How do you think about death penalty

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Dutch41

Guest
#1
#1
I remember an discussion when I was on Bible School, about the death penalty...And I remember the different thought what we as Christian got. The prof. was convinced about this punishment, that it could work for today. But there was a lot of resistant about this.

In the Bible the Lord order by some sin's the death penalty.Like murder (Ex 20:12) kidnapping ((Ex 21:6), bestiality (Ex 22:19), adultery (Lev20:13), being a false prophet (Dt 13:5) and prostitution and raping (Dt 22:5)

The question is: How can we handle with this punishment now.... because here in Europe we don't have the death penalty any more.

Do we have to go back to the death penalty,.. or is that a passed station, because with the death of Jesus it is gone (Rom 5:8)

How do you think about this subject?
 
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Slepsog4

Guest
#2
#2
The death penalty predated the Law of Moses and so in principle it has not been removed. There are moral issues that stand without the Mosaic Code.

Romans 1:18-32 also mentions that death is a worthy penalty for some things. Romans 13:1-7 seems to indicate that the government has the authority to exact just punishment that can include the death penalty.
 
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lighthousejohn

Guest
#3
#3
Dutch41 said:
I remember an discussion when I was on Bible School, about the death penalty...And I remember the different thought what we as Christian got. The prof. was convinced about this punishment, that it could work for today. But there was a lot of resistant about this.

In the Bible the Lord order by some sin's the death penalty.Like murder (Ex 20:12) kidnapping ((Ex 21:6), bestiality (Ex 22:19), adultery (Lev20:13), being a false prophet (Dt 13:5) and prostitution and raping (Dt 22:5)

The question is: How can we handle with this punishment now.... because here in Europe we don't have the death penalty any more.

Do we have to go back to the death penalty,.. or is that a passed station, because with the death of Jesus it is gone (Rom 5:8)

How do you think about this subject?
Click to expand...
As a Chritian Pastor, I believe the death penalty is a valid application of God's laws. I am fully capable of offering forgiveness to one who has harmed me or my family or society in general. Having said that, I believe that they are still accounable to God' law for their ultimate judgement and to man's law for their worldly judgement.

People say that the death penalty is not a deterrent to crime. I disagree with this viewpoint. If someone knows that he may be put to death for his crime, then I believe it will give him pause to consider the consequences of his pending action.

I believe that the taking of a life in certain circumstances demands the taking of a life. It will never be a fair exchange of a guilty life for an innocent life but it is the only parity we can demand. There is no justice if the guilty person is allowed to live out their days in prison when the innocent life was not allowed the same opportunity.

Unfortunately for today, at least in the state of California, there are 648 people on death row and only 13 have been put to death since 1976. The cause of this is the endless number of appeals allowed in California. These appeals draw out the process and the death penalty ends up being life without parole.
 
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livingbygrace

Banned
#4
Dec 19, 2009
2,723
7
0
#4
What concerns me about the death penalty is that innocent people have been put to death.
I remember the infamous case of John Christie in England in the forties I think.

A man called Timothy Evans was hung for a murder it was later accepted Christie committed. This is the only reason I do not agree with the death penalty. Innocent people at times die because no system is perfect and infallible
 
dane

dane

Banned
#5
Feb 9, 2010
27
0
0
#5
Dutch41 said:
I remember an discussion when I was on Bible School, about the death penalty...And I remember the different thought what we as Christian got. The prof. was convinced about this punishment, that it could work for today. But there was a lot of resistant about this.

In the Bible the Lord order by some sin's the death penalty.Like murder (Ex 20:12) kidnapping ((Ex 21:6), bestiality (Ex 22:19), adultery (Lev20:13), being a false prophet (Dt 13:5) and prostitution and raping (Dt 22:5)

The question is: How can we handle with this punishment now.... because here in Europe we don't have the death penalty any more.

Do we have to go back to the death penalty,.. or is that a passed station, because with the death of Jesus it is gone (Rom 5:8)

How do you think about this subject?
Click to expand...
ok so we have the right to murder people - that murder people. makes no sense at all, you're just sinking to their level.

"you shall not murder." one of the ten commandments. does it say "you shall not murder, unless some guy kills one in your family, then you can murder him."? no, there are NO exceptions!

John 15:9 "As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love. 11I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. 14You are my friends if you do what I command. 15I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master's business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. 16You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit—fruit that will last. Then the Father will give you whatever you ask in my name. 17This is my command: Love each other.

matthews 5:21-26. "You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' 22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brotherwill be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,[c]' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.
23"Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift.

25"Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still with him on the way, or he may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. 26I tell you the truth, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny

Jesus himself saves a woman who is about to be stoned. "let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

are any of you without sin?
 
