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ladylynn

Guest
FORSAKEN AT 55 MILES PER HOUR (Jeff Turner)
Did Sin Separate Man From God?

“Man can certainly flee from God... but he cannot change into its opposite the eternal love of God which triumphs even in his hate.” -Karl Barth (1886-1968)

Steve and Pam were a happily married couple of more than ten years. After trying unsuccessfully to have children for the first few years of their marriage, their doctor confirmed their heart breaking suspicions that they were unable to do so. And so, after some time had passed, they began looking into the option of adopting. Several months of scouring through material, consulting with other adoptive parents, and talking amongst themselves passed, and they finally came to the conclusion that it was the right thing for them.

They’d decided that they would not adopt a baby, but an older child, out of foster care, and particularly, one who had been the victim of very rough circumstances. They finally decided upon a young man named Adam, who was ten years old, and had formerly lived with his now deceased, drug addicted mother. His father had never been a part of his life, and had left his mother sometime during her pregnancy. Adam grew up in an environment that was rife with instability, violence, and drug and alcohol abuse. Young Adam had also suffered all sorts of abuse at the hands of his mother and her various “house guests”, and had more than a few scars scraped into his vulnerable, young psyche.

Knowing Adam’s history, Steve and Pam, prior to the adoption, acknowledged the fact that there might come a day when Adam exhibited some extreme and rebellious behavior. They went into the adoption knowing the severity of his former living situation, and preemptively discussed the problems and issues that might arise as a result. In fact, they went into it not thinking that he might go through a rebellious phase, but as if it were a given. However, they agreed to love him regardless, accept him as he was, and raise him as their own.

As anticipated, after having reached the hormonal age of thirteen, Adam began to rebel. He frequently indulged in many of the very behaviors that had ended his mother’s life, and could be found hanging out in environments much like the one from which he had been rescued. This is precisely what Steve and Pam had prepared themselves for, and they’d even preemptively planned on how they would bring loving discipline into young Adam’s life in these situations. The last thing that they had wanted to do was to further scar the boy by heaping guilt and shame upon him. However, when push came to shove, and Adam actually began to rebel and misbehave, it was as though the couple had forgotten all about their prior parenting plans.

Steve and Pam called a family meeting and sat Adam down to discuss the situation with him. The boy sat feeling ashamed and expecting the worst. After all, his past experiences of mental and physical abuse had trained him to expect the least and the worst from authority figures. However, such loving, understanding parents as Steve and Pam would certainly not treat him in the harsh and abusive ways with which he had grown accustomed, right? Steve looked down at an already distressed and disheartened Adam, and spoke to him sternly, “You have brought shame and disgrace upon this family and have dishonored my name. As a just and honorable man, I simply cannot continue calling you my son. As of this day, I am stripping my name from you, and am taking away your inheritance. Our family is no longer your family. You see, Adam, I am just too good of a man to be the father of a misbehaving miscreant such as yourself. Our natures are simply no longer compatible.”

“Not only am I stripping you of the privileges of sonship and our family’s name, I also forbid you from ever entering this home again. You are no longer welcome here. As an upright man, I simply cannot care or provide for such a wretch as you.”

Steve continued,
“In addition to this, I hereby strip you of the right to fellowship with either myself, or the woman that you once called mother. You are not our son, and you may not speak to us as though you are. You may refer to me as ‘sir’, and to my wife as ‘ma’am’. For not only has the nature of our relationship changed, the relationship itself will, from this moment forth, cease to be. But regardless of what you choose to call us in your depraved imagination, we’re not listening.”

“We have spoken to the courts, and have had a restraining order placed upon you. At the conclusion of this conversation, you are forbidden to be within one thousand miles of us. If you ever happen to find yourself within sight range of us, it will mean terrible things for you. Our relationship is severed, over, and done with! From this moment forth, we will speak to you no longer. Your days as an orphaned, unloved wretch begin now, as we hereby separate ourselves from you! Do you understand me, ‘orphan’?”

Could you imagine that broken, defeated young man, shuddering and weeping as he listened to all of this? Can you see the anguished and pained look spread across his face? How could this child ever possibly recover from such horrendous treatment by those whom he had once called father and mother? Truth be told, he probably never would. The memories of that moment would haunt his conscious and unconscious mind forever. He’d never feel complete, loved or secure again. Such an event would undoubtedly devastate him, possibly even irrevocably so.

