Put the church on a milk carton!

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49

Guest
#61
#61
Are all churches organized?
 
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49

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#62
#62
Yet, would you be against a church with a pastor that collects no salary, or are all churches (in your opinion) disconnected from the vine? Just trying to understand you.
 
Yet

Yet

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#63
Jan 4, 2014
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49 said:
Yet, would you be against a church with a pastor that collects no salary, or are all churches (in your opinion) disconnected from the vine? Just trying to understand you.
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No one man is to be exalted above the others. Matt. 23 Jesus condemned the use of religious titles. Then he said why.....arrogance.

If you look at 1Peter 5 and Acts 20, you'll discover that in any local fellowship, there are a multiplicity of shepherds, all shoulder level, no big I's and little you's.

Acts 20, all pastors/elders were to work secular jobs, not sponge off of grandma and the folks.

And its its not just my opinion. A lot of folks on this site toss their opinions around as scriptural facts. But they never ever back them up with scripture.

I always use scripture.

Please check out the thread I just pointed to in previous post. I walk through the verses of those chapters proving that the way 'church' is done today is foreign to the NT.
Im called a lot of names for simply pointing to God's word in clarity. But I expect that. For that same word declares that anybody who dares stand on the word will be persecuted for that word. Smile.
 
Yet

Yet

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#64
Jan 4, 2014
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#64
49 said:
Are all churches organized?
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When I say Organized Church, I mean they are an entity started by man and his ideas and traditions that are contrary to the original divine intention. Run like a worldly business with a board of members and CEO at the top.

Very little of its MO can be validated by the picture of the body of Christ given to us in the word. See the thread I submitted. 1Cor. 12, Romans 12, and Ephesians 4.
 
melita916

melita916

Senior Member
#65
Aug 12, 2011
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#65
Yet, i admit i have not read all your threads, so you might have answered this question. As people always say, "be part of the solution." Im just curious what you do locally to be the Church.
 
Yet

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#66
Jan 4, 2014
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sparkman said:
Yeah..I find it interesting, too, that wolves spend a lot of time calling other wolves...and that their doctrine and life is far below question themselves. I found that out with my cult leader...besides living in opulence (claiming God is a God of quality and that His apostle should live accordingly), he likely was involved in an incestuous relationship with his daughter..and the claim that the redeemed would be fully God like God the Father and Jesus Christ was clearly blasphemous.

Yet he was labeling the rest of Christianity "so-called Christians" following a "false gospel" and a "counterfeit Christianity" who were the "synagogue of Satan".

Yes, there are false teachers that are under the banner of evangelical Christianity but those casting stones at evangelical Christians are much more likely to be wolves.

I'd also ask whether the individual doing the rock-throwing has the credentials to be a fruit inspector. It's easy to sit behind a computer screen and criticize without exposing one's life to scrutiny.

Again, I'd suggest any younger Christians not get caught up in the attitudes of some on this forum..find a good, evangelical, local fellowship. There's some info on finding a good one in my profile. Online fellowships like this tend to attract rebels who are in clear denial of Ephesians 4 and the NT instructions concerning the church. This place is great for supplemental fellowship, and there are some sound believers here (I'm hoping the majority are), but it's also a haven for "lone ranger Christians" who can't handle church authority and are not accountable to anyone. They want the illusion of church membership without cramping their style and having their envelopes pressed....too bad sanctification necessarily involves cramping our style and pressing our envelope. Don't let the paranoid, cynical, self-righteous, prideful attitudes of some here contaminate your pure faith. The people that I fellowship in real life are great, and the doctrine is sound.

I think it's a shame that the attitude of extreme cynicism regarding local fellowships exists here. Some here seem to think they are Elijah, that they are the beacons of truth, and that few other followers exist. They should take note of what God said to him...He had 7000 other believers who had not bowed the knee to Baal (I Kings 19:18).
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See the thread '1Cor 12, Romans 12, and Ephesians 4.' Then come back and we'll talk about wolves. Smile.
 
Yet

Yet

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#67
Jan 4, 2014
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#67
A simple way to put this. The word of God says that we all have been given spiritual gifts and functions to be used in the open meeting assembly. If that is so, which it is, why is it that only one man, as the general rule, gets to use his ministry while everyone else doesn't? That's a perversion indeed.
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#68
Sep 4, 2013
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#68
Yet said:
A simple way to put this. The word of God says that we all have been given spiritual gifts and functions to be used in the open meeting assembly. If that is so, which it is, why is it that only one man, as the general rule, gets to use his ministry while everyone else doesn't? That's a perversion indeed.
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That's just more of your personal bias against Pastors............sorry.........all who have been given a Spiritual Gift are able to use that gift as God wills. GOD is in charge of His Church.......and HE said: I will never leave you or forsake you.....

So, if you wanna put something on a milk carton, put your personal bias.......and then DON'T seek it again.
 
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psychomom

Guest
#69
#69
Yet said:
Dont just say 'that's in the bible'. Show us where in the NT is the exalted, single, salaried one man show pastor.

Seen this movie before. 'Its in the bible. It's in the bible'. But no one ever gives a single verse to support a position. I grow weary.
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well, i never said "exalted, single, salaried one man show pastor." :rolleyes:

but as to the word, it's right there in Eph 4:11!

And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers

HELPS word studies:

poimḗn – properly, a shepherd ("pastor" in Latin); (figuratively) someone who the Lord raises up to care for the total well-being of His flock (the people of the Lord).