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NodMyHeadLikeYeah

Guest
#6
#6
dane said:
ok so we have the right to murder people - that murder people. makes no sense at all, you're just sinking to their level.

"you shall not murder." one of the ten commandments. does it say "you shall not murder, unless some guy kills one in your family, then you can murder him."? no, there are NO exceptions!

John 15:9 "As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love. 11I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. 14You are my friends if you do what I command. 15I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master's business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. 16You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit—fruit that will last. Then the Father will give you whatever you ask in my name. 17This is my command: Love each other.

matthews 5:21-26. "You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' 22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brotherwill be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,[c]' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.
23"Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift.

25"Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still with him on the way, or he may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. 26I tell you the truth, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny

Jesus himself saves a woman who is about to be stoned. "let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

are any of you without sin?
Click to expand...


so then should we just let people go on killing??? what type of punishment then is it you recommend?? You think they should sit in jail, get an education, watch t.v. surf the internet, i mean that is what jail is now days. I have to pay thousands of dollars for an education when i could just go kill someone get put in jail and get it for free!

What is to stop someone from killing if there is no great punishment??
 
dane

dane

Banned
#7
Feb 9, 2010
27
0
0
#7
NodMyHeadLikeYeah said:
so then should we just let people go on killing??? what type of punishment then is it you recommend?? You think they should sit in jail, get an education, watch t.v. surf the internet, i mean that is what jail is now days. I have to pay thousands of dollars for an education when i could just go kill someone get put in jail and get it for free!

What is to stop someone from killing if there is no great punishment??
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what has your way of treating prisoners anything to do with what I just wrote? letting prisoners take an education is a good thing, it might lead them on the right path. I don't know why you let them watch tv and all that other stuff, but it is YOUR system that is messed up, don't use it as an excuse to kill people..!
 
phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#8
Feb 12, 2009
8,260
2,111
113
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#8
livingbygrace said:
What concerns me about the death penalty is that innocent people have been put to death.
I remember the infamous case of John Christie in England in the forties I think.

A man called Timothy Evans was hung for a murder it was later accepted Christie committed. This is the only reason I do not agree with the death penalty. Innocent people at times die because no system is perfect and infallible
Click to expand...

I' m the same livingbygrace. to many innocent peple have been unjustly executed.

I not in favour of the death penalty.

Phil
 
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Dutch41

Guest
#9
#9
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Well for meit is an interesting discussion..[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Because I can feel in both sides. And I am looking deep in my hart: I understand people who are for the death penalty, on Biblical ground... Because I know, the Word is clear about that... [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]But here is my own problem: Because I know, when the Lord told about the death punishment it was for His people, it has to be a holy nation. And when I looked at the story of the adultery women (Jh 7) And the reaction.. of Jesus.. Well I think we are all guilty.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Livingbygrace
[/FONT]Innocent people at times die because no system is perfect and infallible [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
Click to expand...
[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Well this an other problem for me.. I know,.. when some is killed.. there is no return. And if he is actually not guilty... we murder a person.. [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]And if I compare this with the OT about adultery.. and the man didn't know for sure.. he went to the priest.. and she got a drink what is cursed .. and when there was nothing happen she was unguilty..[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]But when she is guilty the drink is like poisen and she would be killed.. (Num 5)[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]So there was a kind of Devine intervention.... Because we can our sins hidden from the Lord.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]And what Livingbygrace said.. I agree with that fully. [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Because there is no return.. and our judgment got not based on God, but on human thinking.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]And with that... I don't think the death penalty is right... (But in this case... I understand why people agree with it)[/FONT]
 
J

Jordan9

Guest
#10
#10
I'm strongly against the death penalty in civilized, democratic states. Other, more volatile states might need to do it if the jails aren't reliable and so forth, but otherwise, I think it is unacceptable. For me, my opposition to the death penalty is a component of my overall pro-life views. Consistent Ethic of human life, seamless garment, etc.
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

Banned
#13
Dec 19, 2009
27,513
128
0
71
#13
Dutch41 said:
Why are you against the death penalty?
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Jesus told us we had to forgive. I have no problem with people killing in self-defense, or in the defense of those they care about, but what purpose is served by executing a person? Isn’t it hypocritical for the government to tell us it’s wrong to kill, while they turn around and execute people? People will argue “an eye for an eye,” but Jesus said this:

[38] "You have heard that it was said, `An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.'
[39] But I say to you, Do not resist one who is evil. But if any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also;
[40] and if any one would sue you and take your coat, let him have your cloak as well;
[41] and if any one forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Matt 5:38-41 RSV
Click to expand...
 