What happened to good old, compassionate Steve and Pam? What happened to those adoptive parents who’d had foresight enough to prepare to deal lovingly with Adam’s rebellion, long before it ever occurred? What happened to their paternal and maternal instincts when faced with that which they had already foreseen? The cold, irrational and schizophrenic behavior which they displayed in that cruelest of moments is enough to sicken even the worst of parents.

Now, if the tale of Steve and Pam sounds slightly fantastical, and a bit too-bad-to be-true, it’s because it is. However, as ridiculous, cruel and irrational as Steve and Pam’s behavior was, many Christians would have us to believe that the eternal Godhead behaved in a very similar way in the wake of Adam’s fall.

There is a widespread, almost ubiquitous idea that has embedded itself into the very fabric of all things Evangelical, and it is the thought that sin brought separation between man and God. We have an image in our minds of God being flabbergasted, and offended beyond words by Adam and Eve’s actions. He had given them one simple prohibition, “don’t eat from that tree”, but for some reason, they couldn’t even obey that one simple command! As a result, God became enraged, and in His righteous fury, banished man from His presence. After all, God is holy, and now, because of his evil actions, man was not. God and man became like oil and water, and just wouldn’t mix.

Right..?


That is a horrible story and for many people it is a true one. I wept reading it because it touches memories deep inside me that my own parents did that are a real part of what makes me ..me. Some rejections just "are" and we have no choice but to acknowledge they were done to us by those we should have had love from.

Healing comes in part with time, but time and real healing comes from Jesus. He is the Great Physician, the Good Shepherd that will lead us to and beside the peaceful still waters. Out of the deep hurts.

And this is not for only when we die but especially for now. He wants us to walk in belief and faith in His promises. Psalm 23 is for us today not for when we are dead and people come to the funeral and Psalm 23 is read.

The Lord is our Shepherd now, today. He is for real and for right now.

[SUP]1 [/SUP]The Lord is my Shepherd [to feed, guide, and shield me], I shall not lack.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]He makes me lie down in [fresh, tender] green pastures; He leads me beside the still and restful waters.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]He refreshes and restores my life (my self); He leads me in the paths of righteousness [uprightness and right standing with Him—not for my earning it, but] for His name’s sake.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Yes, though I walk through the [deep, sunless] valley of the shadow of death, I will fear or dread no evil, for You are with me; Your rod [to protect] and Your staff [to guide], they comfort me.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies. You anoint my head with [SUP][a][/SUP]oil; my [brimming] cup runs over.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Surely or only goodness, mercy, and unfailing love shall follow me all the days of my life, and through the length of my days the house of the Lord [and His presence] shall be my dwelling place.







 
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It is He's grace that Leads us to repentance (Romans 2:4) which is regretting our sins and becoming obedient to the law statutes and commandments(1 John 3:4). Jesus is our salvation and He is saving those who believe in him from their sins (Matt 1:21), which is transgression of the law (1 john 3:4). When we receive Jesus Christ as our personal Saviour we do it solely upon belief by the answer towards God out of a good conscience (1 Peter 3:21). Does this mean we are no longer supposed to live a life in accordance with the righteous laws and judgments of God ? God forbid, but rather that we establish the law and walk in obedience to it (Romans 3:31). Now if we choose to be willfully ignorant of our Saviour and continue to live in transgression of He's will and divine instructions then we will loose our reward and we show ourself to be trampling the grace of God under our feet (Hebrews 10:26-29).

Consider those who followed Christ and did not choose to keep He's laws: (Matt 7:21-23).

Also consider the parable of the ten virgins.

Matthew 25:


The Parable of the Ten Virgins 1Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. 2And five of them were wise, and fivewere foolish. 3They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: 4But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. 6And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. 7Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. 8And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. 9But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. 10And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. 11Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. 12But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. 13Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.


Psalms 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Psalms 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Proverbs 10:8 The wise in heart will receive commandments: but a prating fool shall fall.
Proverbs 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:
Proverbs 23:23 Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.
Psalms 119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.
Proverbs 21:20 There is treasure to be desired and oil in the dwelling of the wise;
but a foolish man spendeth it up.
Proverbs 29:3 Whoso loveth wisdom rejoiceth his father:
buthe that keepeth company with harlots spendeth his substance.


Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.22On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’23And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Clearly those teaching we are only to rely upon Christs obedience are wrong and they are teaching a form of "hyper grace" doctrine which teaches people they don't have to strive for perfection by learning the commandments of the Torah by being obedient to the Words of Jesus Christ (Matt 5:48, Matt 19:21, Luke 6:40, Luke 8:14, John 17:23, Rom 12:2, 1 Corin 1:10, 1 Corin 2:6, 2 Corin 7:1, 2 Corin 13:9, 2 Corin 13:11, Eph 4:12-13, Phil 3:15, Col 1:28, Col 3:14, Col 4:12, 1 Thess 3:10, 2 Tim 3:17, Heb 6:1, Heb 10:14, Heb 12:23, Heb 13:21, James 1:4, James 1:25, James 2:22, James 3:2, 1 Peter 5:10, 1 John 2:5, 1 John 4:12, 1 John 4:17-18, Rev 2:3).
 
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ladylynn

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Not surprising. I've slipped into a deep depression for the past two months. Part of this feeling is just not feeling like I'm able to do whatever It is God wants. Maybe because He hasn't told me what it is He wants. But I've realized turning to Him and asking Him what He wants from me only to not hear a direct answer, that hasn't helped me any. I shouldn't have to feel like complete crap on a daily basis or have to struggle just to make it through the day without having a mental breakdown just to have a relationship with God. That's not a way to live a life.


Hi jsr1221, That was the kind of relationship I had with God and people some years ago for a long time. Depression is an odd thing and many different reasons for it. One way I have dealt with it is first and foremost I read the Bible and listen to good preaching and teaching and not my feelings.

Feelings come and go and we do not have to "own" them. Feelings can occur based on something as odd and unimportant as eating junk food or not eating at all and sugar levels are too high or low. There are tooooo many reasons for feelings and emotions so the Bible tells us to learn about Jesus and He will direct our paths in life. It's a promise and a daily walk.


The idea of having to have a mental breakdown just to have a relationship with God is not from God. The enemy of our souls has a great time messing with our emotions and blaming God for things God has nothing to do with.

The Bible has instructed us how to deal with the enemy...(Resist) Resist the devil and he will flee from you. Resist his condemnation because condemnation does not come from God to the believer. We have been given the gift of no condemnation. Hebrews 10:17 "Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more." God is saying "Your sins I will by no means ever remember"

Don't receive condemnation or rejection as coming from God because it is not from Him. The good news is as we go to the Bible and ask the Holy Spirit to teach us., He will instruct on how to cast down those confusing imaginations that keep us falling into depressions. He promises to show us a new and living way.


I learned that those thoughts are imaginations that "exhalt themselves up against the knowledge of God" just like that verse in the Bible says.,and we don't have to receive them. It's our choice to reject those wrong thoughts and receive instead the truth. If you have accepted Jesus as your Savior He promises to lead you out of wrong thinking. And He leads us out daily. You are not alone Jsr1221.

Jesus leads me out of wrong thinking every day! Wrong thinking confronts everyone and some have learned to distinguish what is from God and what is not from Him. Takes time but He promises to teach us how.

 

fredoheaven

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Nov 17, 2015
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It is He's grace that Leads us to repentance (Romans 2:4) which is regretting our sins and becoming obedient to the law statutes and commandments(1 John 3:4). Jesus is our salvation and He is saving those who believe in him from their sins (Matt 1:21), which is transgression of the law (1 john 3:4). When we receive Jesus Christ as our personal Saviour we do it solely upon belief by the answer towards God out of a good conscience (1 Peter 3:21). Does this mean we are no longer supposed to live a life in accordance with the righteous laws and judgments of God ? God forbid, but rather that we establish the law and walk in obedience to it (Romans 3:31). Now if we choose to be willfully ignorant of our Saviour and continue to live in transgression of He's will and divine instructions then we will loose our reward and we show ourself to be trampling the grace of God under our feet (Hebrews 10:26-29).

