is a way that feels right to man, but the way thereof is death" then I can tell you the way God is opening up for me feels like a death sentence and does not feel right at all, but Praise Him His Holy Spirit confirms within me as I step out I have to move forward.

I know in my heart God has a plan for everyone, and He wants us in families, even in extended families of 30 or more. Yes I do have a problem when the family unit is more than 50, because then people can hide and loose themselves, or even get lost and 'fall through the cracks' to coin a phrase.

But when everyone pulls together with only Jesus at the helm, and His Spirit leading the assembly those who would want to hide can not and any issues that might cause this behaviour get sorted out. Those who might get forgotten and overlooked will not be, God looses sight of no one and His Spirit moves forward to Shepard His sheep

Those with wealth and substance are able to use it to the well being of the whole body. Yes business is business and it has to make a profit to survive, but not at the expense of exploiting its workforce. Any director knows that they have to put in long hours and effort to have a comfortable life as far as this world looks at comfort, then they should look within their lives and make sure that their families are not being neglected, wives, husbands, children, all can end up being put aside to make the business grow and become profitable "because everything I do is for them". Also the workforce, if they are treated right and given wages enough to enable them not to struggle, will bless the business when everything is done with Jesus at the forefront of everything we do.

Am I not a man? if you cut me will I not bleed? if you hit me with words and innuendo will not my spirit be wounded? and if my spirit, will not the Spirit of Him who died for me feel it also. I will be plane If my words have troubled the "sacred cow" I do not repent. Why are you worshipping the sacred cow? If these words are not welcome here then be plane and say "GO"

If this is what you want I will go but be plane so I know what you want. If it is to be "each to their own" then so be it, I will have Christ and Him crucified.

I understand that Jesus will not push Himself above what we want and He lets the smouldering flax smoulder, Jesus lets the broken reed stay broken. The analogy of these two things are quite stark, a candle of bees wax smouldering will stink the house out and make your eyes water and it is hard to breath, it is even worse with tallow (animal fat), and a bruised reed does not do its discomforts any decent description. Sennacherib put it best when coming against Jerusalem, he called Pharaoh 'a splintered reed that pierces the hand that leans upon it', I feel a lot has got lost in translation. But a smouldering flax holds all that is needed to burst into flame when it is lit by the fire of the Holy Spirit, and the healing Jesus brings because we are healed by His stripes can mend the broken, bruised and splintered reed and make it a useful tool again to take the weight of one who leans upon it.

So everything said I will not say any more if you want me gone I will be gone. Sparkman? prodigal?

sparkman · May 3, 2016

bikerchaz said:

I'm not even sure what you're saying, nor did I take note of your original posts. I don't know if there is something I missed or what.

Regarding the strong anti-local fellowship sentiments some express here, they are pretty obvious, and very common for internet fellowships. Such internet forums attract some people who are not anchored in a local fellowship, who consider this to be an alternative to a face-to-face fellowship. My contention is that it does not, and cannot serve this purpose, but is a great place for supplemental fellowship.

The incidences of baptism, communion, and church discipline exercised in the apostolic church prove that internet fellowship is not a viable option to local, face-to-face fellowship. New Testament Christianity clearly portrays a community engaged in face-to-face fellowship where the gifts of the Spirit are engaged, including the gift of teaching, and where accountability to authority is part of the Christian obligation.

And..these local fellowships exist NOW! They aren't missing. I am attending one of them. To claim they are missing is much like Elijah claiming he was the only true follower of God. God informed him that he was not; that he had 7000 other followers in Israel who had not bowed the knee to Baal. Read I Kings 19.

And, as I said, I'm not acting as a moderator in expressing my convictions on this thread. The only comment I made in regards to this is that no one is a teacher here on the forum. The thread creator claimed that he teaches here...he may fancy himself to be so, like many others, but this site recognizes no teachers.

Yet · May 3, 2016

And the Lord said unto Samuel, hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto you, for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected Me. That I should not reign over them. 1Sam. 8:7

The people wanted an idol, something they could see, a man, a king, as the world has its authority figures, Matt.20.

God wanted to be the only one in complete authority. Today, Christ is replaced by the pre-eminent pastor Diotrephes authority in total defiance of Matt.20:25-26
I humbly beseech you to examine His word here.

melita916 · May 3, 2016

i like my pastor

sparkman · May 3, 2016

Hebrews 13: 17 Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.

Ephesians 4:12-16 So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, [SUP]12 [/SUP]to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up [SUP]13 [/SUP]until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.[SUP]14 [/SUP]Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ. [SUP]16 [/SUP]From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.

Christianity knows nothing of the type of detached faith that is promoted by some on this thread. It is a community of believers that observe communion and baptism, where believers are taught and actively lead by pastors and teachers, and where church discipline is reluctantly used to bring errant believers back in the fold. And, it is a face-to-face community where this type of accountability can be maintained.

And, those who are not tethered or anchored to the church, as the above verses state, are tossed to and fro by bad doctrine, and are immature, like it or not. Reading weird stuff on the forums is ample evidence of that. Denial of the essential core doctrines of the faith abound, as well as whacky conspiracy theories and assertions based on Scriptures taken out of context.