 
Yet

Yet

Banned
#70
Jan 4, 2014
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psychomom said:
well, i never said "exalted, single, salaried one man show pastor." :rolleyes:

but as to the word, it's right there in Eph 4:11!

And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers

HELPS word studies:

poimḗn – properly, a shepherd ("pastor" in Latin); (figuratively) someone who the Lord raises up to care for the total well-being of His flock (the people of the Lord).
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See: 1Peter 5 and Acts 20. A multiplicity of pastors. Are you saying that you don't have the one single pastor who is called pastor' that draws a salary? If you are, then great. And every member uses their spiritual function in the open meeting, ministering one unto another? Then great again. Where are you located? I'd like to come visit and see this phenomenon myself.
 
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#71
Jan 4, 2014
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p_rehbein said:
That's just more of your personal bias against Pastors............sorry.........all who have been given a Spiritual Gift are able to use that gift as God wills. GOD is in charge of His Church.......and HE said: I will never leave you or forsake you.....

So, if you wanna put something on a milk carton, put your personal bias.......and then DON'T seek it again.
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So you don't agree with the word of God concerning a plethora of shepherds. Why don't you agree with His word is the question here. Would like to hear your answer.

yea, I'm biased against falsehood. Aren't you?
 
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coby2

Guest
#72
#72
Yet said:
A simple way to put this. The word of God says that we all have been given spiritual gifts and functions to be used in the open meeting assembly. If that is so, which it is, why is it that only one man, as the general rule, gets to use his ministry while everyone else doesn't? That's a perversion indeed.
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That's just old style doing church with a holy man and the lay people. They've been preaching against this stuff since the ninetees. A pastor equips a small group and then they disciple others and everyone becomes fruitful. Today I heard: If I go away do you still let Him lead you? Don't be dependant of a man. Just serve God yourself. Yes we have one who preaches now, because the church is tiny and it has to start somewhere.
 
Yet

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#73
Jan 4, 2014
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You falsely accuse me. Im 100 percent FOR PASTORS, according to the word of God, Acts 20 and 1Peter 5....
Why are you against 'pastors' according to His word? Do you have a bias against His word?
 
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coby2

Guest
#74
#74
Yet said:
You falsely accuse me. Im 100 percent FOR PASTORS, according to the word of God, Acts 20 and 1Peter 5....
Why are you against 'pastors' according to His word? Do you have a bias against His word?
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Oh that's great to hear, but you spoke a few times against all pastors.
 
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psychomom

Guest
#75
#75
Yet said:
See: 1Peter 5 and Acts 20. A multiplicity of pastors. Are you saying that you don't have the one single pastor who is called pastor' that draws a salary? If you are, then great. And every member uses their spiritual function in the open meeting, ministering one unto another? Then great again. Where are you located? I'd like to come visit and see this phenomenon myself.
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lol.... here's the church. we offer the pastors money because 'the laborer deserves his wages'.
it's not demanded, it's offered.

goodwillchurch.org
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#76
#76
melita916 said:
Yet, i admit i have not read all your threads, so you might have answered this question. As people always say, "be part of the solution." Im just curious what you do locally to be the Church.
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Link on some of his work....
 
Yet

Yet

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#77
Jan 4, 2014
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#77
melita916 said:
Yet, i admit i have not read all your threads, so you might have answered this question. As people always say, "be part of the solution." Im just curious what you do locally to be the Church.
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High Melita. I do my best to hear His 'still small voice'. 1Kings 19:12

I teach His word on this site and to whoever will listen.
 
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sparkman

Guest
#78
#78
Yet said:
High Melita. I do my best to hear His 'still small voice'. 1Kings 19:12

I teach His word on this site and to whoever will listen.
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You might try going out to your front yard and preaching to the squirrels..they like nuts. :)

Seriously, this is a bible discussion forum and isn't a venue for teaching. I wouldn't consider anyone here to be a teacher. We don't know what they are like in real life. Even if their doctrine sounds reasonable (which in many case it does not), their character is still unknown. Anyone can hide behind a computer screen and claim to be something they are not.

Again, I suggest younger believers find CREDIBLE sources of information, and a good solid local evangelical church. The nuts on here abound.
 

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Budman

Budman

Senior Member
#79
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
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#79
Yet said:
I teach His word on this site and to whoever will listen.
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And you exalt yourself. The very thing you accuse Pastors of doing. You make yourself out to be so much better than them. You are a hypocrite, Yet.
 
Yet

Yet

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#80
Jan 4, 2014
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#80
psychomom said:
lol.... here's the church. we offer the pastors money because 'the laborer deserves his wages'.
it's not demanded, it's offered.

goodwillchurch.org
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I take it you didn't check out Acts 20 where the pastors are commanded to work secular jobs?

'The laborer deserves his wages's is in 1Timothy 5. It is speaking about the elders that direct and guide well as in teaching the word. They deserve double honor. The Greek for honor is timees which means respect. The word for wages in the Greek is opsonion which means compensation or wages. Opsonion is not used here. Timees is:respect or honor.

If it meant money or salary, how could a fellowship that ran 40 people afford to pay salaries to 20 good teachers in the bunch?

Again, the elders/pastors are to work for a living and also to have the wherewithal to help the poor.

Those preachers that could legally accept donations are the traveling preachers like Paul.
 
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