Clearly those teaching we are only to rely upon Christs obedience are wrong and they are teaching a form of "hyper grace" doctrine which teaches people they don't have to strive for perfection by learning the commandments of the Torah by being obedient to the Words of Jesus Christ (Matt 5:48, Matt 19:21, Luke 6:40, Luke 8:14, John 17:23, Rom 12:2, 1 Corin 1:10, 1 Corin 2:6, 2 Corin 7:1, 2 Corin 13:9, 2 Corin 13:11, Eph 4:12-13, Phil 3:15, Col 1:28, Col 3:14, Col 4:12, 1 Thess 3:10, 2 Tim 3:17, Heb 6:1, Heb 10:14, Heb 12:23, Heb 13:21, James 1:4, James 1:25, James 2:22, James 3:2, 1 Peter 5:10, 1 John 2:5, 1 John 4:12, 1 John 4:17-18, Rev 2:3).
Just a few notes on your post and let's simplify

Jesus alone saves!

"Jesus is our salvation and He is saving those who believe in him from their sins (Matt 1:21)"

Here's the simplification:

Jesus Saves and He saved those who believe in Him from their sins....:)
 
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ladylynn

Guest
This is my testimony of the fruit of what the gospel of the grace of Christ has done in my life and in understanding that we are the righteousness of God in Christ because of what He did - not what we did or do:

If you consider this bad fruit..well..so be it...I will let I lie as it stands...:)

I have a great passion for Christ!..here is what knowing Him because of the revelation of the gospel of the grace of Christ has done for me.

I was praying one morning and thinking about how the grace of Christ has affected me. I had the scripture come up in my spirit where the Pharisees were arguing about whether a man was born blind or not after Jesus healed him. Of course the Pharisees were trying to discredit the message of Jesus. The man said.." All I know is that I was born blind but now I see."

This is what the gospel of the grace of Christ has done in my life:

I realize that these beliefs in the grace of God....especially the acceptance grace and the total forgiveness that Jesus bought and paid for with His blood....that these can be offensive to our religious beliefs and what we have been taught in church. ( they were initially to me as well )

This gospel of the wondrous grace of Christ has had a beautiful affect on me. I am more in love with Jesus and the Father more then ever....in love with studying His word....praying in the spirit constantly with a heart full of joy!

This gospel has given me a compassion for other people and to reach out in love to them. To give more than I ever have with a heart full of love.

To live a holier life in Him...to be a witness of the life and love of our Lord in me.

If these are the horrible fruit of the grace of Christ in me....I want more!.....give me more grace please my Lord and God!



I am living a much fuller life now, more deeply in love with Jesus and the Father then ever before or ever dreamed was possible and I am just starting.

I am free from the horrible religion of self-effort, having the love of God pour out in me to help others now that I understand the grace that is in Christ then I did when I was doing the self-performance based gospel ( which is not the gospel )

I was blind but now I see.
I see Jesus and His finished work for me!

It
will always be in eternity "Worthy is the Lamb"..

it will never be.."Worthy is the Lamb......and me..because I did my own D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness to help Jesus out"


It has always been about Jesus and Him alone and it will always remain that way for all eternity.



Amen. It is a wonderful thing to be set free from sin and self. To actually know you are loved and cared about by God Himself. The God of the universe is personal to us.
:confused: This is just too astounding for us to digest in it's entirety. It has to be taken in a revelation at a time for like..FOREVER!. :D

AND to help us, Jesus tells us that if we have seen Him we have seen the Father. Isn't that just so kind of Him!? To know "our frame" that we are such limited creatures and yet He loves us. And He gives us a picture of Himself by showing us His Son. And then He instructs us to learn of Him and in learning we will find rest for our souls.

And the rest for our souls in our salvation is a daily gift that keeps on giving. That even the angels desire to see but because they are not made in His image like us., they can't see what we see. The enemy wants man to be blind to this great salvation that has been 100% provided for by God to us.

Because it is so beautiful the enemy wants to blind the minds of them who believe not AND to those who know Him yet have not matured in Him. It's the glorious Gospel that brings reconciliation and deliverance.

 
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ladylynn

Guest
I couldn't agree more.

