John baptizes Jesus

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Devonmcknight68

Devonmcknight68

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Jan 9, 2016
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Mathew 3 13-17 "13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him. 14 And John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I need to be baptized by You, and are You coming to me?”15 But Jesus answered and said to him, “Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he allowed Him.
16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He[c] saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. 17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”



what was the significance of Jesus' baptism, why didn't the spirit descend to him prior to this, was it really necessary for him to be baptized? I ask this because people have told me that being baptized isn't really a salvation issue its just a public display that you do to say that you follow Christ. (Or somewhere on those lines) so was this just a public display that God wanted the people or at least John to see? And to hear? Or was the spirit of God not with him until this point?
 
W

wwjd_kilden

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#2
#2
Well. Those who teach that baptism is essential seem to think it cleanses us form sin ... but most Christians seem to agree that Jesus didn't take our sin upon him until he was on the cross ... so that doesn't make sense to me.

Also, Jesus being God, it would be strange if he'd need to be baptized to obtain the spirit.

... so, maybe it was mainly a sign to the crowd?
 
Magenta

Magenta

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Jesus said He was to be baptized to fulfill all righteousness.
Praise God He has fulfilled all righteousness for us!
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

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Devonmcknight68 said:
Mathew 3 13-17 "13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him. 14 And John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I need to be baptized by You, and are You coming to me?”15 But Jesus answered and said to him, “Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he allowed Him.
16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He[c] saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. 17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”



what was the significance of Jesus' baptism, why didn't the spirit descend to him prior to this, was it really necessary for him to be baptized? I ask this because people have told me that being baptized isn't really a salvation issue its just a public display that you do to say that you follow Christ. (Or somewhere on those lines) so was this just a public display that God wanted the people or at least John to see? And to hear? Or was the spirit of God not with him until this point?
Click to expand...
By oldhermit

VI. John's Testimony Concerning Jesus, 29-34

The baptism of Jesus has already occurred. John relates to event after the fact.

A. The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! This is He on behalf of whom I said, after me comes a Man who has a higher in rank than I, for He existed before me.”
This is not rank of office, this is rank of being. Jesus is the Creator, John is the creature.
B. “I did not recognize Him.” In other words Jesus had not yet been revealed to him or to anyone else as the Lamb of God. From the vantage point of human experience, there was nothing in the physics or the physiology of Jesus by which John could have recognized him as the Lamb of God. This had to be revealed by the testimony of heaven itself.
C. “But so that He might be manifested to Israel, I came baptizing in water.” This establishes the context for the purpose of the baptism of Jesus. John's baptism was for repentance unto the remission of sin. Since Jesus has no sin and nothing of which to repent, why did he submit to John's baptism? The reason is two-fold.

1. As an act of obedience – “To fulfill all righteousness.” Notice in Matthew 3:15, Jesus did not say it behooves ME to fulfill all righteousness but, “It behooves US to fulfill all righteousness.” The 'us' is all men. Baptism as an act of obedience to the will of God then is an act of righteousness. Jesus did it because God had sent John to teach and baptize the people of Israel. Jesus is a son of Israel and is thus bound to the divine precepts imposed upon the people. He is fulfilling the Law of God.
2. “That He might be manifested to Israel.” This was done in the three-fold theophonic manifestation.

D. “John testified saying, 'I have seen the Spirit descending as a dove out of heaven, and He remained upon Him. I did not recognize Him, but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the One who baptizes in the Holy Spirit. I myself have seen, and have testified that this is the Son of God.'”
The divine triad is represented by Jesus who came down from heaven now standing in the flesh as part of the material world. We see the Holy Spirit himself coming down out of heaven assuming a bodily for like that of a dove thus linking the two worlds (This is the only time the Holy Spirit has ever been described as assuming any type of physical form); And the voice of the Father from heaven declaring Jesus as the Son of God. This is indeed a unique event that has no parallel. In this event we find the ONLY time all three members of the triadic unity are present in a single manifestation. It never seems to have occurred before and has not occurred since.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
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Nov 23, 2013
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Devonmcknight68 said:
Mathew 3 13-17 "13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him. 14 And John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I need to be baptized by You, and are You coming to me?”15 But Jesus answered and said to him, “Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he allowed Him.
16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He[c] saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. 17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”



what was the significance of Jesus' baptism, why didn't the spirit descend to him prior to this, was it really necessary for him to be baptized? I ask this because people have told me that being baptized isn't really a salvation issue its just a public display that you do to say that you follow Christ. (Or somewhere on those lines) so was this just a public display that God wanted the people or at least John to see? And to hear? Or was the spirit of God not with him until this point?
Click to expand...
Because Jesus was showing us how to recieve the Holy Spirit. Water is symbolic of the word of God. We receive the Holy Spirit by being immersed in the word.
 
Devonmcknight68

Devonmcknight68

Senior Member
#6
Jan 9, 2016
241
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#6
oldhermit said:
By oldhermit

VI. John's Testimony Concerning Jesus, 29-34

The baptism of Jesus has already occurred. John relates to event after the fact.

A. The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! This is He on behalf of whom I said, after me comes a Man who has a higher in rank than I, for He existed before me.”
This is not rank of office, this is rank of being. Jesus is the Creator, John is the creature.
B. “I did not recognize Him.” In other words Jesus had not yet been revealed to him or to anyone else as the Lamb of God. From the vantage point of human experience, there was nothing in the physics or the physiology of Jesus by which John could have recognized him as the Lamb of God. This had to be revealed by the testimony of heaven itself.
C. “But so that He might be manifested to Israel, I came baptizing in water.” This establishes the context for the purpose of the baptism of Jesus. John's baptism was for repentance unto the remission of sin. Since Jesus has no sin and nothing of which to repent, why did he submit to John's baptism? The reason is two-fold.