Christ is the head pastor of his church, but he doesn't lead through self-professed chatroom teachers. He leads through face to face relationships with real people.

Yet · May 3, 2016

And you have this day rejected your God, who Himself SAVED YOU out of all your adversities and your tribulations, and you said unto Him, No! But set a king ( self exalting pastor) over us.....1Sam.10:19

Ill let the 'word' speak.

coby2 · May 3, 2016

I once took 2 guys who were on drugs and not christian to a meeting of John Arnott who came to Holland and when we drove there he also drove there with his car and I saw him and yelled: look! look! There he is!!!
They: huh who?
John Arnott!!
My, they said, is he a celebrity or something? It's insane the way you act.
I thought: yeah you're right.

sparkman · May 3, 2016

Yet said:

You really pull things out of context.

For one thing, Christians know that Jesus is the head of the church, and that he appoints men to lead them. Ephesians 4 is PLAIN on this. Hebrews 13 is also PLAIN on this, as well as the NT scriptures after the founding of the church on Pentecost.

Scripture can be pulled out of context to "prove" anything you want. Notice how Satan used Scripture in Matthew 4.

bikerchaz · May 3, 2016

sparkman said:

Thank you, if my comment offended I apologise, do you realise I haven't picked up on this no fellowship thing, the whole time I have been on here. I have read posts that have mentioned seclusion but I had not realised it was a sought after situation. It is extremely important to fellowship with someone and to break bread as often as you can, to get the word and sound face to face discussion with those we love in the lord.

There are times we are on our own and face discord, hardship and persecution, and for those times we are provided what we need, for a time, as was Joseph when in prison and in service away from his family, but that was not to be his lot, He spent 18 years with his father and family after they were reunited.

I do not want anyone to be without fellowship, I see a great deal of wasted resources within the church as we have it in the UK. Did you realise although the Queen in head of the C of E (church of England) it is only puppet roll and even the bishops who rule within the synod are under the authority of both the house of commons and the house of lords. Jesus is head of the Church no matter where it is, what country or continent. The reason we have Gay priests and other contentious things within the church in the UK is because of the government forcing it's will into the church. There are county councils that do not allow assemblies in schools unless they are secular. No prayers are allowed, no worship of any kind. The Christmas pageants, the stables and mangers with all the other Christmas trimmings are not allowed in up to 50% of towns throughout England because they may offend.

This is partly what drives me to stand against the state control church, but when the spirit touches people they fall in line with what is going on by the way the church they set up is run.

The Quakes were totally Spirit led that is why they were called Quakers, not now, I spoke to one who told me that the major religion within the Quaker movement in the UK was Buddhism, and when I mentioned Jesus she looked at me like I had two heads and told me that Christianity never had anything to do with the Quakers.

This is why once a month I will put in a prayer request for 300,000,000. I only have one blog on here and that sort of explains why. Jesus is ripping my heart out, some times I can't take the pain, but I can't stop. All I want to do is be with Him, but I have a family and other responsibilities that get in the way, that is how it feels. I do not want to be here, at all. I really do not care for my life, and as long as I am made to stay in this body I will do all I can to disrupt what satan is doing.

When I was looking for a Christian site on line, it was to get some meaty bible study, I could not find one. Even here on CC the study is not what I originally looked for, but I have found much more than study here, there is a fellowship on here that touches the Spirit, and weather or not it is because of the anonymity on here the discernment of the Spirit for those being discipled is strongly evident.

I have said this before but I will say it again, we will all have to stand before God and Jesus and give account of what we have done in our lives, whether it is for everything we have done throughout our lives or whether it is for what we have done in His name, we will all be there. But having anyone looking at me and pointing a finger and saying; "Its not my fault, he didn't tell me or show me or explain to me so how was I supposed to know", is not what I want.

If the op of a thread is taking on the roll of teacher then that responsibility is truly great, but to be anointed to teach or lead by example and not doing so is something I do not want to contemplate. Praise be to God who gave us His son to die for us and suffer for us so we do not have to die or suffer. Thank you Jesus Christ son of God, who was truly man now exalted to sit at Gods right hand, my God and my saviour.

hornetguy · May 3, 2016

My brother and his wife attend an Anglican church in Cambridge, and they seem to be fairly happy there. This surprises me no small amount as they were both raised in very non-structured church types..

Yet · May 4, 2016

And they rejected His statutes, and His covenant that He made with their fathers, and His testimonies which He testified against them, and they followed vanity and became vain, and went after the heathen that were round about them, concerning whom the Lord had charged them, that THEY SHOULD NOT DO LIKE THEM. 2Kings 17:15

Jesus said in Matt.20 that WE SHOULD NOT DO AS THE HEATHEN.

Read it and weap.....I pray and hope:

vs.25. You know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. BUT IT SHALL NOT BE SO AMONG YOU. But whoever shall be great among you (not above you) let him be your (humble servant) minister. Get rid of the fancy suit and tie, put on a servants apron and start washing feet. And DONT CHARGE so much per foot..John 13. Stop with the money mad stuff.
And whoever will be chief among (again, not above) you, let him be your servant.