"Religion consists of all the things (believing, behaving, worshiping, sacrificing) the human race has ever thought it had to do to get right with God. About those things, Christianity has only two comments to make. The first is that none of them ever had the least chance of doing the trick: the blood of bulls and goats can never take away sins (see the Epistle to the Hebrews) and no effort of ours to keep the law of God can ever finally succeed (see the Epistle to the Romans). The second is that everything religion tried (and failed) to do has been perfectly done, once and for all, by Jesus in his death and resurrection. For Christians, therefore, the entire religion shop has been closed, boarded up, and forgotten. The church is not in the religion business. It never has been and it never will be, in spite of all the ecclesiastical turkeys through two thousand years who have acted as if religion was their stock in trade. The church, instead, is in the Gospel-proclaiming business. It is not here to bring the world the bad news that God will think kindly about us only after we have gone through certain creedal, liturgical and ethical wickets; it is here to bring the world the Good News that “while we were yet sinners, Christ died for the ungodly.” It is here, in short, for no religious purpose at all, only to announce the Gospel of free grace." -Robert F. Capon


Thank you for sharing that! Amen!!
 
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Just a few notes on your post and let's simplify

Jesus alone saves!

"Jesus is our salvation and He is saving those who believe in him from their sins (Matt 1:21)"

Here's the simplification:

Jesus Saves and He saved those who believe in Him from their sins....:)
Yes, after receiving Jesus Christ as our Saviour we are to let him save us from living a life in transgression by becoming obedient to the law and mature that we may have boldness in the day of judgment (1 John 4:17). This is the entire point of the post.
 
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Religion - the problem is people who do not fully know God God regarded as righteous or friends.
Cornelious was one. They had a desire to live a Godly life.

Now some here seem to hate this idea, and seem to believe their is no connection between behaviour, righteousness, love and care and Gods heart. Only the "saved" have the light switched on, the rest are just wrong.

It is obvious things are not this black and white, and God has a path for each person and it is a story line we walk, specific to us. It is this language of the way or the walk that I find fascinating.

Are you a sheep with a heart of love, or a goat, seeking to turn everything to your own advantage?
My granny was a sheep and she brought light into my life. It was because Jesus had brought light into hers.

Often what people mean by religion is an emotional expression of need, without necessarily understanding of an answer. And to most I would say, amen, until we acknowledge a need, we will never listen to the answer even it is right before us.

Jesus said He came not to bend or break anything, but bring good news. And the good news is God has opened the door, so you can walk in it.
 
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I take notice when I see people, like my family for instance, live their daily lives and going to church each Sunday. Then when you see them daily or at times at the store or playing ball how they actually like to socialize and say things that are not as good as they could be. My point is that it's not enough to just be going to church and sing and have listened to a sermon and then go on home just to be unaffected by that Sunday worship and absorb that into your life to be a better Christian. I know that just knowing of Jesus, even if you have been baptized or born again, isn't enough and that you must keep a relationship with him. I pray that people will become more involved with Jesus and become invested in his love where you will notice that you have become a lost sheep. I am not even sure if I am clear here or not but I know the difference of having Jesus in my life is an investment I take seriously and that I am not better than anyone but at least I will be able to pray to Him.

I am not enough and I cannot live alone without His absolute love in my life because I take notice of everything that God has created for me out of his absolute love. I want a better life for everyone it's very remarkable how life's blessings are in continual motion that we all know what we know without knowing and so many times I witness that we Christians do get thoughts that others do talk about. Amen brothers and sisters. Seek ye first the kingdom of God.
 
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This is post is not about how we receive Jesus Christ or how we are forgiven or justified, but about repentance and walking in newness of life being by obedient to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.


Paul taught all scripture is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction and for instruction in righteousness that the man of God may be perfect, and warned about those who are ever learning but are reprobate concerning the faith, and resist the truth:


2 Timothy 3:Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. 9But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.10But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, 11Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me. 12Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.13But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.14But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.


Paul believed in in all the law and in prophets:


Acts 24:13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.14But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers,believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:


Paul kept the sabbath:


Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
Acts 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.


Paul kept the Feasts and commanded to do so:


Acts 20:6And we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread, and came unto them to Troas in five days; where we abode seven days.


Acts 20:16 For Paul had determined to sail by Ephesus, because he would not spend the time in Asia: for he hasted, if it were possible for him, to be at Jerusalem the day of Pentecost.


1 Corinthians 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: 8Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavenedbread of sincerity and truth.