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Consumed

Guest
#14
#14
if thats the case we are all deserving the death penalty, we are all guilty to start with, who are we to take a life regardless. wouldnt it be a surprise gettin to heaven, walking round the cnr of a gold paved street staright into say eg ted bundy,adolf hitler,,,,,,,, who knows what they spoke those last moments, asking for forgiveness, what, you think Jesus would deny them that. Thats why we dont say whos going to heaven nor hell i beleive. But to take a life for a life is revenge............. empathy not apathy
 
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NodMyHeadLikeYeah

Guest
#15
#15
dane said:
what has your way of treating prisoners anything to do with what I just wrote? letting prisoners take an education is a good thing, it might lead them on the right path. I don't know why you let them watch tv and all that other stuff, but it is YOUR system that is messed up, don't use it as an excuse to kill people..!
Click to expand...

Im sorry, who are you?? Dane is it?? well DANE, The way you treat a prisoner in jail has to do with everything.

Like i said, if their is no great punishment for a crime committed whats to stop someone from committing crimes?? I think if you kill someone you deserve to die. I think the punishment should match the crime.
 
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Dutch41

Guest
#16
#16
NodMyHeadLikeYeah said:
Im sorry, who are you?? Dane is it?? well DANE, The way you treat a prisoner in jail has to do with everything.

Like i said, if their is no great punishment for a crime committed whats to stop someone from committing crimes?? I think if you kill someone you deserve to die. I think the punishment should match the crime.
Click to expand...
Well I can imagine that it felt if it match the crime.. But there is more.. We Christians have to forgive the offender. When he is dead, we can't forgive any more..

And is it true that it feel better if the man is dead?
 
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mpaper345

Banned
#17
Feb 9, 2010
2,486
39
0
#17
A Christian is to love their enemies,feed and clothe their enemies.

Jesus said be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.

A Christian is always supposed to be against the death penalty for we should not wish harm upon anybody.

If they do not repent they will have judgment from God.
The LORD said vengeance is mine I will repay.

3For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil(Romans 13:3-4).

God said do not go against the government for a government can only be in operation if God allows it.If you go against the government God said you are going against Him.

These people are people of the world that execute wrath upon the evil doers but they will pay for their wrongful ways in the end if they do not repent.

God used Babylon to go against His people the Jews because of their disobedience but then punished Babylon for going against the Jews.

God said that the government is a minister of God to go against the evil doers but they will pay afterward if they do not repent of their wrongful ways.

A Christian is always to be against the death penalty but God uses the world to go against the evil doers which means God allows it but will punish them in the end if they had done harm to anybody if they do not repent wanting to do good as Jesus which is being harmless.

Matt
 
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Dutch41

Guest
#18
#18
mpaper345 said:
A Christian is to love their enemies,feed and clothe their enemies.

Jesus said be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.

A Christian is always supposed to be against the death penalty for we should not wish harm upon anybody.

If they do not repent they will have judgment from God.
The LORD said vengeance is mine I will repay.

3For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil(Romans 13:3-4).

God said do not go against the government for a government can only be in operation if God allows it.If you go against the government God said you are going against Him.

These people are people of the world that execute wrath upon the evil doers but they will pay for their wrongful ways in the end if they do not repent.

God used Babylon to go against His people the Jews because of their disobedience but then punished Babylon for going against the Jews.

God said that the government is a minister of God to go against the evil doers but they will pay afterward if they do not repent of their wrongful ways.

A Christian is always to be against the death penalty but God uses the world to go against the evil doers which means God allows it but will punish them in the end if they had done harm to anybody if they do not repent wanting to do good as Jesus which is being harmless.

Matt
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Oke.. But if I am correct.. Paul neither John, Peter , Jakob, Judas and even Jesus... didn't say:
The death penalty is over. Even if I read Act 5 or 1Cor 11 I read the judge of the Lord...
is the death.

Remember, all of them used the OT... and the first Christians used the OT... Paul say even: we have to obey or government and his laws...
 
dane

dane

Banned
#19
Feb 9, 2010
27
0
0
#19
NodMyHeadLikeYeah said:
Im sorry, who are you?? Dane is it?? well DANE, The way you treat a prisoner in jail has to do with everything.

Like i said, if their is no great punishment for a crime committed whats to stop someone from committing crimes?? I think if you kill someone you deserve to die. I think the punishment should match the crime.
Click to expand...
yeah but then treat your prisoners worse if you want, NOD! I'm just gonna call you nutty from now on.. :p

take away some of their priveliges, that shouldnt be too difficult since they have so many.

Dutch: it's like you haven't read a word that has been written in here. christianity is about forgiveness, not revenge! it's so weird that christians tries to justify death penalty when it is crystal clear that it's not the way to handle things anymore.

this is what the OT say:
exodus 21:24 "eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,"

this is what the NW say:
Luke: 6:29 "To one who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also, and from one who takes away your cloak do not withhold your tunic either."

murder is an act of violence, it is evil, no matter what the person has done.
 
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