1. As an act of obedience – “To fulfill all righteousness.” Notice in Matthew 3:15, Jesus did not say it behooves ME to fulfill all righteousness but, “It behooves US to fulfill all righteousness.” The 'us' is all men. Baptism as an act of obedience to the will of God then is an act of righteousness. Jesus did it because God had sent John to teach and baptize the people of Israel. Jesus is a son of Israel and is thus bound to the divine precepts imposed upon the people. He is fulfilling the Law of God.
2. “That He might be manifested to Israel.” This was done in the three-fold theophonic manifestation.

D. “John testified saying, 'I have seen the Spirit descending as a dove out of heaven, and He remained upon Him. I did not recognize Him, but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the One who baptizes in the Holy Spirit. I myself have seen, and have testified that this is the Son of God.'”
The divine triad is represented by Jesus who came down from heaven now standing in the flesh as part of the material world. We see the Holy Spirit himself coming down out of heaven assuming a bodily for like that of a dove thus linking the two worlds (This is the only time the Holy Spirit has ever been described as assuming any type of physical form); And the voice of the Father from heaven declaring Jesus as the Son of God. This is indeed a unique event that has no parallel. In this event we find the ONLY time all three members of the triadic unity are present in a single manifestation. It never seems to have occurred before and has not occurred since.
Click to expand...
Wow what a blessing it is to have you here in the forums, thank you for that and for other post you have answered for me. Praise God and thank you for your wisdom. :)
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

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Sep 4, 2012
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Baptism as a public display is essentially and evangelical invention. Earliest church fathers wrote that it was where the new birth took place (and Paul seems to as well in Romans 6).

I think that Christ got baptized after the pattern in the law in which the high priest first bathed in water and then was anointed with oil. Christ was first immersed in water by John, a Levite priest, then he was anointed with the holy spirit by GOD to 'fulfill all righteousness' as he told John. In reading the verses below, notice that Christ was baptized at the 'door' of heaven like the high priest was commissioned at the door of the tabernacle.

And Aaron and his sons thou shalt bring unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and shalt wash them with water. ... Then shalt thou take the anointing oil, and pour [it] upon his head, and anoint him. Exodus 29:4, 7

​Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to John in order to be baptized by him. But John tried to prevent him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?” But Jesus answered [and] said to him, “Permit [it] now, for in this way it is right for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he permitted him. Now [after he] was baptized, Jesus immediately went up from the water, and behold, the heavens opened to him and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming upon him. And behold, [there was] a voice from heaven saying, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.” Matthew 3:13-17​

So in essence, water baptism seems to be following this same pattern of being washed by a 'priest' (baptized into forgiveness of sins in the name, i.e., authority, of Christ), then anointed by GOD (receive the holy spirit). We are all priests in the new covenant.
 
P

PilgrimPassingThru

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Feb 11, 2016
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HeRoseFromTheDead said:
Great graphic. HRFTD likes it too.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I worked hard on it, I thought he might be harder to argue with and I could agree with him without saying so much myself and he would be harder to disagree with or something

(I feel less alone) :p
 
Magenta

Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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Jesus does not say water baptism saves. He saves through baptizing us with the fire of the Holy Spirit; call it our spiritual rebirth, and Jesus said we needed to be born again of the Spirit, for the flesh counts for nothing and will not enter the kingdom, for His is not a kingdom of this world. How any Christian can deny that and think it is water baptism that saves us really puzzles me.
 
P

PilgrimPassingThru

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Mat 3:11I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Mat 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

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Sep 4, 2012
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Magenta said:
Jesus does not say water baptism saves. He saves through baptizing us with the fire of the Holy Spirit; call it our spiritual rebirth, and Jesus said we needed to be born again of the Spirit, for the flesh counts for nothing and will not enter the kingdom, for His is not a kingdom of this world. How any Christian can deny that and think it is water baptism that saves us really puzzles me.
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But if GOD mandated that regeneration happen in water baptism, then that's the way it is.
 
O

oldethennew

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Feb 28, 2016
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our hearts should always be willing to follow all of Christ's patterns that He performed for us,
after all, He did them out of Love....
 
Magenta

Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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HeRoseFromTheDead said:
But if GOD mandated that regeneration happen in water baptism, then that's the way it is.
Click to expand...
God mandated regeneration through His sinless Son Who gave His life that His righteous blood would pay the sin debt, that when we repent and believe on Him He would administer the Holy Spirit of God to spiritually regenerate us that we can then become inheritors of the kingdom of God, which is not of this world nor attained through being dunked in water. All of Scripture attests to our need of this regeneration and spiritual rebirth. Jesus baptizes us with the fire of the Spirit, the Holy Spirit of God. In all four gospels John the Baptist attested to this fact.
 
V

valiant

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#19
Mar 22, 2015
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#19
The men in Acts 19 had been baptised into the baptism of John. Paul makes quite clear that it was a different baptism for a different reason. So they had to be given Christian baptism.

John's baptism and Jesus baptism are two different things.

were the Apostles baptised with Christian baptism?
 
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Zmouth

Zmouth

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Nov 21, 2012
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So why was Jesus bound and taken over into Jordan by Ananias and his son-in-law to be baptized?

The answer might explain why Jesus would later would response to the chief priests that confronted him regarding his authority to to be there in the temple with the question about the baptism; specifically whether the baptism of John was from heaven or of men?

Then again, does anyone have a plausible explanation why Roman soldiers be present at the baptism of the multitude as reflected by scriptures since they served under their god Emperor Tiberius Caesar Divi Augusti filius Augustus, which divi filius in Latin represents Tiberius' being deified as the son of God?






 
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