Paul stated we establish the Torah:


Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.


Paul taught from the Torah:


Acts 28:23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.


Paul Obeyed the Torah:


Acts 21:24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.


Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.


Paul took Delight in the Torah:


Romans 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:


Paul taught us to imitate him:


1 Corinthians 4:16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.


1 Corinthians 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.


Jesus told us to repent from our sins and obey the law:


Matthew 4:7 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.


Matthew 5:17-19 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.


Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.


Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.


Matthew 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.


Matthew 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:


Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


Jesus warned against hypocrisy:


Luke 12:1 In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.


Jesus warned those who believe in him but don't keep the law:


Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.22On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’23And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’


Jesus taught freedom from being a servant to sin:


John 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.


John 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.


Sin is transgression of the Law:


1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.


Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.


He that walks with Christ does not commit sin:


Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7For he that is dead is freed from sin.


1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.


1 John 3:2 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.


James 2:14-26 Faith, if it haws not works, is dead, being alone:


14What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.


18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.


Here is the solution when we sin and fall short:


1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Clearly the way of salvation is about obedience to the Father through the faith that is in Jesus Christ and by the remission of sins in He's name.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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Yes, after receiving Jesus Christ as our Saviour we are to let him save us from living a life in transgression by becoming obedient to the law and mature that we may have boldness in the day of judgment (1 John 4:17). This is the entire point of the post.
The simplified truth is after being saved and born again as you received Christ as Saviour, we are to grow in grace and in the knowledge of Christ by becoming obedient to His words.

2 Peter 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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This is post is not about how we receive Jesus Christ or how we are forgiven or justified, but about repentance and walking in newness of life being by obedient to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.


Paul taught all scripture is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction and for instruction in righteousness that the man of God may be perfect, and warned about those who are ever learning but are reprobate concerning the faith, and resist the truth:


2 Timothy 3:Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. 9But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.10But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, 11Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me. 12Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.13But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.14But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.


Paul believed in in all the law and in prophets:


Acts 24:13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.14But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers,believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:


Paul kept the sabbath:


Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
Acts 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.


Paul kept the Feasts and commanded to do so:


Acts 20:6And we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread, and came unto them to Troas in five days; where we abode seven days.


Acts 20:16 For Paul had determined to sail by Ephesus, because he would not spend the time in Asia: for he hasted, if it were possible for him, to be at Jerusalem the day of Pentecost.


1 Corinthians 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: 8Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavenedbread of sincerity and truth.


Paul stated we establish the Torah:


Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.


Paul taught from the Torah:


Acts 28:23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.


Paul Obeyed the Torah:


Acts 21:24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.


Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.


Paul took Delight in the Torah:


Romans 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:


Paul taught us to imitate him:


1 Corinthians 4:16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.


1 Corinthians 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.


Jesus told us to repent from our sins and obey the law:


Matthew 4:7 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.


Matthew 5:17-19 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.


Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.


Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.


Matthew 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.


Matthew 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:


Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


Jesus warned against hypocrisy:


Luke 12:1 In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.


Jesus warned those who believe in him but don't keep the law:


Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.22On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’23And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’


Jesus taught freedom from being a servant to sin:


John 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.


John 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.


Sin is transgression of the Law:


1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.


Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.


He that walks with Christ does not commit sin:


Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7For he that is dead is freed from sin.


1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.


1 John 3:2 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.


James 2:14-26 Faith, if it haws not works, is dead, being alone:


14What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.


18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.


Here is the solution when we sin and fall short:


1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Clearly the way of salvation is about obedience to the Father through the faith that is in Jesus Christ and by the remission of sins in He's name.
Let's simplify:

The Solution is Christ obeyed His Father and died for us.
We must repent and completely trust Christ for our salvation.

Acts 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, andfaith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
 
May 28, 2016
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Let's simplify:

The Solution is Christ obeyed His Father and died for us.
We must repent and completely trust Christ for our salvation.

Acts 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, andfaith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
Yes there we have it in short: Repent!. And believe Jesus Christ has died and resurrected for you and is able to atone for your sins!
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Well said...*thepsalmists*...I especially love your statement here..

Quote:

I think what happens sometimes is that after living for years under the notion of works that it is a hard transition for some to simply accept the gift of grace. As children of this world we are raised with the upbringing that says "be good, follow the rules and you will be rewarded". We often experience the way of the world before the way of God and so there is a putting off of our old way of thinking before we can fully accept the new way of thinking.