Even as the Son of man came NOT to be ministered to, but to minister to others. Vs. 26-28

The 'church' is run by heathens. Needs to stop.

A comatose congregation is the reason. Wake up for God's sake! And for the 'body's' sake!

fredoheaven · May 4, 2016

Yet said:

Oops! that's not what Christ says of his church...it needs to run! Heathen church is not Christ church but His church will prevail no matter what...need not stop, it must walk, run or if possible needs to fly!

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Yet · May 4, 2016

Oh Lord, are not Your eyes upon the truth? You have stricken them (cancer, diabetes, stroke, kidney failure, heart disease, etc..), but they have not sorrowed (unto repentance). You have consumed them but they refuse correction. They have made their faces harder than a stone and have refused to return.

Therefore I said, ' surely they are poor and foolish, for they KNOW NOT THE WAY OF THE LORD, nor the judgment of their God.

I will go unto the great men (the leaders, pastors) and will speak unto them, for they know the way of the Lord, and the judgment of their God. But these have altogether broken the yoke ( turned from God's word) and burst the bonds ( jettisoned His commands).

Wherefore a lion shall slay them, a wolf shall destroy them, a leopard shall shall watch over them, everyone that goes out shall be ripped to pieces. Because their sins are many, and their rebellions are increased. Jeremiah 5:3-6

fredoheaven · May 4, 2016

Yet said:

Hi sir Yet,

My eyes are ever with the Lord in seeing the truth. My God says He will give pastors according to His heart and surely God can! and I am trusting in my God. God bless you sir!

Jeremiah 3:15 And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.

fredoheaven · May 4, 2016

Well, the servant of God slew the lion and the bear and anyone who defied the armies of the living God. David as pastor did it! It was nice that Saul said unto David, Go, and the Lord be with thee. The real pastor of today carry the same mandate and the Lord is surely with them!

1 Sam 17:36 Thy servant slew both the lion and the bear: and this uncircumcised Philistine shall be as one of them, seeing he hath defied the armies of the living God.

1 Sam 17:37 David said moreover, The LORD that delivered me out of the paw of the lion, and out of the paw of the bear, he will deliver me out of the hand of this Philistine. And Saul said unto David, Go, and the LORD be with thee.

Eternallife · May 4, 2016

Yet said:

....for it is MISSING!
There is a two word verse that reads 'Jesus wept'. John 11:35. Does anyone doubt that this verse is true? Do you believe that Jesus wept at this point? Maybe it's a lie?? GASP!! 'Yet...now we all know for sure you are batty, crazy, out of your head. Yep! We knew it all along. Now we have the proof along with the pudding! You are a fraud. A lunatic. A deceiver. A false prophet, teacher, and cultist!! We gotcha now! Telling us that a verse in the bible might be false, a mis-print. How dare you Yet?' I totally disagree with you. The Church isn't a building of this creation. We were all warned by Paul than many false prophets would arise. And finally about the milk carton for missing I have to say that manymnot you perhaps but I'm using this thread to inform people that may need the Church as weak because we are told to turn the other cheek Imwant people to understand ate also instructed to render to Babyalon double. I

Ok. Moving on now. You think you're mad at me now, just wait.

There are about 50 verses in 1Cor.12, Ephesians 4, and Romans 12 that I continuously teach on to the dismay of most.

These scriptures are soundly rejected by organized religion, the 'church', falsely called.

Do you suspect an inconsistency here? I'm just a simple man with a simple mind.

Most everything the ecclesia is suppose to be, isn't. And what it isn't suppose to be, is.

The true biblical dynamic of the scriptural body of Christ is MISSING, and has been for nearly 1800 years.

My question is should we put the 'church' on a milk carton and hope someone can spot it somewhere?

I disagree totally. We are in the world amongst the tares and the Church isn't a building of this creation.

Yet · May 4, 2016

Let the word of God speak and be true and 'every man a liar'. Romans 3:4

Christian-speak has been around for hundreds of years. But it doesn't make it 'truth'. I bring up verse after verse that is in stark contrast to churchianity and its doctrines and methods and the folks race upon me grinding their teeth, hands on their ears, looking for stones to throw. Acts 7:54-60

The prophets prophesy lies (pastors teach twisted doctrine for fun and financial profit) and the priests rule by their (hierarchal, clerical) means and MY PEOPLE LOVE IT THAT WAY, ..and what will you do in the end thereof ( nothing you can say will change their obstinate minds) Jeremiah 5:31

Hear oh earth (church), Listen I will bring evil upon this people, even the fruit of their thoughts, because they have not listened to my words, nor to My law, but have REJECTED IT! Jeremiah 6:19

Now listen. God loves His people. I know you heard that He loves His own so much that He won't leave them in the shape their in.
His chastizements are blessings IF they awaken a sleepy deceived congregation.

Blind guides are leading the blind and both are living in a ditch. Matt. 15:14
The ditch is God's blessing ....IF it awakens the folks therein.

Stay mad at me as long as you keep reading what I write. The moment you quit.....well.....nuff said.

Put the church on a milk carton!

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