That is so true in many areas. It is really God too that grants us repentance to change our thinking to the truth of knowing Him.

Here is a grace-based teaching on "lukewarm"..I like using this site as he tackles obscure scriptures and there are comments on the bottom of the article where people ask questions. I sometimes learn just as much from them too..

https://escapetoreality.org/2015/07/24/are-you-lukewarm/


I really like Mark Ellis, his grace writings helped me recover from some false teachers in my life who often accused me of being
lukewarm, which they understood to be on "not on fire for the Lord" as in..... do not even go to Tim Horton's for coffee and if you should go there for a coffee you better preach to everyone while you are there to show you are fire for the Lord.

Really how on fire is being on fire? I never knew was I committed enough, on fire enough.

Here is another link which is similar to what Mark teaches, but a bit different approach.

The Myth of the Lukewarm Christian - Eric Pazdziora

Wow when I read this ... it just all made so much more sense.

Angela Lina
 
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Feb 7, 2015
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I really like Mark Ellis, his grace writings helped me recover from some false teachers in my life who often accused me of being
lukewarm, which they understood to be on "not on fire for the Lord" as in..... do not even go to Tim Horton's for coffee and if you should go there for a coffee you better preach to everyone while you are there to show you are fire for the Lord.

Really how on fire is being on fire? I never knew was I committed enough, on fire enough.

Here is another link which is similar to what Mark teaches, but a bit different approach.

The Myth of the Lukewarm Christian - Eric Pazdziora

Wow when I read this ... it just all made so much more sense.

Angela Lina
Your article doesn't really say it, but it comes close enough to what I feel is "LUKEWARM". And that is, trying to "combine" Grace & Law.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Your article doesn't really say it, but it comes close enough to what I feel is "LUKEWARM". And that is, trying to "combine" Grace & Law.
Amen...the mixture of law and grace is deadly to the true Christian life. The problem is that "law" shows up in many different forms and it is self-effort done in the flesh - trying to do "good " things. It's a subtle beast with all the trappings of being "spiritual" and Christian.

Jesus said the flesh profits nothing - only the Spirit brings life.

Abraham tried to fulfill the word of God to him and he created an Ishmael. God doesn't recognize what we do in our flesh even if it is "good" things. The Lord told Abraham "Take your son, your "only" son...".

We can rest in our Lord's completed work and rely on His life to manifest in and through us as He bears His fruit in us - the branches.
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
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Amen...the mixture of law and grace is deadly to the true Christian life. The problem is that "law" shows up in many different forms and it is self-effort done in the flesh - trying to do "good " things. It's a subtle beast with all the trappings of being "spiritual" and Christian.

Jesus said the flesh profits nothing - only the Spirit brings life.

Abraham tried to fulfill the word of God to him and he created an Ishmael. God doesn't recognize what we do in our flesh even if it is "good" things. The Lord told Abraham "Take your son, your "only" son...".

We can rest in our Lord's completed work and rely on His life to manifest in and through us as He bears His fruit in us - the branches.
I know your article said all that, but I added my little bit just in case some people didn't read that article.... yet.
 

Monnkai

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2014
2,740
690
113
This is the kind of silliness that is being perpetuated by people with no understanding of Christianity.


Which of the fruit of the Spirit is "live like the devil"??????


It hits home pretty hard. Those were my exact thoughts on life a few years ago. I think we all were like that at one point. It's amazing what a heart of flesh will do for ya. We go through a lot to get that new heart. Some much more than others. I lived a fairly tame life. Just a few obstacles with my Autism more mental anguish than anything. Sometimes I feel like I didn't earn this new heart, but then I remember no one has earned it. It's a gift.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Your article doesn't really say it, but it comes close enough to what I feel is "LUKEWARM". And that is, trying to "combine" Grace & Law.
Would you or Grace 777x70 have a good video link or website on obedience, or even to explain here on this thread.

I totally understand now the freedom from the law. Jesus was obedient and I am obedient to Jesus however how do we do this without again falling into that work and effort trap which in my own experience only entangles us again to the flesh.

I hope I am asking this right.

Thanks,
Angela Lina